Battle of the River Plate--- Frustration

i'm going to be converting an ajax hull to build the exeter. i'm using 2 models of ajax to build exeter but also get a dido out of it. i'm taking a section out of midships of 1 ajax to get proper length for dido class & inserting it into the 2nd hull to get the right length for exeter. also adding a 1mm insert between the 2 hull halves to get right width.

Hi

Many moons ago{Nixon was in the white house} I went to a "Squadron Hobby Shop" in Elmhurst{long gone}. I don't remember the kit mfg's. but I got a "Graffspee" and "Exeter"{unfortunetly not the same scales}, and a I bought a "Squadron" book on the Graffspee. I painted my Graffspee in the camo. it was in during her "River Plate" scheme, and yes it had the correct "Arado" spotter plane. It looked so good when done, I wish I still had it. This was before they came out with P.E. rails and stuff, that would have made it so "museum quality". I did my Exeter to match pics out of a 1941 edition of "Janes Fighting Ships" I got from the local library. I used 3 pics circa 1939{1} and 1940{2}. She looked pretty good too, but I haven't seen them all in the same scale either, and I've been looking for{GADS !} 37 years!

 SteveH

Catziggy wrote:

As a whim I desire to build the main four ships of the battle, namely Graf Spee, Ajax, Exeter and Achilles.  Can I find all 4 models in the same scale, whatever it is?  Nope! I wanted to show them alongside each other to get the idea of the Graf Spee's superiority of fire power against its UKL rivals. I can find some in 1/600 but not all. Does anyone know if there are ANY kits of all the ships in the same scale OR are there sister ships that can be converted to make the set up?(i.e. Ajax converted to Achilles).   Has anyone else met this challenge?  Thanks

this would be wonderful to see someday.  i hope somebody is reading this

I'd forgotten about the old Nichimo Graf Spee.  (Wow - my computer suddenly acquired the ability to do italics again in these posts!)  That company's kits did indeed run the gamut from mediocre to outstanding.  I don't recall seeing that one in particular, but I'm sure honneamise is right about it.

The Italeri Graf Spee that I built was in a Testor's box.  It did indeed come with a Heinkel biplane; the instruction sheet included instructions to convert it (well, sort of) to an Arado.  (I think I was supposed to glue a piece of scrap to the top of the fuselage to represent the canopy - and add an additional blade to the propellor.)  I did mine in 1938 configuration, with red and white stripes on the turrets, the big Nazi eagle on the stern, the coats of arms on the bow, and the Heinkel.  (I've always found it ironic that two of the most awful, repressive governments of the twentieth century, Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union, built some of the world's best-looking warships.  The Graf Spee, in her spit-and-polish peacetime guise, certainly fell into that category.) 

The current Revell Germany website specifically states that its 1/720 Graf Spee has an "Arado seaplane."  I'll believe that when I see it.  I suspect the kit is nothing more or less than a reissue of the Italeri one.

There are, of course, several possible sources for Arados.  A 1/700 one would work fine on the Italeri/Testors/Revell Graf Spee.  Any 1/700 Bismarck, Tirpitz, Scharnhorst Gneisenau, or Prinz Eugen probably could be raided.  The recent Dragon Bismarck and Tirpitz even have Arados molded in clear plastic.

The Gold Medal Models WWII German set of photo-etched detail parts includes lots that will work on the 1/720 Graf Spee:  railings, stack cap, ladders, hose reels, etc.  And a set of float struts for the aircraft.  Installing them is pretty fiddly, but the difference in appearance is worth it.  The only thing I wish had been added to that set is the plaque with the word "CORONEL" on the front of the bridge structure.  (The Battle of Coronel was Admiral von Spee's great victory.)  It shows up prominently in photos of the ship - and would be an eminently practical subject for photo-etching.

All the pocket battleships Revell sold over last two decades were the Italeri molds so you cannot go wrong here. AFAIK the only "drawback" so to say is that the Italeri kits all come with the old Heinkel biplanes - the Spee already had the Arado 196 on board in 1939. The Fujimi Spee seems to have it, but still, the Italeri ship is more accurate.

The direction seems to be clearly pointing to 1/700/720 scale if you want all four ships, but I just wanted to point out that there is an excellent Nichimo Spee in 1/500 as well - if you can find one, that is. I once had this kit and i was amazed how well detailed it was. Not all Nichimo 1/500 kits are good but some reached a level of detail that is still not surpassed by the most recent PitRoad/etc. offerings - the Spee was among them.

The Frog/Novo 1/500 Exeter, howewer, does not show the "Battle of the River Plate"-configuration, it is the later "as sunk"- version of 1942. The old Matchbox kit has the correct single mount 10.2cm guns and the higher masts that Exeter carried in 1939.

Onyxman - I don't know. Revell Germany has reissued kits from both Italeri and Matchbox. If this one is indeed the Italeri Graf Spee - grab it. If it's the old Matchbox version - forget it.

Edit after having checked the Revell Germany website - the kit Revell Germany is selling is advertised as being on 1/720 (as opposed to 1/700) scale, and can be built either waterline or full-hull. If I'm not mistaken, the old Matchbox kit was strictly a waterline model. So it looks pretty clear that this kit is indeed a reboxing of the Italeri one. That's good news.

I saw one source that said the Italieri Graf Spee is the same kit currently issued by Revell Germany. Is that true?

     MacPress books has released the Ramage series and Mr. Pope`s " Battle of the River Platte " recently and can be purchased through them. Unfortunately, I don`t have their website but you should be able to find it on the internet.

