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pt-109 boat

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  • Member since
    December 2005
Posted by PTConsultingNHR on Monday, April 2, 2007 7:29 AM
Well, Dave, ..................
I'd love to see the movie re-done, with an eye on historical accuracy.
Garth
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: USA
Posted by weebles on Friday, March 30, 2007 10:43 PM

Garth,

Did you know that the Ambassador hated the manuscript?  It wasn't Hollywood enough for him.  Donovan was more interested in getting JFK's take on it.  JFK thought it was about right.  There are some good tips from the book such as how the 37mm was mounted, the loss of the port depth charge, the retaining pin for the 20mm broken and gun tied off, etc.  JFK also had a dingy and had a reputation as being quite a scrounge.

The movie is mostly fouled up.  For example the rescue of the marines was after he was assigned to PT-59.  One of many instances where reality was changed for the convenience of the screen play.  Warren Beaty was who Jackie wanted to play JFK.  Man, would that have been a different movie!  JFK liked Cliff Robertson. 

Oh well.

Dave

fox
  • Member since
    January 2007
  • From: Narvon, Pa.
Posted by fox on Friday, March 30, 2007 7:00 PM

Hi there,Smile [:)]

Check out the current issue of FSM, page 38, Pic #1. There you have a good "Starting Point". The rest is totally up to you.

Have fun.

JimCaptain [4:-)]

 Main WIP: 

   On the Bench: Artesania Latina  (aka) Artists in the Latrine 1/75 Bluenose II

I keep hitting "escape", but I'm still here.

  • Member since
    December 2005
Posted by PTConsultingNHR on Friday, March 30, 2007 7:54 AM
Weebles,
Not starting an argument here sir, but Donovan was hand-picked by Papa Joe to do that book.  Now, I'm saying it's not a "good" book, I'm just saying that it was a tad tilted to one side - to showcase JFK's exploits in WW2.  I'll admit, growing up in the '60s and '70s, it opened my eyes to the world of PTs and all that, but once I reached my 20s in the '80s and began to really delve into PT history, I began to see how the book was intended to show JFK as a war-hero (and I will not get into the debate of whether he was or wasn't here) and was more of a human-interest story as opposed to a history of PT-109 and her subsequent loss. 
All I'm saying is that I would not use it as a modeling resource book because Mr. Donovan was focusing in on the human angle rather than, "PT-109 was an blah, blah, blah, armed with yadda, yadda, yadda and powered by an XYZ ...."
Garth
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, March 29, 2007 11:33 PM
ok ok I have a nice rust I can use... I'll go that...
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: USA
Posted by weebles on Thursday, March 29, 2007 10:25 PM

My opinion is that Donovan's book is your best reference for PT-109.  There are some key pieces of information in the book that give you clues on what the boat looked like.  There are 3 photos of PT-109 and they are all black and white.  PT-109 probably looked a lot like the photo I'm attaching.  Very dark green or green drab.  I'm leaning towards a green drab right now with a red bottom as described earlier.  How much detail you put into your model is up to you but if you do a search in this forum you will find a lot of opinions.

Below is first a photo of PT-109 on National Geographic's book cover along with JFK in the cockpit of the boat.  This photo indicates it is a photo of the boat before she lost her port depth charge during a high seas accident where the port torpedo accidentally launched.  It is also before they lashed the 37mm cannon to the deck which was never permenantly mounted. 

Following are tw photos of PT-103 and 107, both of which were in the same RON as 109 and these photos are of the boats in transit to Rendova which is extremely close to when the 109 was sunk.

Whatever you do don't paint the bottom white like the box cover.  I may have to hunt you down.  Wink [;)]

 

 

