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How are models made ?

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  • Member since
    January 2007
How are models made ?
Posted by smnhnd on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 4:27 AM

I have always wondered.

How are the actual models made? I know about injection molding and resin and photo edged.

But the actual model is made from an actual vehicle or location or even a person.

Who selects what the model will look like and how is the model build?

Is the access to blue prints from the model maker?

Is there some partnership between museums and manufactures that allows the model maker access to the real thing?

If any one has any Idea, please feel free to answer

Thanks

SMNHND

 
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  • From: Utereg
Posted by Borg R3-MC0 on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 6:10 AM

Marketing is a very important factor in the choice of subject matter. Companies need to make models that sell. That's why you have a lot of Me-109, Tiger, Ferarri etc. kits.

Nowadays the molds are made using CAD/CAM technology. Very often the plans beeing used are not blue prints but generally avaible plans from books or magazines. This sometimes leads to problems in the models. Examples are the Airfix Fairey Battle, the Heller poliskarpov I-153. Even nowadays it happens that model companies use the wrong plans. This happend to Eduard whilst making their MiG-15 (that's why it's not on the market, yet)

  • Member since
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  • From: vernon hills illinois
Posted by sumpter250 on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 10:43 AM

Who selects what the model will look like and how is the model built?

Once a subject has been chosen to be made into a kit, each piece is designed with all the detail it will need, and with all the "locators","tabs", "Slots", etc. needed to make assembly of the final kit possible.

Is the access to blue prints from the model maker?

Sometimes there is access sometimes there isn't. A lot depends on copyright, and corporate lawyers.

Is there some partnership between museums and manufactures that allows the model maker access to the real thing?

 Again, sometimes yes, sometimes no. I believe, that in the case of models made specificly for museums, the museum commissions the building of the model, and arranges for a model maker to take on that commission. If the subject is a current item, there is probably some cooperation between the museum, and the manufacturer. Prof. tilley has experience, as a curator, in the interaction between museum, and model maker, and might be able to shed considerable light on this subject.

Lead me not into temptation ..................I can find it myself

  • Member since
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  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 1:45 PM

There's a common perception among ship modelers that museums routinely commission ship models.  They don't.

There was a time, in the first half of the twentieth century, when a couple of major maritime museums did do such things.  The Mariners' Museum, where I used to work, set up a model shop in its early days (the early thirties through the late forties).  That shop built a series of a couple of dozen models that formed a key part of the museum's basic collection, showing the visitor what a contemporary freighter, liner, tugboat, etc. looked like.  Most of them, I think, were contemporary subjects.  A few were historical - the Monitor and the Merrimac (the latter pre- and post-conversion to ironclad), the early iron steamer Michigan, a late-nineteenth-century freighter, and a few others.  I'm not sure when that model shop closed; it was decades before my time.  During my three years at the museum it never commissioned a model.  Our normal policy (to which we did make occasional exceptions) was to collect only models that were contemporary with the ships they represented.  That is, if we had the opportunity to acquire a model of a whaleship that had been built by a whaler in the nineteenth century, we'd probably acquire it.  But the most outstanding model of the Charles W. Morgan built by a modern modeler wouldn't be of interest to us.  (Largely at my urging, we did make exceptions.  I conducted a modest - and not really successful - effort to collect models by famous, influential modern modelers.  I managed to get a small, not-really-representative one by Norman Ough, and Donald McNarry's eighteenth-century ceremonial barge.  And a few years before I got there the museum had acquired Harold Hahn's famous colonial shipyard diorama.  And, of course, the Crabtree Collection has been a major attraction of the institution since the early fifties.)  Our policy regarding marine paintings was similar.  Even mediocre pictures that were contemporary with the events they depicted got our attention, but we wouldn't have been interested in a modern painting of the Battle of Trafalgar - no matter how well executed.

After I left, in 1983, the museum did commission a handful of models to serve educational purposes in its new gallery on the history of exploration.  So far as I know, it hasn't commissioned any since.  And the notorious Mariners' Museum Scale Ship Modeling Competition, which used to put the institution on the modeling community's map every five years, has been discontinued.  I don't have anything to do with that museum these days, but I have the strong impression that ship models are not high on its list of priorities.  I wonder, in fact, if any of the current staff members have any real interest in model building. 

Also in the thirties through the fifties, Howard I. Chapelle was building up a collection of commissioned models at the Smithsonian.  It was quite an assortment.  Some of them were based on original plans; some on plans Chapelle had drawn for his books; and some on commissioned plans by people like Merritt Edson.  I don't know just how many models Chapelle commissioned, but the total must have approached a hundred.  The Smithsonian also borrowed quite a few that the Navy Dept. had commissioned.  (For a while, the Navy was having a model of each new warship class built.  Maybe it still does.)

