Decals for US Navy ships

TB6088 wrote:

It sounds like that kit has most of the "conversion" parts except for the mast, which I assume will have to be scratch-built.  It'll also give me some time to actually do a little research for a change

LoL!  I've always tried and nver succeeded at only a "little" research <g>.

The mast is actually relatively easy to put together; the gussets for all the platforms are what get fussy.  Memory is failing me just now, but a FRAMed kit would have many of the parts you are wanting--if the goal is Black in the 50s. 

And really, this is easier now than jsut a few years ago.  The SPS10 & SPS40 radars are not hard to find as PE.  The round radar for the 5" gun director is also easy enough to find as well.

The hardest part, for the modernized Black will be the three radar directors for the 3"/50 mounts.  After that, the 3"/50's are the next hardest thing to fuss with--as they really have to look good, and all match, all in quite close proximity.

Now, if you are quite lucky, and you can model Black in the late 50's, many of those Fletchers only carried the one stern track (and not "reload" rack) and only the four "K" guns along side (sometimes fewer).  And some had one or two of the three-tube (Mk 38?) torpedo tube launchers for ASW in lieu of any "K" guns at all.  Back to needing reseach on a particular ship at a specified time.

EdGrune,

Wow! Do I have a lot to learn.  Sounds like I should do this Tamiya kit out of the box for practice and then get the Trumpeters kit you mentioned to use for the Black project.  It sounds like that kit has most of the "conversion" parts except for the mast, which I assume will have to be scratch-built.  It'll also give me some time to actually do a little research for a change, and utilize all this great information you've provided.  Thanks,

TomB

TB6088 wrote:

has the large "3-D" or "shadow" type lettering on the bow, and no camo that I can see.

The shadowed letters are 72" tall for DDs, and proportoinately larger by ship class, if I'm remembering right.  During the war, the numbers were reduced to just 24" tall and in white, except where camo paint would make the white invisible.

Now, for the super-detailers out there, the specs call for a weld bead 6-12 inches long at the corners of the numerals to make laying out for painting easier.  (Ok, I just had a picture of needing a magnifying endoscope with surgical tools for doing that on 1/700 scale . . . <g>)

Floating Drydock, I want to remember stocks shadowed numbers in different ship "sizes" that would be just right for this.

From the US Naval Historical Center's photo archives ---

USS Black (DD-666)

At sea, following her mid-1950s modernization, in which she lost one 5"/38 gun mount and received three 3"/50 twin mounts.

Mount 53 (that is the one just forward of the raised gun platform goes away.  Add a raised director structure in its place.    The 3"/50s replace the twin and/or quad 40s in the raised raised tub aft and in the waist tubs.  

Note too the square bridge and low MK37 director.   The Tam kit is the early round-bridge version with the high MK37.   You would be better served in starting with the Trimpeters 'The Sullivans'  (It is a square-bridge/low Mk37 and has the large gun tubs you will need as well as the midship director tower). 

The MK37 is the later version with the dish instead of the butterfly-shaped radar antenna.  

Veterans Models used to make some aftermarket 3"/50s.   But they were overpriced (IMO) and you needed to buy them along with other details you may or may not use.  They had been imported by Commanders/Iron Shipwright -- but they have been removed from their website so I guess they are no longer available.   The Tom's Modelworks square-bridge conversion for the Tam Fletcher (now OOP) had some 3"/50s in it.  If you come up blank, I may have some in the spares box from another project. 

Note too the hedgehog boxes under the bridge wing, along with reload lockers between the bridge and Mount 52.

Big changes in the mast too.   The kit mast (Tam or Trump) is a single pole mast.   The Black, like most post-war Fletcher refits got a tripod mast to support the larger radar array.

I would try to locate a copy of the Anatomy of the Ship - The Sullivans.   It has good pictures and line drawings which include this sort of weapons/sensor layout.

EdGrune wrote:

You are planning a Fletcher, post WWII fit.   Which model are you using?  Which ship are you doing?  Do you have the correct weapon fit?  Write back with your info & I can likely get you resources from my library.

EdGrune,

I'm building a Tamiya Fletcher Class 1/350 scale, and I'm interested in doing the destroyer Black, hull number 666 (don't ask.....).  With this being my first surface ship, and me not being the most careful modeler when it comes to historical accuracy, I hadn't really thought about weapons fit and other post war changes.  Would it take a lot of aftermarket parts and/or scratchbuilding to accomplish those revisions?

TomB 

TB6088 wrote:

Ed Grune, The photos I've seen of the particular destroyer I want to build has the large "3-D" or "shadow" type lettering on the bow, and no camo that I can see.  The ship served in the Pacific late in WWIII, was decommissioned, and then recommissioned again in 1951 and served in the Pacific and Atlantic through the late 1960's, so I don't know if the paint scheme and lettering might have changed from WWII to post-WWII.  I'd like to build it with the large shadow-type number on the bow as in the photo I've seen, but I don't see that style on the decal sheet you attached.  Thanks, though.  I'm getting closer! TomB

WWIII ???

During WWII, the Flatchers were in a variety of colors and schemes.   The US Navy's colors during WWII were based on a purple-blue tints.   Very late in 1945 the colors went to a neutral gray-based tint.  It was used on new construction and on refits.    Hull numbers during WWII were smaller and unshaded.   Soon after the end of WWII the ships of the USN were all painted into the standard neutral gray and the shaded numbers were restored.  Names were painted back onto the sterns.

For numbers you can go back to the Gold Medal Models

http://www.goldmm.com/ships/350-1D.htm

You can order direct from GMM, or from WEM, or from Pacific Front Hobbies, or from other outlets.

You are planning a Fletcher, post WWII fit.   Which model are you using?  Which ship are you doing?  Do you have the correct weapon fit?  Write back with your info & I can likely get you resources from my library.

Ed Grune,

The photos I've seen of the particular destroyer I want to build has the large "3-D" or "shadow" type lettering on the bow, and no camo that I can see.  The ship served in the Pacific late in WWIII, was decommissioned, and then recommissioned again in 1951 and served in the Pacific and Atlantic through the late 1960's, so I don't know if the paint scheme and lettering might have changed from WWII to post-WWII.  I'd like to build it with the large shadow-type number on the bow as in the photo I've seen, but I don't see that style on the decal sheet you attached.  Thanks, though.  I'm getting closer!

TomB

Your better bet might be these, available from Iron Shipwright

http://www.commanderseries.com/

The hull number decals available through WEM are the Gold Medal Models ones.  They are good but are for modern US Navy.  They are not applicable for WWII era.

 {{edit}} Oh, and by the way, names on WWII era USN ships were painted over.   You don't need to come up with the decals for that.

Here you go:

http://www.whiteensignmodels.com/acatalog/index.html?http%3A//www.whiteensignmodels.com/acatalog/catalogbody.html&CatalogBody 

You have to cut and paste the link.  For some reason this site won't let you live link.