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Learning from 1:96 USS Constituion

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  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: 37deg 40.13' N 95deg 29.10'W
Posted by scottrc on Tuesday, December 19, 2006 7:50 AM

I put weight in the hulls of all my plastic models.  I just like the feel and also the reaction of others when they lift the model and it has some depth to it.  Plaster is not a good idea because it generates heat.  I use modeling clay since it is pliable yet sticky enough to hold a few lead weights in place for the lifetime of the model.  It also will never harden, dry, and crack out over time, nor will it expand or contract do to changes in humidity and temperature.  All things that you need to consider when sealing up the hull.

I am just about to join the hull halves on a 1/96 Constitution and will place a roll of modeling clay along the keel and then place a 1/4"x1/8" x 6" steel bar into the clay.  I will already have my ferrel mounts built into the hull before joining the halves so these will not interfere with the clay.

 I had two ships hit the floor this year, one was knocked over by a cat, and the other, my 1/96 Thermopylea, I dropped down the stairs.  Having the weighted keel, IMO, maybe allowed both ship to land on the keel and both only had spars knocked off.

Repairing is not as hard as it first looks if you have a well rigged ship.  Many times, if the structual integrity of the mast was not broken, I could just pin and glue the broken spar back in place and the rigging will require just some tension adjustments.  

Scott 

  • Member since
    December 2005
Posted by MagicSteve on Monday, December 18, 2006 8:58 PM
I don't know that I would consider filling the hull with plaster being a good Idea. You are not trying to make the boat heavy, you are trying to make sure that once it is in a case it stays there. The next time I do a boat I will make sure I have something to anchor the stand to within the model and the stand should have similar provisions to ensure that the stand can be bolted securely down to the display case. You will be better off secureing pieces of wood into the hull that you can drive some wood screws into. Adding 15lbs of plaster is only going to ensure that the damage is major if it ever shifts, say if somebody bumps the display. When getting a display case it should open from the side of the ship or the end, not the top or the bottom. It will be a lot easier to slide the model into place than trying to lower a glass case down onto a model or a model down into a fish tank. As far as repairing significant damage. I don't think I would have the heart to it. You may be better off to cut all the rigging out, repair the spars and masts, then re-rigging the beast.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, December 18, 2006 6:52 PM

A couple of good points are brought up here.

As far as a base is concerned, I plan to order BlueJackets base and supports. The Revell model is made to accomadate two bolts to be fastened through their respective supports. The BlueJacket base has 3 mounts. I will have to see how I will handle it after I get it.

Or, I could go to one of the local wood shops that support the local Megayacht indudstry and order a custom made base. Or, I could go to the same shop and buy the wood and make the base myself.

But when all is said and done, I think I will be better served with the BlueJacket product. (Yes, the base will end up costing more than the kit. In the end result, I believe that the cost of the kit will be listed under "miscallaneous and incedental expenses.")

The vessel, even when mounted, will be light in weight. What do you think of this idea? Build the hull, mount the supports and attach it to a temporary base in the same manner as the finished base. Then pour in some plaster of paris in the hull before inserting the gun deck.  This will add some weight to the model but it will be entirely undetectable.

Oh, to think of the model being accidently blown over! Has anyone successfully repaired a plastic sailing ship after such an accident? Having more weight down low might prevent this.

But, is there a down side to this idea?

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: Glenolden, PA
Posted by highlanderburial on Monday, December 18, 2006 2:39 PM

Ditto on everything you just said. The hard lesson I learned was with the lines running through the tip of the iib. Boy does that break easy. I can't say enough about making sure your rails are glued to the deck solid enough either. I took a break from mine for several months, and also can't underscore the value of a "highlighter" pen when you have to come back to the plans and try and figure out where you stopped at. I am definitely done with plastic sailing ships for awhile after this. Going back to real wood models. I wish I could send your post back a few years to a more eager and motivated me who started this project.

Great post! Keep em coming!

Todd

Imagine a witty signature right .....here....

  • Member since
    December 2005
Posted by MagicSteve on Friday, December 15, 2006 10:54 PM
I have started building a proper stand for the model. I used a contour gauge to layout the side supports on a small plank of 6" x 1/2" Oak. I then cut out two supports. I will tie them together with a strip between them and then wire the model down to the base frame with some 20ga brass wire. When this is done I will install front and back tie pieces to strengthen the stand and hide the brass wire somewhat. Before I do this I will make sure I have some nuts mounted in the base frame and a carefully layed out template so that I can ensure that I can bolt the stand down to the bottom of a display case. I don't know if this will be strong enough for much movement, but with the model built there are definite limits to what I can do. My point on this is that It would have been far easier to mount interior supports in the hull before the decks went in, then I could just screw the stand to the hull. Not only that. Having only the basic hull together it sure would be easier to work on. I will attach a picture or two if I can figure out how.
  • Member since
    February 2006
  • From: Boston
Posted by Wilbur Wright on Friday, December 15, 2006 3:58 PM

Good advice magic steve. As I get ready to rig the CSS Alabama I cannot say enough , particularly with Revell DE kits, that one must read the instruction book several times front to back. Many of the instructions are out of sequence and miserable to correct if already built.

 

When my hull was complete and painted I drilled holes in the Revell base into the hull bottom and used liquid nails to attach aluminum tube to make as one. I then carefully drilled small holes and used small screws to attach to sides of hull from underneath. Its rock solid and already measured for its base of wood. I will attach the 2 revell bases (attached now to the ship) by filling them with Liquid nails and placing over dowels already attached to the stained and varnished pine base. Let dry 48 hours. The model will then be permanently attached to its finished base.