In the late seventies and early eighties the trend in maritime museums shifted away from the use of ship models as educational tools.  When the Smithsonian opened its new Hall of Maritime Enterprise, in 1978 or thereabouts, it only included a small percentage of the models Chapelle had commissioned.  The others were put in storage - and the Smithsonian spread the word among the museum community that the models were available for long-term loan, because the Smithsonian didn't intend ever to exhibit them again.  A couple of years ago the Smithsonian opened a new, permanent exhibition on American military history.  The old exhibition that "The Price of Freedom" replaced had included a considerable number of excellent warship models.  (Remember that 1/48 Missouri?)  The new gallery contains three or four.  At the present time the Smithsonian's National Museum of American History is closed for a three-year renovation.  As I understand it, a new gallery on maritime (non-naval) history is to open when the building re-opens.  I have a feeling there won't be many models in it.

Maritime museums do not, in general, consider themselves custodians and exhibitors of modern ship modeling.  Lots of the people who work in maritime museums come from academic or other backgrounds that have nothing to do with model building.  (A model builder would, I suspect, be surprised to discover how few of the staff members at the typical maritime museum actually know anything about ships - let alone ship models.) 

A few maritime museums do buy modern models, either on commission or when finished models become available. But too many ship modelers, I'm afraid, have the notion that maritime museums routinely build, or commission, models.  It just doesn't work that way - any more than art museums hire people to paint pictures or sculpt statues.  I wish there were more galleries exhibiting the work of skilled ship modelers.  But most of the established maritime museums just don't see that as part of their function.

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Posted by smnhnd on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 2:17 PM
 

 

 

Thank you for taking time to explain hoe models are made and how they relate to museums.

Its Bitter sweet the way museums take part in this great art form.

I'm in the Hampton Roads area in Virginia. This is an area full of history and ships are at the center of a large part of the historical facts here.

Maybe our time will be here some day.

 
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Posted by smnhnd on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 2:21 PM

Thanks for the answer.

But what is CAD/CAM?

Is there any where I can find out more information about this process?

SMNHND

 
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Posted by smnhnd on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 2:26 PM

Thank you for your answer.

 
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Posted by Silverback on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 3:00 PM
 smnhnd wrote:

Thanks for the answer.

But what is CAD/CAM?

Is there any where I can find out more information about this process?

SMNHND

 

 

 

CAD (Computer Aided Design) / CAM (Computer Aided Manufacture) is the electronic equivalent of the old drafting board / tool-and-die shop.  A virtual shape is created using 3D modeling and/or parametric modeling software.  The virtual data is downloaded to a CNC (Computer Numeric Control) machine which produces the actual part, or, in the case of a model, the tool to make the part.  The accuracy of this manufacturing process is astounding, but the end product is only as good as the original design.  GIGO (Garbage In equals Garbage Out) certainly applies here.

Pro-E, AutoCAD, and Co-Create are the industry standards for this type of design work.  While it IS possible to master these very complicated programs on your own, you're far better off enrolling in a program offered through the software maker or a local technical college.  Proficient Pro-E designers are in very high demand in industry because, while it is the top-of-the-line design package, the learning curve is impossibly steep, and most companies are loathe to do on-the-job training to newbies.  Proficient CNC programmers and operators are also in high demand, although the programming phase is becoming less important as the design software becomes more powerful.

 

Phil

  • Member since
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  • From: vernon hills illinois
Posted by sumpter250 on Wednesday, January 31, 2007 12:18 PM

There's a common perception among ship modelers that museums routinely commission ship models.  They don't.

    Honesty may be the "best policy", but it can also sometimes be a shot upside the head. One friend actually did some commission work, and I made the assumption that this practice was more common than, in truth, it is. Education is worth the sometimes upsetting revelations, and I am happy to know, in spite of shattered myths. I suppose, that if anything, Prof. tilley's words should give us all a greater desire to invest a little more time in research before we build. It's a sobering thought that someday, someone will find one of the models one of us has built, and take it as a true representation of the original, or type. As Humorist Jean Shepard once said,"A million years from now, archaeologists, digging in the lost continent of New Jersey, will uncover another set of these strange golden arches, and assume, because of their proliferation, they must be part of some great world religion". It saddens me to hear that museums might turn away from displaying models. You can fill a great hall with all the bits and pieces of, say, the whaling industry, and it won't be able to tie everything together as well as a detailed diorama, complete with an accurate model of a whaling ship from the days of sail. If a picture is worth a thousand words, then an accurate model is worth millions.

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  • From: Maastricht, The Netherlands
Posted by bryan01 on Wednesday, January 31, 2007 3:32 PM

Thumbs Up [tup]

 

Bryan
  • Member since
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  • From: Biloxi, Mississippi
Posted by Russ39 on Wednesday, January 31, 2007 7:17 PM
 sumpter250 wrote:

As Humorist Jean Shepard once said,"A million years from now, archaeologists, digging in the lost continent of New Jersey, will uncover another set of these strange golden arches, and assume, because of their proliferation, they must be part of some great world religion".

