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Docking a ship

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Docking a ship
Posted by 65 air cav vn on Friday, November 17, 2006 6:35 AM

I want to make a diorama of the USS Arizona and the Vestal. The question is- The Arizona is docked at her quays and the vestal is coming along side. Does the Vestal come along side herself or she helped by tugs? If so, how many tugs? Thank You ,Hank  SUPPORT THE TROOPS

 

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  • From: Spartanburg, SC
Posted by subfixer on Friday, November 17, 2006 7:14 AM
The Vestal would be assisted by tugs, (probably two YTBs and possibly a seamule or two). The Arizona would have line handlers to receive and secure the mooring lines being sent over by the Vestal.

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  • From: Mansfield, TX
Posted by EdGrune on Friday, November 17, 2006 4:52 PM

"The Last Mooring" by Tom Freeman should give you some ideas.  It depicts the final  mooring of the Arizona at Pearl, before the Vestal came alongside. 

Note the tug in the mid-distance.  Yard and district craft should have a black hull and Ocean Gray (5-O) upperworks.   Corsair Armada makes a 1:700 scale model of the USS Hoga, a tug who assisted several ships, including the Nevada on Dec 7.   Battlefleet Models makes several tugs and yardcraft , including YTL-17, lighter that was instrumental in fighting fires. 

Iron Shipwright makes a 1:350 scale model of the Hoga. 

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Posted by 65 air cav vn on Thursday, November 22, 2007 9:31 AM
 Would you please explain to me what a seamule is. Thank you  Hank  Support the troops  Garry Owen
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Posted by CG Bob on Thursday, November 22, 2007 10:06 AM

A seamule is a type of tug - similar to a river towboat.  It usually has a small pilothouse structure on it, and a pair of push knees on the bow. 

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  • From: Tucson, AZ
Posted by Archangel Shooter on Saturday, November 24, 2007 10:46 AM

Who makes a model of the Vestal and in what scales?

Scott

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 On the bench: So many hanger queens.

 

 

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Posted by 65 air cav vn on Saturday, November 24, 2007 11:57 AM

 You can find a nice resin model of USS Vestal AR4 (1941) at commander series models.  Hank  Support the troops  Garry owen

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Posted by 65 air cav vn on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 4:09 PM
Would someone please tell me know what the pilothouse on a seamule would look like?  Thanks Hank  Support the troops  Gary Owen
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  • From: Spartanburg, SC
Posted by subfixer on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 5:40 PM

It's essentially a metal box with windows and a door aft. It is taller than wide and large enough to house one or two occupants, a helm console (throttles and engine mounted gages here), compass binnacle (a small one, on top of the console), a radio mounted on the overhead (often, just a handheld walkie talkie) and a horn. There is often a small mast for navigation lights and a flag. I've seen a very few with a navigation radar.I found this picture showing a sea mule in the foreground. Its pilot house is a little larger than usual, but not too much. Actually, this is a pretty nice sea mule.

 

 

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Posted by 65 air cav vn on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 6:22 PM
This is my last question about the seamule. Where is the pilothouse located on the deck? Thanks  Hank  Support the troops  Gary Owen
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  • From: Spartanburg, SC
Posted by subfixer on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 6:33 PM

The pilot house is aft. Look at the photo above.

 

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Posted by 65 air cav vn on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 7:19 PM
My computer will not show your picture of the seamule all I get is a  little red x in a box. Thank you anyway Subfixer.  Hank  Support the troops  Gary Owen
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  • From: Spartanburg, SC
Posted by subfixer on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 7:21 PM

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Posted by CG Bob on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 12:46 AM

Here's a picture of a sea mule at the USCG yard - http://images.military.com/fp-photos/pix2/00375_s.jpg.  

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  • From: Carmel, CA
Posted by bondoman on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 4:23 AM
Going to be a well researched dio!!
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Posted by 65 air cav vn on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 7:56 AM
Thanks for the picture CGBob .  Hank  Support the troops   Gary Owen
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Posted by 65 air cav vn on Thursday, November 29, 2007 5:26 PM
What are the two round things on either side of the pilothouse?  Thanks  Hank  Support the troops  Gary Owen
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  • From: Mansfield, TX
Posted by EdGrune on Thursday, November 29, 2007 6:45 PM

 65 air cav vn wrote:
What are the two round things on either side of the pilothouse?  Thanks  Hank  Support the troops  Gary Owen

raised scuttles to the engine compartment

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Posted by CG Bob on Friday, November 30, 2007 12:51 AM
 EdGrune wrote:

 65 air cav vn wrote:
What are the two round things on either side of the pilothouse?  Thanks  Hank  Support the troops  Gary Owen

raised scuttles to the engine compartment

Wrong - there is a square hatch on the starboard side to access the engine space, just aft of the of the round item.  From their color and location, my first thought is engine room vents.
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  • From: Spartanburg, SC
Posted by subfixer on Friday, November 30, 2007 7:41 AM
For one thig, this mule is atypical, in that it is not your ordinary sea mule. It has a tow bar which, I imagine, would come in handy for the Coast Guard as they tow a lot of disabled boats. But this is definitely not a normal accessory on your normal everyday sea mule. The two capstan-like objects look more like escape scuttles mounted on access hatches. The smaller cylindrical objects do seem to be vents. If you want to depict a sea mule in the forties, I would not recommend this particular one to be a period mule, it is way too modern and advanced.. The pilot house would be the only part to draw any kind of reference from. That ugly beast of a Chrysler at the beginning of the thread is dead on although missing the wheel house.

