Photo-etching question

Well...the Big E is off the bench while the liquid mask dries. Just couldn't let the space be empty for long.

I started the Fletcher. Already I've discarded the PE propeller gaurds. 1. They are hard as -eh-hem- to get to look right. 2. They don't look right

I've got major parts assembled. Ready for base coat and then deck colors. I seem to like to punish myself with masking

Still trying to decide if I want to go with the "camo" from the kit, or a straight forward grey. i'm leaning grey due to the other boats being grey. i guess i'll figure that out when the time comes. :)

one thing i've discovered, there are some serious limitations to what PE can do. From my perspective, I've seen a couple places where PE would be better left out. I know for sure I'll use the railing. The rest......

I'm on my seventh ship using PE. Started with the Dragon Churchill, pretty much massacred it. Moved to the Tam Fletcher, did better but still pretty awful. Started getting the hang of it with a Trump POW. Scattered a couple of DDs, DEs and a Forrest Sherman in there and they were ok. Did the North Carolina and it was pretty nice. Now I'm working on the Trump Hood, looking good as well.

PE is the difference between a plain model, and one that stands out. You have to have patience while you get the hang of it, but it is worthwhile.

Steve

Yeah...its a bit intimidating.

I have already built the Bismarck and King George V without PE and I'm finishing the Enterprise (all Tamiya 1/350) without PE. I still have the Hood and Missouri (1/350) to go...as well as the Fletcher. Unless things go horribly wrong, I think I will still try PE on Missouri. If I still can't get it straight, Hood will be OOB.

mfsob,

You're absolutely right.  And at the risk of re-opening old wounds on a dead horse from last month regarding Pat Hawkey's editorial, the message I got from him was "don't get paralyzed by trying to be too perfect".  In this case, I think I had been thinking like Stretchie which was attempting my first PE project on a model with a lot of it.  Probably not the right approach (start small), so I'll try a simpler PE project first (maybe a tank).  But if it makes me crazy, is no FUN, and/or keeps me from FINISHING, I'll do without--- even on the New Jersey.  Heck, what do real sailors need with all those hand rails anyway! 

TomB

P.S.  Despite your handle, you don't sound like such a M***F***S***O***B*** to me.  Keep up the good work and straight talk.  Thanks.

TB   

*smacks TB6088 around*

Take a deep breath and repeat after me: I am not building this model for the entire world to criticize. I am building it for ME, for the enjoyment that I get out of the assembly and painting and detail work, and for the feeling of satisfaction and quiet accomplishment I get when I finish it.

Everything else, including other's opinions, is secondary to what you get out of the hobby. If, when you complete a project, you look at it and say, I like it - then it's a good model. Do what you want to do at the speed you want to do it at, and remember, we're doing this because it's fun!

Stretchie,

I'm finishing up the 1/350 Tamiya Fletcher class (my first surface ship) without any PE parts, and like you I have been disappointed at the small size (someone referred to them as "cracker-jack" size) of these models.  I decided I'd like to work on something larger next time so I bought the 1/350 Tamiya USS New Jersey (which definately took a bite out of my bank account).  I've been reading Mike Ashey's Basics of Ship Modeling and he flat out states that PE detail sets are a must, so I was intending to buy a detail set for the New Jersey (another costly item).  After reading the responses to your post, however, I'm now rather intimidated by the whole idea and feel stuck between attempting the New Jersey with PE parts (which it seems I am likely to screw up or never finish), or just building it out of the box without the aftermarket detail parts.  Does anyone ever build an expensive kit like the New Jersey out of the box?  Does it end up looking like crap?  Am I in over my head.............(I guess that's a given).

TomB   

Well....all the parts are here. I just need to get the Big E done and off the workbench. Hopefully I'll be able to start it this weekend.

that Fletcher is small! I didn't realize the difference in size. I have never seen a CVN or a DD in real life, so it was a bit of a shocker. Now I know why the PE pieces are so small.  

I might be a bit disappointed with my previous three builds. Has anyone gone back and added PE to an already built model????

