New? Revell 1/111 or so USS Constitution- kit origin?

EPinniger wrote:

When looking at the kit parts, particularly the guns and deck fittings, it immediately seemed to me that the scale was larger than 1/159 (building "box scale" kits in all sorts of odd scales, you develop an eye for this sort of thing). I did some measurements and calculations which indicated the scale is actually around 1/127. (This seems about right to me). The real ship's hull is 175' long according to the kit instruction sheet; the kit's hull is about 16.5" long - this scales out at 1/127. (Have I made any mistakes here?)

The length of the gun deck is about 175 ft. The overall hull length is about 204 ft. Are you measuring from tip of the head to the tip of the stern railing? If you are then the scale works out at about 1/148, by my calculator. Interestingly, the Campbell plans for the Smithsonian measure out at 201 ft which is a bit short of the real ship.

 Russ

 

I received the Constitution kit in the mail today (took a while to get here, probably due to the Christmas post). I'll post a more detailed description, and some photos of the kit parts, soon (tomorrow hopefully) but my initial impressions are pretty good. It certainly isn't up to the standard of the 1/96, kit but looks like a good balance in terms of size vs. detail (unless you're lucky enough to own the 1/120 Imai kit, which I'm sure is superior to this one). Although I can already see plenty of things that could be improved, such as the transom windows which could do with drilling out and glazing with clear styrene sheet (and of course the gun carriages moulded into the deck).

When looking at the kit parts, particularly the guns and deck fittings, it immediately seemed to me that the scale was larger than 1/159 (building "box scale" kits in all sorts of odd scales, you develop an eye for this sort of thing). I did some measurements and calculations which indicated the scale is actually around 1/127. (This seems about right to me). The real ship's hull is 175' long according to the kit instruction sheet; the kit's hull is about 16.5" long - this scales out at 1/127. (Have I made any mistakes here?)

Hi EPinniger

 I started cleaning parts last night-  will take pics soon...let's see what we can do with this kit.   I plan to use my completed 1/96 Revell kit as a guide to see where I can add and modify.  Keep in touch!

 

-Len

lrobertojr@aol.com

I've just bought this kit myself today on eBay (cost about £8). Not sure if it is the new issue or the older one (as the boxes appear to be identical) but it is definitely the 22" kit. When I receive the kit I'll post some photos of the parts if Lenroberto hasn't already done.

I know this kit is simplified in many respects compared to even the smaller 1/190ish Constitution (which I already have, unbuilt - it was actually the first sailing ship kit I bought) but, as lenroberto says, it seems like a good compromise in terms of size. Detailing and improving the kit will be an interesting challenge (the gun carriages, for example, could be replaced with spare ones from a 1/150 Heller kit)

That number, H-357, does match Dr. Graham's book.  (I missed it originally because it's listed under the name "Old Ironsides," rather than "Constitution."  My fault.)  The entry reads: "Old Ironsides with sails.  1972-1979.  [Those are the years when it appeared in the Revell catalogs.]  1/159.  $15-20.  [That's Dr. Graham's estimate of its value on the collector's market.]  Black, tan plastic.  Paper flag sheet, cement.  USS Constitution.  'Simplified series.'  Reissue of H-362 (1969) with sails added."

For some reason, Revell kit numbers weren't always sequential.  Hence H-362 was issued three years before H-357.

Good luck.

Len:

I have an old Revell catalogue from the 1970s. It is even in color. Very nice thing to have saved, I think. It is full of nostalgia.

H357 is one of the weekend build kits they advertised. There were 4 kits in this collection in this catalogue. There is the H357 Constitution (22" long), H368 Cutty Sark (24" long), H366 Mayflower (20" long), and the H 372 Civil War Blockade Runner (aka Yacht America 24" long) 

The blurb reads, "Build a legend in a weekend! These sailing ship models are big and 'professional' looking yet so easy to assemble you'll be amazed. Ships feature one piece decks, molded deadeyes and ratlines, pre-formed sails, detailed deckings and cabins, easy yard and mast assembly, rigging and anchor thread."