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Posted by 65 air cav vn on Friday, November 30, 2007 9:25 AM
On the chrysler model seamule in the photo does the pilothouse go just behind the two covers with the blue centers ? Would the 1940's seamule just push or tow an object? would the 1940's mule have rubber covered push knees? Would the pushknees extend into the water?  What shape is the bow? Sorry for all the questions. I am old enough now that if I dont ask questions when I think of them They may be lost into that dark room at the back of my brain.  Thanks for your help  Hank  Support the troops  Gary Owen 
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  • From: Spartanburg, SC
Posted by subfixer on Friday, November 30, 2007 9:54 AM

OK, I hope that the picture is visible, it is of the Chrysler. The dirty gray rectangular area aft of the two blue squares is where the pilot house stood. It has been cut away for the conversion that the owner is performing. You can see a dark area in the center of this rectangle where the helm console was installed. Sea mules are push boats but I can imagine that they could tow if they had to but aren't intended to do this. Sometimes they are used to move camels and caissons at times but these are tied alongside the sea mule, not pulled behind them. There isn't a lot of control with an object being towed. The predominent material for padding in the past was simply firehose nailed to the knees. The knees do extend into the water, about level with the keel. They do extend past the waterline. The bow is scow-like, it resembles the bow of a flatbarge. By the way, these boats are very powerful for their size but are geared and propellored for torque and not speed. They move at maybe 10 knots and leave a tremendous wake when at these speeds. I can't imagine why the owner of this thing wants to make a houseboat out it, they are loud, slow and the worst fuel hogs in the shipyard. Good luck to him.

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Posted by 65 air cav vn on Friday, November 30, 2007 11:07 AM
On the picture of the seamule with the sailor in the pilothouse there seems to be a splashguard, would these be on the 1940's seamule?  Thanks  Hank  Support the troops  Gary Owen
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Posted by CG Bob on Friday, November 30, 2007 12:09 PM

The USCG mule was used at the USCG Yard in Curtis Bay (Balimore), MD to move some of the smaller boats around.  The curved metal piece at the bow is called a breakwater, and is a splash guard.  Most of the WWII era sea mules wouldn't have a curved breakwater like that. The mule is tied alongside the MESSENGER, an 85' ST tug from WWII. 

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Posted by 65 air cav vn on Friday, November 30, 2007 1:03 PM
What color would the seamule be painted before the attack on pearl harbor? The Ingalls illistration shows the mule pushing a barge would the seamule have that type of plate between the push knees?  Thanks  Hank  Support the troops  Gary Owen
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  • From: Spartanburg, SC
Posted by subfixer on Friday, November 30, 2007 1:51 PM
I have never seen a Navy sea mule with a breakwater or anything that would function as one in 35 years and I've been to quite a few shipyards, bases and facilities. I would bet that there weren't any in use in Pearl Harbor in 1941 either. They would more than likely be painted gray like every other item the navy owns.

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  • From: Mansfield, TX
Posted by EdGrune on Friday, November 30, 2007 6:35 PM

Yard and district craft of the immediate pre-war period would likely have been painted with a  black hull.  Superstructure would likely have been Standard Navy Gray #5. 

Ocean Gray (5-O) wasn't ordered until the September, 1941 issue of SHIPS-2, the Navy's painting directions.  Ocean Gray was used during the war on yard & district craft,  but these were low priority craft for getting them painted by December.   Refer to the picture I posted further up the thread of the garbage lighter spraying water on the burning West Virginia.  Black hull & gray superstructure.

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  • From: Spartanburg, SC
Posted by subfixer on Friday, November 30, 2007 9:03 PM
I concur with that, Ed. There are still some yard auxillieries that are painted black now that I think of it, and I have indeed seen some sea mules with black hulls but rarely.

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Posted by 65 air cav vn on Monday, December 3, 2007 6:19 AM
What is the length of the largest sea mule used in a harbor?  Thanks.  Hank  Support the troops  Garry Owen
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  • From: Spartanburg, SC
Posted by subfixer on Monday, December 3, 2007 10:45 AM
I'd say, and I'm just trying to guesstimate, about 30 feet. I have seen LCMs that were used as mules (and other uses as well, they are very versatile) and they are fairly large (75 feet) but I don't think they were in service until the late fifties to early sixties.

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