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wooden ship kits

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  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Kingwood, Texas
wooden ship kits
Posted by flyguy on Saturday, February 17, 2007 11:39 AM
I've finally decided to try wooden ship models after years of building plastic ones. I've been looking thru the Model Expo catalog and find quite a number of different manufacturers covered .  Could some of you experienced builders out there recommend  the better manufact urers for a beginner in wooden ship modeling ?
Grit yer teeth an' grin !!!
  • Member since
    March 2006
  • From: Bangor, Maine
Posted by alross2 on Saturday, February 17, 2007 12:14 PM

Need more info.  Are you interested in sailing or powered vessels?  Do you want to build solid hull or plank-on-bulkhead?

Al Ross

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Saturday, February 17, 2007 12:38 PM

Dr. Ross has a connection with one of the manufacturers, so he probably hesitates to give an obvious answer to one category of your question.  I don't have any such connection, so I will. If you're interested in powered ships (as opposed to sailing ships, or powered small boats), there really is only one company currently offering a range of good ones:  Bluejacket (www.bluejacketinc.com).  There you'll find warships and some civilian ones (tankers, freighters, etc.).  They have solid basswood hulls and brass and britannia metal fittings.  I believe Dr. Ross designed most of them, and he most emphatically knows what he's doing.  I don't have any hesitation in recommending any of those kits.

I think the only powered ships in the Model Expo catalog are a couple of versions of the Titanic from continental European manufacturers.  I haven't seen any of those kits, but frankly, on the basis of the other products I've seen from those manufacturers (see below), I wouldn't buy one without getting a good look at it first.  And I have to say that the wood-plank-on-wood-bulkhead system strikes me as a rather odd method to build a static model of a steel ship.  But maybe it works well; I shouldn't denigrate those kits without examining them.

The wood sailing ship kit business is divided into two categories.  Four fairly-widely-available manufacturers make genuine scale sailing ship model kits:  Model Shipways, Bluejacket, A.J. Fisher  (www.ajfisher.com), and Caldercraft (also known as Jotika).  Model Shipways and Bluejacket are long-established American firms with fine reputations; they know what scale modeling is about.  Some of their kits have been around longer than others, and therefore vary a bit in quality, but any of them can serve as a sound basis for a scale model.  A.J. Fisher is an old American company that's recently been brought out of hibernation under new management.  I haven't seen any of its kits in the flesh, but on the basis of the company website they certainly look good.  Calder/Jotika is a British company whose products are hard to find in the U.S.  I've never seen any of them in person, but they have an excellent reputation, which is confirmed by knowledgeable reviews in various publications.  Jotika kits are quite sophisticated and, unfortunately, quite expensive.  (The Jotika H.M.S. Victory is on 1/72 scale and costs about $1,000.)

I'm vaguely aware of a couple of companies in Germany and Northern Europe that, as I understand it, produce some excellent wood kits.  These, unfortunately, don't seem to be distributed at all widely in the U.S.  I can't claim any familiarity with them.

The other category is made up of what I call the HECEPOB kits.  (That's Hideously Expensive Continental European Plank-On-Bulkhead.)  Manufacturers in this category include the likes of Mamoli, Amati, Corel, Euromodel, and Artisania Latina.  Serious, experienced scale modelers generally hold these things in contempt.  They do vary somewhat in quality, of course - and I admit I've seen several really nice models that were built from such kits.  Generally, though, they're characterized by shoddy research (if any), inaccurate, miserably-drawn plans, second- or third-rate materials, inaccurate, blobby fittings (which frequently get recycled from kit to kit, irrespective of appropriateness), and extravagantly high prices.  Such kits may make nice decorations - and if that's what the customer wants, fine.  But unless they're modified almost beyond recognition, they do not produce scale models. 

There's one notable exception.  In the past year or two one of the HECEPOB firms, the Italian company Amati, has started a range of British sailing warship kits under the label "Victory Models."  These, I believe, are designed by a gentleman who used to work for Jotika, and they certainly give every appearance of being high-quality products.  (They're listed under the Amati label on the ModelExpo site.  The current range includes the sloop-of-war Fly, the bomb ketch Grenado, and the cutter Lady Nelson, with more promised.)  Again, I can't speak from personal experience, but these kits look to me like good ones.  They seem to inhabit a totally different planet than the HECEPOB trash that otherwise characterizes the Amati line.

If you do a search in this Forum under the word "HECEPOB" (for which I am proud to claim responsibility; if other modelers can invent words, like "TallShip," so can I), you'll find some rather high-spirited discussion of the matter.  Some folks genuinely seem to like HECEPOB kits; I wouldn't have one in my house - let alone spend good money for it.

If you're interested in smaller vessels, Bluejacket offers several nice ones.  Another good company in that category is Midwest(whose wares are shown on the ModelExpo site).  Midwest kits are well-designed, with good quality materials, sensible construction methods, and reasonable prices.  They make excellent starter projects for people new to the hobby.

Hope that helps a little.  I have a feeling this thread isn't over; some other Forum members may well disagree with my recommendations.  If so, great; that's what this Forum is about.

