Rigging plans for Le Superbe/Le Glorieux. Also, where to buy bulk fittings cheaply.

Will, I think you could be right about the dolphin striker on the bowsprit and the lateen yard on the mizzen, I'm very surprised that AAMM would have got this wrong.  Their plans are a bit mixed, but I thought the Superbe plans were among the better ones. 

Does anyone know how I can find the earlier threads about this kit?  If I do a search for Superbe, I get "0 results".

Thanks

 

I will only comment on the bulk purchases.  Model Expo sells some of their rigging fittings in large packages.  Their catalogs often had a "bulk" section.

Model Shipways used to be the best source for blocks and rigging. But to do it right means ALOT of study and planning. There are more than just rigging blocks, there are the shroud blocks rings several different lines and sheets sails and sail handling rigging and about a half dozen knots to master for it to look good. I used to be able to rig a ship like that from memory but I burned out big time. Still have lots of books. Some already mentioned here. To that I would add the Anatomy of the Ship series on the Diana. Its a. Napolionic British frigate but it has some of the most concise rigging plans around and frankly there wasn't a whole lot of difference between French and British Naval rigging of this period.

Depends if the Heller kit is supposed to represent the Temeraire class 74 'Superbe' built in 1782, which was lost in 1795. That early 'end' date would make features like the absence of a dolphin striker, and even the retension of a lateen yard (even if the sail itself was rigged as a loose-footed gaff) rather more likely than not I would think?

http://collections.nmm.ac.uk/collections/objects/66517.html

http://modelshipworld.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=12335&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=0

Will

There used to be a set of plans available for the 74 gun ship that Boudriot drew and were considerably cheaper than the set of books.  But even if you could find a set, they would probably be more than $50.  But I am a little confused.  The AAMM plans and photos for Superbe show the dolphin striker on the bowsprit and the boom at the foot of the spanker on the mizzen.  This is different from the Boudriot plans, which are of an earlier design (pre-Sane).   I assumed both were correct and these differences only reflected the evolution of ship rig in the period.  Are the AAMM plans wrong in this respect?

The authoritative book for rigging 74-gun French ships like Le Superbe is "The Seventy-four Gun Ship," volume 3 (275 pages), by Jean Boudriot. There are 4 volumes and the set is expensive but I borrowed volume 3 from the Boston Public Library, no charge. The book illustrates every piece of standing and running rigging (as well as sails, mast construction and other details) although the exact belaying point is unclear for some lines. I've already built the large, 1/100 scale Heller kit of HMS Victory and bought Longridge's excellent book "The Anatomy of Nelson's Ships" which includes every piece of rigging, blocks, etc., which is similar on French ships.  Heller's kit of Le Superbe is lacking important detail and parts and seems to incorporate details from English 74-gun ships which are similar but different. For example, the mizzen mast channel, which the kit calls "mizzen mast shroud holder," is in the English location above the small side windows. The French location is below the windows.  One of the lower deadeye chains (thread in the kit) goes right across a gun port! There should be bumpkins which extend diagonally from the bow, either side of the bowsprit. There should be 2 sets of gamoning, only one in the kit. As other modelers have correctly noted, the rigging plan is totally ridiculous and should be ignored. Boudriot's book also describes paint colors for masts, yards and related parts which are very different from Heller's directions. For example, the book says all spars are black as are the lower masts. One of the missing details is a rail on the rear of each top. The martingale boom in the kit is not shown in the book. The low-cost Le Superbe kit is intended to represent the ship compared with an accurate, highly detailed model such as the 1/100 Victory ($200) which is an excellent kit that I also enhanced with details from Longridge's book.  I expect to add parts and most rigging to my Le Superbe kit for maximum effect. Blocks in bulk can be bought through Bluejacket Models (cast metal) or Warner Woods West, real wood in multiple scales. Good luck!

Hi,

you may find a lot of informations about Le Superbe/Le Glorieux including simplified rigging dimensions on following addresses:

http://img524.imageshack.us/my.php?image=uponygifmp9.gif

http://img426.imageshack.us/my.php?image=stehygiffi1.gif

http://img106.imageshack.us/my.php?image=brasyfmgifhb4.gif

http://img247.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gordingygifjo0.gif

http://img301.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kosatkystehovkygifaq2.gif

http://img420.imageshack.us/my.php?image=blindybp3.gif

http://img420.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bulinyfrpredpis1780qf2.jpg

http://img420.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bulinyglorieuxep2.gif

http://img420.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bulinydetailqr8.gif

http://img420.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vratiplachtayo0.gif

http://modelforum.upce.cz/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3389&postorder=asc&start=15

http://modelforum.upce.cz/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3389&postorder=asc&start=30

