PT596 questions.

Hi Ed,

I put this up on another forum. but don't know if you frequent that one.  It may answer some of your questions:

Now that the Italeri PT 596 kit is getting into modelers' hands, a number of recurring questions are popping up on the various forums, most dealing with kit-bashing. For those of you building this kit, the following may be of use:

1. The basic superstructure configuration of the Italeri kit applies to boats in the 372-383, 486-563, and 565-624 groups. Boats in this series seeing action included:

RON 27 (PT 372-377) - South Pacific

RON 28 (PT 378-383, 546-551) - South Pacific

RON 29 (PT 552-563) - Mediterranean

RON 33 (PT 488-497) - SW Pacific

RON 34 (PT 498-509) - English Channel

RON 35 (PT 510-521) - English Channel

RON 36 (PT 522-532) - SW Pacific

RON 37 (PT 533-544) - SW Pacific

RON 38 (PT 565-576) - SW Pacific

Refer to: Bulkley, Robert. At Close Quarters. (Washington, DC: GPO. 1962) for more detailed information on these squadrons.

2. The armament configuration of the Italeri kit is only suitable for some Pacific ELCOs and possibly a few of this series assigned to RON 4, the training squadron at Melville, RI. Photos of RON 37 boats, for instance, show them with a 37mm forward, but it is not the conical mount fitted to 565 on; rather, it is the modified 20mm tripod mount. Some, if not all, of the RON 37 boats also had an additional 20mm MK14 offset to starboard forward.

The European ELCOs were usually more lightly armed and the 37mm was seldom fitted, although I have seen contemporary news footage showing it fitted to 509, 515, 517, and 519 in place of the normal 20mm on the bow to port.

3. While there were directives for painting the boats at various times, you really need to look at photos to determine what boats were in what Measure. For instance, RON 29 boats in the Med were initially painted in a modified Measure 16 (Thayer Blue). However, if you look at various photos of them in Chun's American PT Boats of WWII, you'll notice that the shade of the decks varies considerably. Whether the darker ones were more recently painted than the lighter ones or whether they were a different color, I don't know. They all have the light-colored (white??) panel across the bow. There are photos of the RON 34 boats (English Channel) in the normal Measure 13, but also in a very dark scheme with much lighter deck furniture (ready-service lockers, etc.) with no two boats quite the same. In his history of RON 37 (PT 533-544) Leo Brown, who was with the boats as they were coming off the line, describes them as being gray (most likely Measure 13) when built. However, he indicates they were then sent to another yard to be painted a green camouflage, which from the photos in the book was Measure 31/20L (same as on 596).  This procedure is consistent with the specs books.

I uploaded a drawing of the SO radar to:

http://www.coastalforcesplans.com/id21.html

It's one I drew for John Lambert and my Allied Coastal Forces of World War II, vol. 2

Al Ross

That is great information. Thank you very much. I got your SO Radar drawing and printed it, thanks. Is the drawing to 1/35th scale? The reason i ask is that the mast seems shorter than the kit's mast. On my print the distance from the base of the mast to the base of the dome is 2.61". The kits mast, again to the flat base below the radar is 3.32". Was the mast that much shorter or do I just need to scale up the drawing so the actual mast portions are equal?

From the limited research I've done I thought that boats from RONs 28, 33, 36, 37 and 38 might be structurally correct but wasn't completely sure and I didn't know about RON 27. I found photos of boats 490, 491, 495, 533 and 547 that showed promise.

Thank you for your help. I really appreciate it a lot. If I get a chance I'll post a photo link to a photo or 2 of the kit's progression.

Ed

oldmodeler wrote:

Was the mast that much shorter or do I just need to scale up the drawing so the actual mast portions are equal?

It wasn't set at any particular scale in the scan, so just scale it up.

Al 

Thanks. I just wanted to make sure.

Here is a link to a few photos. They are not very good and most of the sub-assemblies are just sitting on the deck, not glued.

http://www.villagephotos.com/pubbrowse.asp?folder_id=1822847

Ed

PT Boats, Inc. sells some detail drawings of the radar mast.  I ordered some several years ago to use for an attempt to make the old Revell Higgins PT look like an actual PT.  Sorta stalled out trying to make four 1/96 scale Mk XIII torpedoes.  Might pull it out and try it again some day!