As it happens, those arches are a sign of a very popular religion of sorts and I suspect we have all worshipped at that church at one time or another. :)

I can also say that a local museum where I live was not at all well equipped to answer questions on a local vessel type when I came asking questions with regard to building an accurate scale model. When I asked about framing practices and plank dimensions, I got a kind of funny farm look from the staff. Sad to say, it happens more often than you think.  

Russ 

 

 

 

  • Member since
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  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Wednesday, January 31, 2007 9:51 PM

Unfortunately, knowledge about a museum's subject matter isn't always a prerequisite for getting a job in such a place.  I could expound at considerable and boring length about the sobering events I witnessed in my three years as a maritime museum curator, but I'll just mention one.

Sometime in the autumn of 1981 I was driving back from lunch, listening on the car radio to the local public radio station.  Between two pieces of music, the disk jockey read a public service announcement inviting listeners to come see the Mariners' Museum's special exhibition on the bicentennial of the Battle of Yorktown.  He went on at considerable length about what a beautiful exhibition it was.  I found this interesting in view of the fact that we didn't have a special exhibition on the bicentennial of the Battle of Yorktown.

When I got back to the museum I sought out the staff member who was responsible for writing press releases.  When I pointed out to her that we didn't have a special exhibition on the bicentennial of the Battle of Yorktown, her reaction was:  "Well, why not?"  When I told my boss, the head curator, about that conversation, he rolled his eyes and changed the subject.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

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Posted by woodburner on Wednesday, January 31, 2007 10:36 PM
Professor, I well remember the models at the Smithsonian; I interned there in the mid nineties under Jack White and recall seeing models of the steamboat JM White (with a chair from the vessel), a beautiful model of Far West, and I think a skylight from the liner St. Louis, with a model of the City of Paris beneath it. Jack had commisioned his own models, the locomotives Phantom, Experiment, Brother Jonathan (the engine, not the steamer) Consolidation and many others, each beautiful works of art, and all to the same scale, for the Railroad Hall. Most of these are now on loan, and Jack has since retired to Oxford Ohio.

The same lack of interest in nuts and bolts that swept museum design has also hit historic sites - the website for the Plimouth Plantation has no real photo of Mayflower II, and not even a description of what she was - specialized puritan transportation vessel, hired merchant ship, or? Nada. Only pictures of reenacters with comments - actually instructions! - on how to interact with the living history people. Living history is great, but the ship is a significant part of that, isnt it?

At your suggestion I picked up the book on the Tudor Navy, and read with great interest how Alan Villiers tested Mayflower II out - he found her to come alive, with the mast bending as they did back then, the stern catching wind, the spritsail which could actually be moved into the position of a jib, and with greater efficiancy, as Villiers found. The more I read, the more I admire what he did - build a vessel without engines, sail her across the Atlantic, and take joy in it all.

I found the same thing while operating as brakemen on the 1939 John Bull, a replica of the 1831 locomotive in the Smithsonian (Jack actually ran the original for her 150th). We found that she ran much better than we imagined, and honed a few skills long since lost. This has little to do with models, so I'll end it save to say that models are important tools to see how things work. Lets hope they come back into museums again.
  • Member since
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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, February 2, 2007 10:20 AM

Dr Tilley rightly laments the waning interest in ship models in maritime museums.  The International Ship Model Competition was held every five years at the Mariners' Museum in Newport News, VA and produced some remarkable works of art until it was discontinued in 2005.  Three-dimensional models can say so much more than label copy, photos and artwork, or even curators' comments.  I find that my lectures attract a great deal more interest when the audience is looking at a ship model perhaps two or three feet away.  Although Mariners' has dropped the Competition (and many believe that a true and objective ship model competition is impossible to fairly judge), the museum supports a model kiosk manned by members of the Hampton Roads Ship Model Society, and fondly called "The Taco Stand", who build models, kit and scratch, and interact with visitors every weekday and sometimes on weekends.  At least this activity keeps the fact of model building alive to visitors. And the Museum does display a prodigious number of models, many contemporary with the originals, many by outstanding builders (the McNarry barge referred to by John is on display in the Nelson Gallery now) and they are among the most popular of the artifacts in the museum.  I sincerely hope for a return of the competition either by Mariners' or some other local institution but am not optimistic.  John, I know your sentiments but sincerely hope you'll come to see the new Monitor Conservation Center and the visitor experience "Ironclad Revolution".  It represents a HUGE departure from the old Mariners' paradigms.

Best,

Ron  

  • Member since
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Posted by smnhnd on Sunday, February 11, 2007 7:13 PM
 

I truly appreciate everyone taking time to answer to my post. The knowledge in this art goes beyond the little plastic pieces we love to build. That's what's so good about this hobby of ours.

Honestly

smnhnd

 
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