 

French regulations around 1780 are demonstrated in these plans:

http://www.modellismo-navale.it/MONOGRAFIE/museoTA/piani_museo/souvenir_de_marine/tavola_60.html

http://www.modellismo-navale.it/MONOGRAFIE/museoTA/piani_museo/souvenir_de_marine/tavola_59.html

 

There is one modeller following above mentioned advices, his beautiful model is here:

http://modelforum.upce.cz/forum/download.php?id=110742

http://modelforum.upce.cz/forum/download.php?id=93097

 

More pictures:

http://modelforum.upce.cz/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11038&postorder=asc

 

Hope this helps

We've talked about the Musee de la Marine plans series several times before; that's the series I referred to in my last post in this thread.  The problem is that, though they are in fact available in the U.S. (through Taubman's Plans Service), the prices are extremely high - especially in view of what one gets for one's money.  Apparently there is, for some reason, a huge difference between the European prices of these plans and the American ones.  (What would happen if an American tried to order them through a European supplier I don't know.)

The best, all-round source on French two-decked ships of the line of the eighteenth century is certainly Jean Boudriot's four-volume set, Le Vaisseau de 74 canons.  The price of those four volumes, unfortunately, is pretty astronomical (no matter where you buy them), but good libraries have them - and, I suspect, can make them available via the Inter-Library Loan service.

     Try the Association des Amis du Musee de la Marine, Musee National de la Marine, Palais de Chaillot 75116 PARIS or www.amis-musee-marine.net.  This organisation publish (for sale) monographs of French vessels (ranging from sailing to modern ships), one of which is "Le Superbe, vasseau c.1785" to a scale of 1/150; it comprises 1 plan and 2 photos (presumably of a model in the Musee).  You will have to ask about the cost which, in 2005, was 18 Euros; it's probably more by now.  Good luck. Flitch 

Hi Grahor,

I received your e-mail, but it doesn't contain your e-mail address. So I can't send a reply to you. 

Please, send me an e-mail (to  stefan.kr@azet.sk) directly from your e-mail account and not via  FineScale services.

Stefan.

There are a couple other excellent books by Boudriot that might help (most are in French), and the source for all his works, plus many others on French ships is at http://www.ancre.fr  The book 'Modeles Historiques' is probably your best bet, as it not only features the historic ship models from the Musee' Marine in Paris, but each one is viewed from just about every angle, in close up, and in color (I have a copy, great stuff).  Two or three 74's are dealt with, and you can pick and choose just how detailed you want to get at this scale!

I think SKorecko has it right.  Heller rigging instructions are notoriously awful; it appears that the people responsible for them simply didn't understand how rigging works.  I suspect the diagrams in that re-issued Revell Golden Hind are the ones that came with the original Revell version.  They are, indeed, excellent - somewhat simplified from reality (as is almost inevitable in plastic sailing ship kits), but simplified in an intelligent manner by somebody who knew what he was doing.

Jean Boudriot is the dean of French naval architectural history in the sailing ship era.  His books are not only informative but superbly illustrated; he's a modern master of the dying art of traditional drafting.  The one big problem with all the Boudriot books is that they're extremely expensive.  But if you can arrange to buy, beg, borrow, or steal a copy of Le Vaisseau de 74 Canons, you won't regret it.  The four volumes in that set would almost tell you how to build a real ship of the line.

The Friends of the Musee de la Marine also publish a set of plans for Le Superbe.  In the U.S., the plan sets from that source tend to be extremely expensive for what you get.  As I understand it, though, they're considerably cheaper in Europe.  That source might be worth checking.

Hi Grahor,

You are right; the rigging plans for Glorieux/Superbe are nonsense. This is quite usual in Heller’s kits of sailing ships. The omission of blocks is also usual. I suppose, that the "Pirates and Corsaires" kit you refer to is a slightly modified version of Golden Hind with cat. no. 52703. And Heller’s Golden Hind (cat. no. 80829) is in fact Revell’s kit from mid sixties (in scale about 1/90). On the other hand, the Glorieux/Superbe kit are Heller’s own kits (from 1977-78).

 

I’m starting to build the kit of Superbe, so I have to cope with the same problem. I think that the best resource is the Volume III of “THE 74 GUN SHIP” by Jean BOUDRIOT.

I borrowed the book via international interlibrary services. I found everything I needed (and much more) there. Just send me an email, if you want more information.

 

Stefan.