Can't wait to get started.  

stretchie wrote:

Ok...I got the photo etch from GMM. I know this is a family forum, so I won't say what came to mind My only experience with phote etch to this point has been the two Trumpeter kits; Morser Karl and Leopold, both in 1/35. It seemed relatively easy. As I look at this fret from GMM I now realize why it and the Fletcher were recommended as a first kit. holy smokes!!!! thats some fine detail. I hope I do this build justice. If I can get it half as nice as ChuckO's I'll consider it a success. Pictures will be taken and I'll post them when I'm done.    cheers

   Those frets look pretty cool when they come don't they? Just take your time and try to picture a couple steps ahead so you don't add something before you should. I built each section seperately and complete before attaching to the painted hull. The main thing to remember doing it that way is to test the fit again after the sections are painted and before you detail them. That was my big mistake on that model, you notice the center section does night sit tight to the deck, by the time I realized it everything was already covered with fragile little brass peices and I was reluctant to get too heavy handed at that point.

  I'm sure yours will come out just as good or better. I've only been modelling for a couple years and that one is only my fifth model ever. 

Ok...I got the photo etch from GMM.

I know this is a family forum, so I won't say what came to mind

My only experience with phote etch to this point has been the two Trumpeter kits; Morser Karl and Leopold, both in 1/35. It seemed relatively easy.

As I look at this fret from GMM I now realize why it and the Fletcher were recommended as a first kit. holy smokes!!!! thats some fine detail.

I hope I do this build justice. If I can get it half as nice as ChuckO's I'll consider it a success. Pictures will be taken and I'll post them when I'm done. 

cheers  

i have heard the same and i am investigating it myself. until then, i will just stay away from them. as far as i'm concerned, i know WEM and GMM are legit and have all i'm looking for so they will get my business. although i've only ordered from GMM so far.

so far........its just the beginning, i fear.  

I've been leery of using any PE from Lion's Roar because there has been talk on this board, and others, of them, ummmmm ... producing frets that bear an astounding resemblance to PE frets put out by reputable companies like Gold Medal Models and White Ensign Models.

EdGrune wrote:

Good choice on the Fletcher.   Have fun with it. The kit comes with some 1:350 scale painting diagrams.    I found that it was possible to make Xerox copies of the diagrams and use them as masks.

i'm stocking up on masking tape now.  

stretchie wrote:

Thanks for the input. I think I'm going to get the Fletcher and the PE from GMM. I'm also going to pick up that book from them too. The Fletcher will also be my first crack at the camo of the super structure. Up to now, I haven't tackled that part of either the King George or the Bismarck. I think it looks awesome and I think I'm going to give it a go on this one. Thanks again for the wise suggestions........I'm off to do some ordering.

Good choice on the Fletcher.   Have fun with it.

The kit comes with some 1:350 scale painting diagrams.    I found that it was possible to make Xerox copies of the diagrams and use them as masks.

Thanks for the input. I think I'm going to get the Fletcher and the PE from GMM. I'm also going to pick up that book from them too.

The Fletcher will also be my first crack at the camo of the super structure. Up to now, I haven't tackled that part of either the King George or the Bismarck. I think it looks awesome and I think I'm going to give it a go on this one.

Thanks again for the wise suggestions........I'm off to do some ordering.  

GMM offers a 'Ship Modelers Handbook' giving tips and methods for placing their products on models. I purchased this publication along with my first GMM PE set (1/350 BB Missouri) and studied it before placing any PE parts. The handbook was a great help to me as a beginner. 

Since then I have completed the Bismark, KGV and Mikasa with GMM PE sets and the Arizona and O'Brian Liberty ship with Tom's Modelworks PE sets.

Things get easier as you go along. The 20mm and 40mm gun builds are tedious but become easier as you learn what works to make the builds quicker and less trouble.

In January I completed two 1/72 type 7c uboats as a single display combining the Yankee Model Works pressure hull kit, four CMK resin inserts and four figure sets, White Ensign torpedo loading PE and resin kit, Nautilus Models wood deck kit, Revell figures set and some scratch built parts.

Working with the PE sets led me to more ambitious projects. I am placing small motors in WWII propeller aircraft to turn the props using an external power source.

Dick Wood wrote:

Ed has some very good points. But he forgot to add that GMM maked a PLUS set for the Mo. I built the Tam Mo with both sets plus I added fPE loated baskets, and PE reels. It was expensive, and it took a fair amount of time, over a year. The SK radar is time consumimg as well and very delicate, and its easy to mess up big time.