I 'm not familiar with the Constitution base, however you may try placing the model in a jerry rigged B&D workmate where the model is steady on both sides and the bottom open... and you can drill from the bottom (with another person helping to hold the ship) sit on the floor and drill up, and do as I have for the Alabama.

  • Member since
    June 2006
  • From: Highland IN
Posted by TGregory on Thursday, December 14, 2006 10:51 PM

I asked santa for a Constitution, but I don't see anything under the tree that bigSad [:(]

There is so much that can be done to that kit. My first encounter with rigging was with the Cutty Sark, 1/196 scale I believe many years ago that kit took almost two years to complete and I gave it to my aunt who proudly displayed it on the fireplace mantle.Good memories.

Tony Gregory
  • Member since
    February 2006
Posted by Grymm on Thursday, December 14, 2006 10:37 PM
I always love reading posts like this. No matter what the experience or skill level, one can always learn something new. I went through the same thing, except my first taste was with the 1:96 Cutty Sark from Revell. I made lots of errors, but learned from them and had the wonderful guide that Big Jake created. I would love to see some photos of your build. I have two 1:96 Constitutions waiting in the wings, one for each of my boys. Once I get done with my Heller La Reale and get a little deeper into the rigging of the Soleil Royale, I intend to tackle both Constitutions at the same time. A "twin build", if you will. I've been busy grabbing every bit of info and discussions on the Constitution I can find and I have a 1 Gig flash card loaded with a ton of material. Any pics/info/discussions are always welcome. Oh, JTilley, you were right. The La Reale has been the most enjoyable build I've done so far. I took an extended break from the Soleil Royale (I believe the Anderson book is under my Xmas Tree) and decided to tinker a little with the La Reale. Before I knew it, I had jumped headlong into the project. It has been quite enjoyable. The molds are perfect and it took paint beautifully. The fit has been great. I'm not doing much in the way of scratch-building, though I may do something about the handholds on the oars. The handholds are literally just a large piece of plastic molded as part of the oar. I could just create the illusion of handholds with paint, or cut them into the plastic with the dremel, or just cut the plastic off entirely and create the handholds from wire. Or I could just leave it as is. I haven't decided yet. And my boy loves the kit and is excited about it going into his room... If you have never built this kit, GET IT! It's an incredible build. It's a gorgeous Galley and is not really that complicated. It's also a good place to get your feet wet in the art of rigging. While it is a bit of a challenge, there's not a whole lot of rigging to get a builder frustrated. Grymm
  • Member since
    December 2005
Learning from 1:96 USS Constituion
Posted by MagicSteve on Thursday, December 14, 2006 9:22 PM
I have completed my first sailing ship model, actually ship model period. I feel that my results are good, but the learning curve was steep. These are some of the things I have learned from the xperience. 1. While the kit is excellent, it is way too complex to do as a first kit. I could have had better results if I had mastered the skills on a series of smaller kits before attempting this huge kit. 2. Build in lots of internal reinforcement and provisions to mount to a permanent base. In conjunction with point one, I would have been well served if I had epoxied in suport blocks so I could easily screw the hull to a base early on. My problem now is that I have to find a way to secure the model to a base but I don't have ready support. 3. Mount the kit as soon as possible. a model this size is FRAGILE, and ACKWARD Mounting it will be a challenge in itself. 4. Replace some of the smaller parts with wire and other scratch building materials. the Chains, Deck rings, Deadeyes, Hearts, belaying pins. Tieing lines off at belaying pins is difficult, so if you work out a short cut that looks good, it may be the way to go. 5. Mount the cannon trucks but not the barrels. I had to be extra careful with the barrels and doors but I have heard stories about real nightmares fixing a barrel wrenched from its truck with the lines 6. Know your ropes. experiment and play with different types of thread and treatments. Consider winding the ropes needed with a home made rope walk. I used some embroidery yarn for the stays and it seems a little too soft for this application. Good knot work and careful line preparation and installation really make the model look good. This is probably the weakest part of what I did, so the next kit I do, I will give this special attention. 7. Watch the tension in the lines and plan ways to maintain the tension. keep stuff straight and watch out for bows in yards masts. etc. 8. Build sub assemblies off the boat wherever possible, and don't put them on the ship permanently untill absolutly necessary. I found a net to put in the Hammock rails but had already installed the rails on the hull. putting the net in the rails was harder than I first expected and by the time I figured out how to trim them nice and neat. I had the problem of not having adequate access. I did the best I could but the results leave some to be desired. 9. Get good references on the subject and learn the arts of scratch building. Use pieces of wood, cardboard, wire, beads glue, paper. Most of these plastic sailing ship kits are very old and can use great deal of scratch building to make them look good. 10. Be patient. This kit took me close to two years to complete. 11. Build jigs wherever possible. 12. Paint pens, markers and pens are available and greatly helpful in doing the stern decoration. keep lots of clamps around, bull dog clips, cloths pins, medical clamps. small mirrors. 13. Carefully study the instructions and make sure all the blocks, eyes, and lines are in place before mounting subassemblies such as decks and masts. These are a lot easier to deal with on a jig than on the model when you have to work from ackward approaches. 14. Watch the forums, they are full of good ideas, and give fair warning about the weaknesses of various kits. I also look at some of the card stock modeler forums. What they do give is lots of good ideas about scratch building enhancements.
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