Good luck.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    June 2005
  • From: Biloxi, Mississippi
Posted by Russ39 on Saturday, February 17, 2007 1:09 PM

I'll agree with John on this subject. For a sailing vessel, the Model Shipways Phantom or Sultana might be a good place to begin.

I would also recommend Midwest kits as a good place to begin. They make some small skiff and catboat kits that are a good way for a bginner to get his feet wet without spending a lot of money up front.

I would also recommend reading a thread on this subject at Model Ship World. Here is the link. http://www.modelshipworld.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=529

Russ 

 

 

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Kingwood, Texas
Posted by flyguy on Saturday, February 17, 2007 2:08 PM
Al - sorry , I was on a one track thought as I wrote - I'm basically figuring  on starting with  a couple solid hulls, then progressing to built-up kits - at least I hope to be progressing .   Jack
Grit yer teeth an' grin !!!
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Sunday, February 18, 2007 2:32 AM

I certainly agree with the basic sentiments in the ModelShipWorld thread to which Russ kindly linked us.  And I agree that the MS Phantom and Sultana make excellent starter projects.

My earlier reference to "Northeastern" kits was a slip of the fingers and/or brain; I meant "Midwest."  (After one lives in North Carolina for twenty years or so, such distinctions become less clear.)  Sorry about that; I've edited my earlier post to correct the errror.

I have to take issue to some extent, though, with the other recommendations in that other thread.  As we've established several times (and rather emotionally) in other threads within this forum, people get into ship modeling for different reasons.  If you're going into it as a scale modeler (i.e., if your interest is in reproducing a real ship), you're unlikely to be satisfied with ANY kit from a HECEPOB manufacturer (e.g., Corel, Artisania Latina, Mamoli, Constructo, etc.).  I've never been quite able to figure out just what the priorities of those companies are, but scale fidelity isn't high on any of their lists.  I've wondered more than once, in fact, how many of the people who work for those firms have any clear conception of what a scale ship model is.

As I've said before in other threads, I wouldn't make these arguments as strongly if they weren't widely held among serious scale ship modelers.  For example, I used to work in a large maritime museum that sponsored a nationally-known ship model competition every five years.  The museum took pains to spread (unofficially) the word:  "Don't bother entering a model built from a continental European kit.  The judges won't look at it."  And if my observations on the subject seem harsh, take a look at this: http://www.naut-res-guild.org/piracy2.htm

That article was published in the Nautical Research Journal in 1982.  Unfortunately, the author's comments are at least as valid now as they were then (and the notorious, gawdawful Sovereign of the Seas kit is still on the market - albeit under a different label).

To each his or her own.  If you're looking for an attractive living room decoration that looks sort of like a ship, go ahead and spend several hundred dollars on a HECEPOB kit.  If you want to build a scale model of a real ship, though, stick with Model Shipways, Bluejacket, Fisher, Midwest, Calder/Jotika, and Victory Models.  Or buy a good plastic kit.  

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    March 2006
  • From: Bangor, Maine
Posted by alross2 on Sunday, February 18, 2007 6:45 PM

 flyguy wrote:
Al - sorry , I was on a one track thought as I wrote - I'm basically figuring  on starting with  a couple solid hulls, then progressing to built-up kits - at least I hope to be progressing .   Jack

Hi Jack,

Starting with a solid hull is, IMHO, a great way to get into wooden ship model building (I HATE to plank... :-}).  If you screw up the hull, you slap the bondo to it, reshape it, and move on.  I've built the PHANTOM and SULTANA from Model Shipways, along with some of the older kits like HILDINA (a great-looking trawler from the 1950s).  You can find the older kits on eBay from time to time, usually for between $50-$100.  IMHO, they're well worth it.  Same goes for the old Marine Model Company kits, although they are a bit less detailed than the MS kits.

From the BJ line, you might consider the YANKEE HERO or the RED BARON.  Both include tools, glue, paint, etc., so you really don't have to buy anything right off.  The YANKEE HERO (a fishing boat used in the late 1900s in downeast Maine) is a reworked version of their old EASTPORT PINKY kit, while the RED BARON is a Holland 32' lobster boat I designed a few years back.  Up here, they actually race lobster boats during the summer and, in 2000, the BARON was the "world's fastest lobster boat", being clocked at 57.8 mph (605 cubic inch engine).   Glenn retired her a couple years ago and his 80+ year-old father still lobsters with her.

Other kits that you might enjoy as a first build are the MONITOR and/or VIRGINIA (ironclads).  The MARY TAYLOR (pilot boat like the PHANTOM), LACKAWANNA (early 1900 steam railroad tug), or the 80' ELCO PT would also be fine, although they are a bit more challenging.

If you've never worked with a wooden kit, just be aware that they are very different from an injection-molded plastic kit.  Essentially, you assemble a plastic kit - the majority of the detailing, shaping, etc., has been done for you.  You build a wooden kit - you have to finalize the shape of the hull and superstructure, prepare its surface for painting, taper masts and yards, etc.  These aren't difficult activities, just more involved.  