The Dudley Pope book - one of my favorites - was published in the U.S. under the title Graf Spee:  Life and Death of a Raider.  So far as I know, the content of the British and American editions is identical.  Both have been through many editions, both hard- and paper-bound.  It shouldn't be hard to find a copy for a low price.

The book is well-researched and beautifully written - a real page turner.  I've always had a great deal of respect for Dudley Pope's non-fiction.  He wrote about both WWII (73 North:  The Defeat of Hitler's Navy) and the sailing ship period (his books about the Battles of Trafalgar and Copenhagen, the sad case of Admiral Byng and the Battle of Minorca, and the mutiny on board H.M.S. Hermione are among my all-time favorites).  Mr. Pope eventually got rich from his "Ramage" novels - good books, but I do wish he'd written more non-fiction.

My only reservation about Mr. Pope's Graf Spee book is that it's pretty old now.  (If I remember correctly, it was published in the mid-fifties.)   Quite a bit of information about WWII has been unearthed since then.  When Mr. Pope wrote that book he presumably did not, for example, know about the "Ultra secret" - the British/Polish breaking of the German radio codes.  I wonder whether that might have played a role in the pursuit of the Graf Spee.  I honestly have no idea - and Mr. Pope, of course, doesn't mention the subject.

After that info I think I will wait on the new kits to be released to see whats what!

I am checking on that book on evilbay as well although amazon have some second hand ones to fall back on.

thanks again for the help.

 If you like to read about your subject matter when you're not building kits (like I do), pick up "Battle of the River Plate" by Dudley Pope.  Very good reading, I found.  It's out of print, I believe.  I got mine on the auction site for $1.00 plus shipping.....  or try:

                                                   www.abebooks.com

I'm aware of three Graf Spee kits on (or near) 1/700 scale. The old Matchbox one may be the weakest. The one from Fujimi isn't bad; if it were the only one available I'd have no trouble recommending it. But the 1/720 kit from Italeri (sometimes available in boxes with the Testor's label) is, in my opinion, one of the finest plastic warship kits ever. It's beautifully detailed and accurate - and features one of the most ingenious approaches ever to the problem of providing the waterline/full hull option. (The underwater hull is cast integrally with the above-water hull, but they're separated by a narrow gap spanned by several thin plastic molding gates. The modeler slices off the gates and cements the two resulting parts together. The fit between them is perfect.) About the only weakness of the kit is a single, rather crude part representing the "landing sail" mechanism for the ship's seaplane. If you're modeling her as she appeared during the battle, that's irrelevant; the crew concluded that this apparatus was a piece of junk and threw it over the side early in the voyage. The scale, 1/720, is so close to 1/700 that if you build the other three ships in the latter scale, the four of them will look at home with each other. I strongly recommend this kit over ANY of the other plastic German pocket battleship kits on the market - up to and including the 1/400 Heller one.

Gold Medal Models makes a set of 1/700 photo-etched metal detail parts for German warships, including the Graf Spee. I can testify from experience that this set works fine on the Italeri kit.

The Matchbox Exeter is an extremely old kit - one of the first ships the company made, back in (I think) the mid-seventies. As I understand it the basic shapes are about right, but it would take quite a bit of work to bring it up to the standard of the Italeri Graf Spee. I'm sure the forthcoming White Ensign Ajax and Achilles will be outstanding - if not exactly cheap. I've never built a White Ensign kit, but the firm has one of the best reputations in the business.

Good luck.

many thanks to both of you.

This is frustrating.  There were so few ship to ship combats in the war that you would think someone would have the sense to make all the main combatents in the same scale.

 

Oh well

I will use the info and do some thinking.

Again thanks!

Matchbox used to do a 1/700 Exeter. The moulds are now being released by Alanger. I found this with a bit of searching... http://www.modellmarine.de/phpwebsite/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page&PAGE_id=565&MMN_position=176:71

York was released by Samek in 1/700  http://smmlonline.com/reviews/models/york/york.html

You may be interested in another this other site.. http://www.freetranslation.com/web.htm

It is one I often use to translate full web pages. Not perfect but it does make pages easier to understand.

 

 

I think that the HMS Exeter is going to be your problem unfortunately.

Airfix do the Graf Spee & the Ajax in 1/600th. Both the Ajax & the Achillies were Leander Class Cruisers, so yes, a conversion should be possible, but I have no information on how they differered. Unfortunately, no Exeter though

In 1/700th a Graf Spee is available in plastic & White Ensign are soon to release resin 1/700th versions of HMS Ajax in 1941 fit & HMNZS Achillies in 1945 fit, both of which could probably be backdated. There doesn't appear to be an Exeter in this scale again though.

The Exeter was a York Class & there were only two ships in it. The York doesn't look to be available in any scale. The only Exeter kit that I am aware of is 1/500th scale, possibly an old Frog/ Novo kit?  I don't thnk that any of the other ships are available in 1/500th though.

The only range that seems to offer all four is Mountford in ready built & painted 1/1200th scale. Here is a link to the range on a UK Web Site.

http://www.shipmodels.co.uk/1323_1_1452100.html

http://www.shipmodels.co.uk/1323_1_1451981.html

http://www.shipmodels.co.uk/1323_1_1451959.html

http://www.shipmodels.co.uk/1323_1_1451694.html

Probably not what you are looking for though. Maybe there is a 1/700th resin Exeter about & I have missed it, if not, 1/700th & resin is probably the most likely way one will be released.

Regards.