Russ 

 

Got the kit last night-  looks old as you suspected John-  but the kit number on the sprues is:

 

H357-  not the 2 listed below.

It does look like the "quick build" you describe-  only a few gun ports open, just a small lower deck where the open ports are amidships, simplified yards-  but still the hull and especially the stern look quite nicely detailed.

-Len

I have seen this Constitution kit a few weeks ago in the local hobby shop. According to the description by John Tilley, it definitely is Revell 1/159 "Quick Build" kit.

 

Stefan. 

Dr. Graham lists the scale of the Revell "Quick Build" kit as 1/159, and its length as 22".  Pretty close to Russ's estimate.

That book is a remarkable piece of work, and I highly recommend it.  I have, however, caught several minor goofs in it regarding sailing ship kits and their scales.  It looks, though, like in this case Dr. Graham's calculation is on target.

I think part of the problem may be that different sources list the lengths of ships differently.  Most contemporary documents talk about either "length of keel," "length between perpendiculars," "length on deck," or "length overall" - and even the latter figure usually doesn't include the bowsprit and spanker boom.  The model companies, on the other hand, assume (quite reasonably) that their customers are most interested in the genuine overall length of the model - including all projections.  An unwary person trying to figure out the scale of a model based on the manufacturer's statement of its length and some other source's statement of the length of the real ship is likely to get tripped up.

Thanks Russ-  the box had no scale listed-  but a few online sources I found had it at 1/111

 

I guess we will see-  I took the plunge today for $25.00....I'll post a report with pics soon

 

Len

Len:

Just a quick warning, if its 22" long then its a much smaller scale than 1/110 or111. Its more like 1/157 by my reckoning.

Russ 

 

 

 

Dr. Graham's Remembering Revell Model Kits lists the "Quick-Build," 22-inch Constitution as having been released originally in 1969 with the kit number H-362, and reissued (with vac-formed "sails" this time) in 1972 with the number H-372.  He doesn't list a kit with the number 05600.  (All the numbers in the book begin with H.)  That kit may well be a reissue from some time after 1979, when the book's coverage ends.  Or maybe it originated with Revell Germany.

I doubt that the one in Lenroberto's hobby shop is the Imai kit, but in the wonderful wacky world of plastic ship kits just about anything is possible.

Thank you very much-  I think I will pick it up and  take a look....I'm hoping it's your second possibility!

 -Len

I think it's probably the old "Quick-Build" kit from the late seventies. 

At that time Revell (like all the other American kit manufacturers) was having serious financial problems.  The "Quick-Build" series of sailing ships was intended to attract people who thought sailing ship models were pretty, but were put off by the complicated rigging, etc., of the three-foot kits.  The series included the Constitution, Cutty Sark, Thermopylae (a clone of the Cutty Sark, of course), Mayflower, and yacht America.  The last named was an original kit; the others were variations on older Revell products.  The Mayflower was an enlarged version of Revell's earlier, and excellent, version of that ship; the only big difference in the "Quick-Build" version, other than size, was that most of the rigging blocks were omitted.  The other three were shrunken versions of the big 1/96-scale kits.)

I never built this "medium-sized" Constitution, but I remember looking at it in the hobby shop where I worked.  As I recall, it was really simplified.  Each deck was molded in one piece, with most of the deck furniture, including the gun carriages, cast integrally with the decks.  The gundeck only extended an inch or so fore and aft of the hatch in the middle of the spar deck; the gunport lids in the bow and stern were molded shut.  All the spar components were considerably simplied; the "shrouds and ratlines" were injection-molded blobs, and there were no blocks or other fittings for the rigging.  It probably did a good job in its intended role of introducing people to the hobby, but I couldn't recommend it to serious scale modelers. 

I'm typing on the office computer; when I get home tonight I'll look up the kit number in Dr. Graham's book.  His coverage stops with 1979, though; this kit number may or not be mentioned in the book.

There's one other possibility.  Just before Imai went out of business it produced a Constitution that was about that size - a completely different kit.  It got distributed in the U.S. (briefly) by Monogram; I don't think it ever appeared here in a Revell box, but I suppose it's possible.