Dave Henning

Hi Al,

While not seeing action, from what I can tell PT-596 and Ron 40 arrived at the Philippines in mid 1945.  Is there anything else known about this squadron and the assigned boats?  I read in your book it was sold in May of 1946.  Do you know who the boats were sold to?

On a super detailing note Mission Models makes a beautiful set of .50 cal ammo and links.  The only problem I can see is that it would probably cost as much as the kit to add this detail to the model.  The kit ammo is not good.  $100 + for ammo belts might get me a pan over the head by my wife.  If you have any ideas I'd love to hear them.

All the best

Dave

weebles wrote:

Hi Al, While not seeing action, from what I can tell PT-596 and Ron 40 arrived at the Philippines in mid 1945.  Is there anything else known about this squadron and the assigned boats?  I read in your book it was sold in May of 1946.  Do you know who the boats were sold to? On a super detailing note Mission Models makes a beautiful set of .50 cal ammo and links.  The only problem I can see is that it would probably cost as much as the kit to add this detail to the model.  The kit ammo is not good.  $100 + for ammo belts might get me a pan over the head by my wife.  If you have any ideas I'd love to hear them. All the best Dave

Hi Dave,

For detailed info on the squadrons, you'll have to contact the PT Boat Museum, as AT CLOSE QUARTERS really doesn't say much about the non-combat squadrons.

To find out who bought what, you're really going to have to dig!  It appears that the Maritime Commission was the selling agent for the Navy, so you'd probably have to start there.  Another source would be the Ships' History section at the Naval Historical Center in DC.

As for the .50 ammo - the rear end of the cartridge is ~ .81", so at 1/35 scale it would be ~.023".  So, if you get some .025" brass rod and a miniature CAM lathe... :-}.

Al

alross2 wrote:

As for the .50 ammo - the rear end of the cartridge is ~ .81", so at 1/35 scale it would be ~.023".  So, if you get some .025" brass rod and a miniature CAM lathe... :-}.

LoL!  But the brass-and-brass "look" would be outstanding.

A body'd need that tiny cam machine to build the mandrel to bend the p/e links, though <huge grin> . . .

Insane, obviously, but jsut think how cool it'd be to have the linked ammo follow that protypical path into the feed trays . . .

Check these bad boys out.  These are 1/35 scale .50 cal rounds marketed by Mission Models.  They have photo etch links that go with them.  The only problem I can see is that it would cost over $100 to buy enough of these to feed all 4 .50's on the model.

I think Verlinden makes a photo etch set that would be much less expensive.  But these would be an eye popping addition to this kit. 

weebles wrote:

Check these bad boys out.

Wow, those are pretty.  Have to like the fact they make "empties," too. 

But, just think, if it's a c-note to arm the guns, what a few minutes' worth of empties would cost . . . <G>

Whoa, just thought about what it would take to properly detail those very-exposed Mk XIII's to match individually-linked .50bmg rounds . . . something about needing to have the access panels & such in PE or the like . . .

Or making the latch for the door from the cockpit to the forward compartment . . .

Oh the hings we can obsess upon--but, likely bettter that than squandering time in bars with loose women or upon wine and song <g> . . .

I hope this isn't too dumb a question but the SO radar mast has a central, vertical "support". Is it round like a pipe to carry wires to the antenna or is it flat?

Does it pass up through the center (looking fore and aft) or is it offse to the front or rear to clear the crossbraces?

I've been looking for photos and in some it "looks" like perhaps it is flat and passes in front of the crossbraces.

TIA,

Ed

oldmodeler wrote:

I hope this isn't too dumb a question but the SO radar mast has a central, vertical "support". Is it round like a pipe to carry wires to the antenna or is it flat?

No, that's probably an excellent question.  Some radars needed a tubular signal guide to carry the current back to the "scope" for conversion to graphical information.  Will "want" looking again at the reference material I suppose.  Oh, and some wave guides are square or rectangular, too, just to muddy the answer you want. 

Quoting Alross2, "There are photos of the RON 34 boats (English Channel) in the normal Measure 13, ..."

Can anyone direct me to a reasonable description of measure 13 & paint refs, pref for Vallejo colours?

I don't do many floaty things (g)

Thanks in advance

Jon UK