  • Member since
    December 2005
Posted by PTConsultingNHR on Thursday, March 29, 2007 6:22 AM
If you mean Donovan's book, I don't think I would use that as a painting guide.  The bottom was in a color known as Copperoyd.  It was a reddish brown in tint.  And, like I said, you could use W.E.M's Norfolk 65-A Anti-fouling red as a substitute.  Or, even a  rust colored automotive primer.
Garth
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, March 29, 2007 12:15 AM
thanks... I'll think on it
  • Member since
    February 2007
  • From: Sterling, VA
Posted by oldmodeler on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 9:44 PM
It is up to you. It is your model but I don't think there was ever a boat painted green on top and blue-grey on the bottom.  Below the waterline is a rusty shade of red. Above the waterline it was probably some shade of green. Before it was painted green it was all grey above the waterline. I could be wrong but it's my 2 cent's worth.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 11:37 AM
I got a book form the library about the pt 109 boat and kennedy, "PT 109". it's a good book and tells a lot about the and the crew. it says that it was painted forest green to blind in with the trees on the Islands. so I'm gong to do that for the top and then for the bottem I'm going to paint it a greyish-blue, to mach the water... as best I can at least... thanks for all the help!
  • Member since
    December 2005
Posted by PTConsultingNHR on Thursday, March 22, 2007 11:25 AM
There is a debate whether or not the 109 was in an overall green scheme or one of an overall grey.
In the mid-80s, four of the then surviving crewmen who were aboard her on her last patrol wrote me.  Two of the gentlemen indicated that she was in an overall green scheme and the other two gentlemen indicated to me that she was in an overall grey (and one of them said Battleship Grey) scheme.
I am of the school of thought that she was last in an overall scheme of Navy Green with a Copperoyd colored bottom.
Now, you can acquire ACCURATELY matched paint from White Ensign Models in their COLOURCOATS line.
You could use either Navy Green or Tropical Green for everything above the waterline and, even though this color was never used on wooden hulls, their Norfolk 65-A Anti-fouling paint is a very good match for Copperoyd.  Or, also, for Copperoyd, you could use rust colored automotive primer paint.
Additionally, recently, one of my colleagues who is QUITE KNOWLEDGABLE about PTs, has informed me, that contrary to the popular belief out there now, that PT boats' shafts and props were indeed bronze in color and were NOT painted over the same color as the bottoms.
Garth
Author of PT Boats In Action and Vosper MTBs In Action
Co-Author of Schnellboot In Action
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: USA
Posted by weebles on Thursday, March 22, 2007 6:42 AM

If you do a search for "PT-109" in this forum you'll find opinions by myself and many others who will help you on this project.  There's a lot of speculation and we don't all agree.  So take the best of it and do what you feel comfortable with.  Make it your own.  I can tell you with certainty that the boat was gray up until arriving in the Pacific.  It was then painted dark green.  Have fun and don't feel shy about asking questions. 

Good luck!

Dave

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: EG48
Posted by Tracy White on Thursday, March 22, 2007 12:32 AM

I've posted some photos I found in the archives at http://www.researcheratlarge.com/Photos/PT109.html

 Note that the planking isn't visible as such... it was pretty smooth.

Tracy White Researcher@Large

fox
  • Member since
    January 2007
  • From: Narvon, Pa.
Posted by fox on Wednesday, March 21, 2007 10:18 PM

Hi llama-builder,Smile [:)]

I am not one of the "great masters" by any stretch of the imagination. A while back (about 25 or 30 years ago), I built a PT 109 for R/C. I only did a small amount of research for the boat as I was just planning on making it "Stand-off scale" ( back off about 5 to 10 feet and it looks great). All the pictures I had at the time showed what looked like a wooden deck that was painted grey. I hope I was right as it now has a wooden deck. Ten years ago, I got the bug to tear it down and rebuild it as a scale boat. The tear-down started, but as things usually go in life, I was sidetracked by something or other and the project came to a halt. It is still sitting on the shelf in my workroom unfinished. One of these days I'll start to really research the 109 and get back to work on it. First chance I get, I'll check for the pictures I took of it and post them here. Should give everyone a good laugh.

JimCaptain [4:-)] 

 Main WIP: 

   On the Bench: Artesania Latina  (aka) Artists in the Latrine 1/75 Bluenose II

I keep hitting "escape", but I'm still here.

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: EG48
Posted by Tracy White on Wednesday, March 21, 2007 10:03 PM
Wood decks... painted. Revell 72nd or Italeri 35th?

Tracy White Researcher@Large

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, March 21, 2007 9:32 PM
ok so I have a new question, did the pt boats have wood decking, or metel? and was it painted? I could not find this anywhere in my reasurch, so I'm going to the great masters of modeling knowlge... or any one that knows.

much appreciated.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, March 18, 2007 11:44 PM
thanks!
fox
  • Member since
    January 2007
  • From: Narvon, Pa.
Posted by fox on Sunday, March 18, 2007 9:02 PM

Hi llama-builder,Smile [:)] Sign - Welcome [#welcome]

IMHO, they all have the same type of problems. Have built many ship models. They had their fit problems. Detail lines missing or in the wrong place. Warped parts, etc. etc.

Treat them the same as any other model. 1.Do your homework and research the ship. 2.Take your time. 3.Post pictures. If you need help, ask and it shall be given to you. 4.Have fun and enjoy the build.

JimCaptain [4:-)]

 Main WIP: 

   On the Bench: Artesania Latina  (aka) Artists in the Latrine 1/75 Bluenose II

I keep hitting "escape", but I'm still here.

  • Member since
    November 2005
pt-109 boat
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, March 18, 2007 12:00 AM
ok so this is my first "ship" project I've taken on. I have done several other models, ex:cars, tanks, airplains . so I'm wondering how ships and boats compair to other types of models? I also have read a cuple of model books aswell but there is very little put forth on the subject, so I'm resorting again to the the forums...
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