I chose not to include the GMM Plus set because it is an set offered for use IN ADDITION to the basic PE set offerings.   I felt it would have been confusing.  I was trying to compare apples & apples.   WEM has a similar additional set.   Both get you additional light weapon details and gun tub ready racks. 

The GMM Plus set is another USD$42.00 (MSRP) on top of the $42.00 basic set.

The WEM Plus set is another USD$48.20 (MSRP) on top of the $83.21 basic set.

(I really wish the exchange rate was better!)

This continues to demonstrate my point that using either the Missouri or Hood as a learner kit is an expensive proposition when compared to the Fletcher or England.    

Novice mistakes will be made.   I made them.  Others I've talked with made them.   I still make them, but hopefully not as often and not as serious - and I've learned how to recover

   Dick and Ed make a good point about starting with a smaller kit, good advice though if you're determined to do a battleship go for it. My first project was about three years ago, a fully rc converted Tamiya Misouri with Tom's Modelworks PE. But then a lot of people might point out that I'm not exactly normal.

  If you're the kind of person who is easily frustrated you should probably start with a smaller project, the Tamiya Fletchers do build into nice little display peices.

Ed has some very good points. But he forgot to add that GMM maked a PLUS set for the Mo. I built the Tam Mo with both sets plus I added fPE loated baskets, and PE reels. It was expensive, and it took a fair amount of time, over a year. The SK radar is time consumimg as well and very delicate, and its easy to mess up big time.

We want you to get a good start in this part of the hobby, and I think the USS England is a very good start, and will give you the chance to develop your skills, and finish in a reasonable time.

 Did I forget to mention that on the Mo there are 48 40mm guns and each take 5 pe parts alone!!! I also used L'Arsinals quads with photo etch. 16 of them. As you can tell it still has affected me in that I can quote the parts!!

Here is a link to some photos of the finished model

http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/bb/bb-63/350-dw/dw-index.html

I would recommend neither as a first ship photoetch project.   Both are large projects with lots of little fiddley bits.   Both are relatively expensive, with the photoetch sets becoming very much so.  You may become hesitant to dive into the projects for fear of screwing up the expensive material.   The project will seem to go on forever with no end in sight.

What I would recommend is a photoetch learner kit.  A smaller project with fewer parts.   You will have the satisfaction of seeing the end of the project, and by completing it you will have the knowledge and confidence to undertake a larger, more complex project.

What I would recommend is the Tamiya USS Fletcher or the Trumpeter USS England.  Both are 1:350 scale and are relatively inexpensive as is the brass.   Being less expensive you will not fret as much when you make mistakes -- and you will make mistakes.  You will be able to see either of these projects to completion and gain the knowledge and confidence to undertake the larger project.

VV edit

Let me run some numbers past you.   The following are MSRP in US Dollars.   Your purchase price may vary:

Tam Missouri      $105.00    GMM PE $42.00    or WEM PE $83.21

Trump  Hood      $116.99    GMM PE $42.00    or WEM PE $83.21

Trump England    $ 33.00    GMM PE $20.00    or WEM PE $33.24

Tam Fletcher      $ 36.00    GMM PE $32.00    or Flagship PE $38.00 *

(* WEM does not make a Fletcher PE set.   The Flagship PE set for the Fletcher is equivalent.  I do not recommend Toms Modelworks PE to a novice (even thought they are less expensive) because the brass is softer and smashes easier.)

You can see, that at 200 dollars - the Hood can be an expensive learning tool.  But for less than  75 you can learn the techniques which you can then apply to either the Hood or Missouri later.

^^ edit

I am also considering adding the Revell Emden German WWI cruiser to my list of learner ship kits.   The photoetch is only available from one source (GMM) as opposed to multiple sources for the other kits.   

I do not recommend the Trumpeter USS Sullivans destroyer for a novice kit.  There are too many issues with the kit which need to be addressed for a novice to undertake.

OOPS!

sorry about that.

these are in 1/350. I have the Tamiya Missouri and the Trumpeter Hood. 

   What scale? I only do 350th, but in that scale I can say Gold Medal and White Ensign both make beautiful detail sets for Missouri, I plan to do another one static display only and am leaning towards the GMM sets.

  For Hood I would probably pick Lion Roar for first choice, WEM second.