Pirate Guns - Pistols aboard ships

CaptainBill03 wrote:

Since I have a real Flintlock pistol, a Flintlock long gun, and a working Matchlock why would I want models?

I never fired a matchlock. Out of curiosity how fast does the powder ignite once you pull the trigger? 

Good morning

The matchlock mechanism is really a sprung double lever, long leg to hand, short let to match, so a while your fingers move thru an arc of an inch the match travels three inches.   It is extremely fast since the fine powder in the pan poured thru the touch hole on top of the course powder in the chamber.   You definitely need since it eye protection also spits in your face.

The hardest thing was finding suitable hemp to make match.  I learned from a friend, who visited Williamsburg that they get it from Hemp Emporium.

  So a tad slower than say a AR15 with match trigger and a titanium firing pin? lol

 I would like to fire a matchlock sometime just to check out the feel, Haven't seen anyone shooting one at the club yet though.

I've fired these weapons on many occassions.  The powder does indeed burn fast.  But, there is a noticeable delay when pulling the trigger.  It's kind of a "click-POW" series of sounds.  Now, I'll also mention the cloud of smoke from the powder igniting, the flash that can put spots in your eyes for a minute, especially when firing at night.  And let's not mention the burns you can get on your hand and arm, or your face if you're firing a long rifle. 

But, the balls from these weapons could do considerable damage to the human body.  You definitely do not want to be on the receiving end of a weapon of this type.

I tell you what, those Lindberg kits look pretty good.  I think crossed pistols would look good along side a good ship display....I'll have to order a couple tonight.

 Grymm

If the sole matchlock experience I've had is indicative of the genre, it's more of a click, sizzle, sizzle, BOOM with quite a delay between the trigger pull and the actual firing. Eye protection was a must, but we were told that the old-timers would merely close their eyes during the firing. They would aim, pull the trigger, clamp their eyes shut, wait for the shot, and re-open their eyes. It takes a fair bit of time for the smoke to clear as well.

I'm pleasantly surprised that they can offer 1:1 kits of any weapon for sale these days. Recently a local teenager pointed a toy gun (the kind with the bright orange cap on the barrel) at a passing motorist, and now has been charged with wilful mischief, illegal possession of a firearm, misuse of a firearm, intent to cause harm with a firearm and basically whatever else the police could think of. Considering the type of toy he had, the motorist who reported him should be told to grow up. Though frankly the kid should have his butt kicked hard for being stupid, as well. Excellent police work, however, it only took seven officers to make the bust! Sure, we have numerous unsolved murders, break-ins, and car thefts, but it's reassuring to know that our local Are Cee Em Pee can subdue a plastic toy toting terrorist teenager! I'm getting off topic, aren't I?

Bgrigg wrote:

If the sole matchlock experience I've had is indicative of the genre, it's more of a click, sizzle, sizzle, BOOM with quite a delay between the trigger pull and the actual firing. Eye protection was a must, but we were told that the old-timers would merely close their eyes during the firing.

  I've fired just about everything that spits lead at one time or other, except the matchlocks. This delay was what I was talking about, I believe the term is "lock time". Even  the typical caplock muzzle loaders  are significantly slower on ignition than modern arms. Flintlocks tend to misfire and are somewhat slower than the caplocks. I understand from heresay that the matchlocks are somewhat more reliable than the flintlocks, once the wick is lit, but have an even slower lock time.

I can see where the burning wick would be more reliable than the spark created by flint striking steel (frizzen IIRC), that is, as long as it was burning. The flint didn't require the "pre-ignition" stage so would be "quicker" to shoot. The percussion cap is far more reliable still, though I don't think any of them could be considered quick. None of those systems holds a candle to center or rim fired modern ammunition, but there is a certain charm to muzzle loaders that I can appreciate.

Appreciation being considerably different from a wish to deal with black powder in such a "hands on" way.

CaptainBill03 wrote:

Since I have a real Flintlock pistol, a Flintlock long gun, and a working Matchlock why would I want models?

Well, since I have a real submarine, a real aircraft carrier, a real cruiser, a real destroyer, etc., why would I want a model?? Come on now, because I like to build them. This rubbed me the wrong way, I guess. Sorry if I misread the intent of your reply.

Me too, Subfixer. Over here in the good old nanny-state UK, we're hardly allowed to look at real guns, let alone own or, heaven forbid, use them!

I have fond memories of the old Pyro models from the 1950s - they sparked my interest in weaponry.

Rick

Ahhhh...the good ole' U-S of A, where I can, to this day, still walk down the street with my trusty six shooter in tow. 

I digress....

Getting this thread back on track for a moment, I know that Lindberg is just taking advantage of the Pirates of the Carribbean movie that's out this summer (the trailer rocks by the way), but these kits, as far as I can tell, are modelled after actual historical weapons. 

So, trivia of the day is, can anyone name the weapons, the country they originated in, and if the weapons actually had anything to do with, or were used on ships of the era?  I will be buying all of these in the set.  I'm going to make a plaque for all of them to dress up the ship displays in my sons room....yeah, yeah, I know....I love my kids...alot.  Jacob has the 1:96 Cutty Sark on his bookshelf, and the large scale La Reale sits on it's own shelf on his wall.  To top it off, the Revell 1:96 Constitution will go on top of his Computer desk, and, if I get it done in time, HMS Victory will be on it's own shelf also.  So those four weapon replicas will look great as an additional display.

Hey, quick question.  I remember when I was a kid I built a couple of plastic models of some western "six shooter" pistols.  They were awesome little kits.  Does anyone know any links to some good sites that still carry plastic weapon kits?