A typical traditional solid-hull wooden kit comprises a machine-carved basswood hull, cast metal fittings (often lead in the older ones), basswood stock, some brass rod/tubing, one or two sheets of plans, and limited instructions (often a couple mimeographed pages).  The same type of kit developed or revised within the last ten or so years will also usually include laser-cut wood parts, photo-etched brass details, some resin parts, and extensive instructions.  I just finished developing a 1/128 kit of OLYMPIA for BJ and she includes over 600 pieces of photo-etch, about 40 pieces of resin, lots of laser-cut basswood components (mostly superstructure parts), and several hundred britannia castings.  There are five sheets of plans and an instruction manual of about 70 pages. 

Whatever you get, just take your time and enjoy the journey.  If you screw something up, just fix it and press on. 

Al

  

 

  • Member since
    August 2004
  • From: Lamarque,Texas
Posted by uspsjuan on Sunday, February 18, 2007 10:30 PM
Holly smokes Indy!! I diddn't relize the parts count on the ship alross2 is speaking of will be so high. I guess if its from the BJ line that would explain it. I have never got to build one of their kits, but have only seen a finished out of the box build. outstanding is all I can think of to say. some may say it was the quality of the modeler. I think you still need a quality kit to start with.
  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Kingwood, Texas
Posted by flyguy on Monday, February 19, 2007 12:28 PM
Thanks for the info , Doc.  I'm not a complete stranger to sailing ships , having built the whole Revell line of 1/96 scale sailers. Did them all (the Cutty Sark twice ,chain tackle and all , once for me and once for the bucks) ,but my all time favorite was the USS Constitution , I put my heart and soul into  that baby - every bit of rigging I could find ! When I transferred from Texas to the upper penninsula of Michigan (USAF) , I even made a special box to send it in , and believe it or not , the movers got it there in one piece !  However , due to the constraints of space ,I had to store it in the garage , and after I finally decided to bring it out , I found a hole in the back of the bow ,and when I opened it up ,I found some squirrels had chewed thru the plywood and made a nest in there , need I say more ! After the mourning period was over ,I salvaged  what I could and scrapped the rest .  Enough rambling - I've ordered the MS Phantom kit ( couldn't resist Model Expo's money back offer !)  already had the Sultana for years and after reading the articles in the Model Ship World site that  russ39 recommended ,I found a how to do it article by Chuck Passaro on building the Sultana, that  got me fired up again. I tried a pof kit years ago , the Albatross ,I think it was , I forget who the manufacture was , but it turned into a real disaster ,and soured me on pof models  -scrapped it ,but I've matured A little since then ( I'm pushing 73 this year) so I think I'm ready for wood now! I'm thinking If I am successful with the Phantom , I'll try the Sultana. If those work , then I'm thinking of either the Harriet Lane or the Newsboy ,then on to (God help me) a pof kit. I'm thinking of the Fair American , she's a good looker and she's 1/48 scale ,so I may now get too tangled up in the rigging ,and she's double planked , so I'll have two chances to screw up the planking phase. What say you ? By the way , you may note , I'm starting with all Model Shipways kits.  Hoping I live long enough to finish all these.      Thanks  to you and all the kind gentlemen who responded to my query !    Jack
Grit yer teeth an' grin !!!
  • Member since
    June 2005
  • From: Walworth, NY
Posted by Powder Monkey on Monday, February 19, 2007 12:33 PM

Hi Jack,

If you look on the Model Ship World site, there is also a how to for the Phantom by Chuck Passaro. It should be very helpful. 

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Kingwood, Texas
Posted by flyguy on Thursday, February 22, 2007 8:32 PM
Thanks, Powder Monkey - I found it and copied it ,I'm sure it will be very helpful . I see he also has  an article on the Sultana, too. If I can get thru the Phantom without blowing it - the Sultana will be the next one I tackle . Let the chips fly where they may !!   Cheers , Jack
Grit yer teeth an' grin !!!
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Thursday, February 22, 2007 9:22 PM

Flyguy - you're demonstrating a  refreshing and, if I may be forgiven for saying so, rather unusual degree of good, solid common sense.  The Phantom is an excellent choice for a first wood kit - not least because she's a beautiful little ship.  And the MS kit is an excellent one.  (The one I built a few years back was the short-lived resin-hull version; the wood-hull one has just as much to recommend it.)  The plans, by George Campbell, are outstanding, and the practicum on the ModelShipWorld site should be an admirable supplement to them.  In a month or two you should have a handsome model on your mantle - and be in fine shape to tackle another one.

Good luck.

 

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: vernon hills illinois
Posted by sumpter250 on Friday, February 23, 2007 12:34 PM

  Flyguy,   If you can download that practicum, it would be well worth the time and effort. I quite honestly feel just a little over my head on the MSW site. There are some really good modelers there, several of whom, post here. As for what jtilley just posted...Abso-bloomin'-lutely !!! I thought about it for a bit, and came to the conclusion that I couldn't have said it any better.

Lead me not into temptation ..................I can find it myself

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