Grymm

btw, Big Jake.  I'm looking into a few other sites for Xebec ship models.  I'll post them when I find them.  An old Navy friend of mine is looking them up for me.  I'm glad you like that one site I found.

Ahhhh...the good ole' U-S of A, where I can, to this day, still walk down the street with my trusty six shooter in tow.

   At least for a little while longer.  I haven't had the experience of firing match, or flintlock weapons, but I do have a number of cap lock. I have to wait 'til warmer weather, as most indoor ranges do not allow black powder weapons firing. Of the pieces I have, my favorite has to be the replica Walker Colt .44. What a pocket cannon that is!

   I remember the plastic kit guns....I remember cap pistols that really looked like actual firearms. I also remember the 1:1 wood model I built of my Dad's Winchester Mod 06 pump .22 cal., when I was a kid. I got "stopped" quite a few times, by the local constabulary. I would dutifully hand over my "weapon", and wait for the embarrased look on the officer's face, as soon as he hefted the "weight"of it. I always took those incidents as a compliment to my modelbuildinging "skills". Those were happier, more care free times.

Grymm wrote:

Hey, quick question.  I remember when I was a kid I built a couple of plastic models of some western "six shooter" pistols.  They were awesome little kits.  Does anyone know any links to some good sites that still carry plastic weapon kits?

I'm wondering if those were the 1: LifeLike/LS/Imai kits that popped up on LHS shelves in the mid-70s to mid 80s?

Was a pretty extensive line of kits at one point, with some right rare items, too.

I can remember two ranges of plastic, life-size gun kits that appeared in the fifties and (I think) early sixties.  The bigger range was from Pyro.  I have no idea how many kits were in it, but the ones I remember include a couple of eighteenth-century pistols, a Colt .44, a Winchester carbine, and an "African rifle."  The latter was enormous (maybe the longest plastic kit prior to the Revell Gato-class sub?), and adorned with all sorts of "gold" ornamentation.  Somebody brought one to one of our IPMS chapter meetings, and it created quite a sensation.

As I recall, the quality of those kits varied quite a bit - probably due to their having been designed and released over a fairly long period.  I seem to remember being disappointed with one of the eighteenth-century flintlocks, which had only a few pieces and was pretty crude.  On the other hand, I remember buying a Colt pistol that looked like the molds had been made directly from the real thing.  It had a super-realistic metal texture and lots of moving parts - including the cylinder and the hinged rod that ejected the empty cartridges.  I think there even was a linkage, with metal springs, inside the grip that connected the trigger with the hammer, so the builder could cock the hammer, pull the trigger, and hear a distinctly plastic "click" when the hammer hit the cartridge.

I think the Pyro line was quite a bit bigger than the few I've mentioned.  I'm pretty sure those "new" Lindberg kits are reissues of the Pyro ones - which also appeared for a while under the Lifelike label.

Revell also issued (briefly) a smaller range of life-size gun kits.  Those are listed in the appendix to Dr. Thomas Graham's fine book, Remembering Revell Model Kits.  They were a "Pepperbox," an eighteenth-century dueling pistol, a Derringer, a Colt .45, a "Pirate Blunderbuss," and a "Miquelet Arabian."  According to Dr. Graham, they appeared in the Revell catalog in 1955 and 1956, and stayed there till 1957.  Apparently they weren't particularly popular then or now; Dr. Graham gives their current prices on the collector's market as only $25-$35.

I can't recall having bought any of the Revell gun kits.  I don't imagine any of them were identical to the Pyro ones, but I can't say that for certain.

A comprehensive list of all the kits ever produced by Pyro would be extremely interesting.  That long-gone company really was a major player in the plastic kit industry for a long time.

Found them listed at greatmodels.com with a big

"NOT FOR SALE IN CALIFORNIA"

on the ad

I checked that site.  Unless you're looking somewhere else on the site, I think you found the Airsoft guns.  What I'm looking for are just plastic models.

JTilley, I know the guns you're talking about.  I built them when I was younger.  There was a Derringer, then there was some kind of multi-barrel pistol (name escapes me).  My prize was an old cavalry pistol.  Even at 1/1 scale the gun was huge.  I loved that model.  And it had all kinds of moving parts. 

I'd love to find some of these old kits. 

Grymm

I remember the LS 1/1 scale kits, but haven't seen them in a model shop in the UK for gotta be getting on for 20 years now.

I had an AK-47, an M16, a Colt 1911A, a German potato masher stick grenade & a couple of US grenades, a fragmentation one & a WP if memory servers.  My mate had an Auto Mag, which may well have came with metal hollow point cartridges. 

I found myself forever breaking the guns playing with the bolt & slide actions. The AK was quite fun because it you chambered a plastic cartridge, cocked it & fired it, the force of the plastic hammer striking the plastic firing pin often transmitted enough energy through to the cartridge to break it apart in the chamber. the M16 was a lot more weedy

Am guessing that they stopped selling them/ they got banned over here as they looked too realistic?

Grymm wrote:

What I'm looking for are just plastic models.

Hmm, I seem to remember (not on the Greatmodels site, but elsewhere) a "both"--it was an M16A1 plus M203 grenade launcher that was both kit and airsoft--go figure.

David Harris wrote:

the M16 was a lot more weedy

There's no lie, not a lot of mating surfaces if one was keeping it in disassemble-able form.  However, a bit of metal rod right down the barrel was quite salubrious.

Am guessing that they stopped selling them/ they got banned over here as they looked too realistic?

My, at the time, LHS owner, said that they were being sued by Goodyear for unauthorised use of "ABS" as a desrciptive, in destructions, on the tiny tube of glue, etc.

Had a bud who was working his way through the revolvers.  He was endlessly seeking a way to get the salt-n-pepper look of a first-generation Colt Single Action Army, too.