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old Titanic

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  • Member since
    February 2007
  • From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
old Titanic
Posted by T-rex on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 11:21 AM

In a small atique shop I was skock to fine a model of the famous HMS Titanic, is a small 1/700 but its the only titanic model i've found. I'm really interestead in the Titanic and its wreck, but I didn't bought it cause I was even more shock that this model was manufacteur in 1960 or yougher I believe, yes a 40 year model that hasn't been finish yet still in tis box, the box been open of course but most of all the pieces are in there.

What I want to know is that model mit have a diffrent assembly instruction or a diffrence in something from all the modern model of today, I know they weren't as accurate, but were they hard or easier to build?

Working on: Trumpeter SU-152 (1/35) Trumpeter E-10 (1/35) Heller Somua (1/35)

"The world is your enemy, prince of a thousand enemy. And when they'll find you, they will kill you... but they will have to catch you first ''

  • Member since
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  • From: Lacombe, LA.
Posted by Big Jake on Friday, April 13, 2007 11:54 AM

T-rex,

Is there any chance that you could revisit the kit and let us know of the manufactuer?  I was not aware of one being produced in the '60's. Are you sure it's not the early revell 1/570 version, about 13" long? I know that there is a small 1/1200 scale version about 9" long but no other.

 Jake

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    February 2007
  • From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posted by T-rex on Friday, April 13, 2007 12:38 PM
Ow sorry, I don't rememder the manufacture company the box is fairly unclear after all the years, but I beleive its Revell, definatly not Dragon, tamiya and academy, but there are some model companies that i don't know. I can assure you that this kits is older than the 80's and it mit been a smaller scale than 1/700.

Working on: Trumpeter SU-152 (1/35) Trumpeter E-10 (1/35) Heller Somua (1/35)

"The world is your enemy, prince of a thousand enemy. And when they'll find you, they will kill you... but they will have to catch you first ''

  • Member since
    March 2005
  • From: West Virginia, USA
Posted by mfsob on Friday, April 13, 2007 9:00 PM
Sounds like the old Revell kit to me, that thing has been around forever. Measure the hull pieces from bow to stern - if it's 18 1/2-inches long, it's the Revell kit in 1/570 scale.
  • Member since
    February 2007
  • From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posted by T-rex on Monday, April 16, 2007 2:48 PM
Ya that's the one, the scale seems famillier, and the model could be as old as the 1930's.

Working on: Trumpeter SU-152 (1/35) Trumpeter E-10 (1/35) Heller Somua (1/35)

"The world is your enemy, prince of a thousand enemy. And when they'll find you, they will kill you... but they will have to catch you first ''

  • Member since
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  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Monday, April 16, 2007 10:24 PM

According to Thomas Graham's excellent book, Remembering Revell Model Kits, the Revell 1/570-scale Titanic was originally released in 1976.  The kit number was #H-445.  It stayed in the Revell catalog under that number until 1980 (which is when the coverage in Dr. Graham's book stops.  I believe it's been reissued under at least one other number since then, and is in the current catalog of Revell-Monogram.

Though the younger generation takes the plastic model kit for granted, it's actually a relatively new concept.  There's no such thing as a plastic model kit from the 1930s.  There's room for debate about what the first genuine plastic model kit was, or when it was released.  (The Gato-class submarine originally made by a company called Varney, in the very late 1940s, is as good a candidate for the title as any.)  The first kits under the Revell name appeared in 1951.  They were antique cars (a 1910 Model T Ford, a 1903 Model A Ford, a 1903 Cadillac, a Stanley Steamer, and a 1905 Packard).  They were modified versions of kids' "pull toys." 

Revell's first ship kit was the 1/535 U.S.S. Missouri, which was originally released in 1954 and, incredibly, is still on the market under the Revell-Monogram label.  (All this information, again, comes from Dr. Graham's book.)  The Titanic actually is one of the more recent ones.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: Exeter, MO
Posted by kustommodeler1 on Saturday, April 21, 2007 4:56 PM
 jtilley wrote:

Revell's first ship kit was the 1/535 U.S.S. Missouri, which was originally released in 1954 and, incredibly, is still on the market under the Revell-Monogram label.  (All this information, again, comes from Dr. Graham's book.)  The Titanic actually is one of the more recent ones.

And two of my favorite kits still to this day. The Missouri kit is great to build, especially in waterline form, as the hull is inaccurate at the stern (Iowas had a twin skeg hull form). The Titanic kit is nice too, a very clean and attractive build straight out of the box. 

Darrin

Setting new standards for painfully slow buildsDead

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Saturday, April 21, 2007 7:35 PM

Revell had an excellent excuse for getting the underwater hull shape - and various other things - wrong in its original Missouri.  In 1954 the plans of the Iowa-class battleships - and especially their underwater hull lines - were still classified.  (Dr. Graham's book quotes Anthony Bulone, long-time kit designer, as saying that "the military wouldn't give us the time of day.")  Right about at the end of the war the Navy published a series of "model builders' plans" that gave reasonably accurate, but vague, outlines of what its most famous ships looked like.  I imagine the Revell kit was based on those - along with, as Dr. Graham says, publications like Jane's Fighting Ships.

That problem with classified plans probably explains why several early Revell ship kits had those odd, semi-waterline hulls.  The S.S. United States, for instance, was cut off a few feet below the scale waterline and had a flat bottom.  (The real ship was built under a government subsidy, with the proviso that in wartime she would be made available to the Navy as a high-speed troop transport.  Her underwater lines were a closely-kept secret until, I believe, at least the 1960s.)  The kits came with trestle-shaped stands for mounting; in those days it apparently didn't occur to anybody that there was something strange about a flat-bottomed ship sitting on trestles.

A comparison between the old Revell Missouri and the new, 1/700 waterline version from Tamiya provides an instructive illustration of how the plastic scale model industry has evolved in fifty years.  Frankly I question the ethics of selling a 1954-vintage kit in a box that leads the consumer to think it's a "new" kit.  But it's a great exercise in nostalgia.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    February 2007
  • From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posted by T-rex on Monday, April 23, 2007 4:59 PM

The first plastic ever send to the market was in the same time that the real R.M.S Titanic sank, in the 1910's but the only scale model at that time were made of wood. It wasen't until WW2 when they started getting better detail to identify enemy vehicules, by the 60's the first real plastic scale models were made. Now there bigger, better and harder thatn ever.

I could tell this model was old because the cover of the box looked like it was drawed on rader than a image or a print. also the lack of extreme detail, such as the cables and other assesories aren't with the kit, they mit have been thakend out or the plastic molds at that time weren't as good as today.

The oldest model I have today is a B-17 flying fortess for the 1980's and most or its pieces are still in the box, only a few propellers are missing and the battery engine.

Working on: Trumpeter SU-152 (1/35) Trumpeter E-10 (1/35) Heller Somua (1/35)

"The world is your enemy, prince of a thousand enemy. And when they'll find you, they will kill you... but they will have to catch you first ''

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 3:30 AM

T-rex, I'm having a little trouble understanding your last post.  But here's a little historical information on the plastic kit.

The Titanic sank in 1912.  Plastic, as we understand the term today, didn't exist at that time.  The first model kits, as we would recognize them, originated in the 1920s or thereabouts.  (I've seen advertisements for ship model kits from that time that consisted of boards, sticks, and pieces of metal and paper - what we'd probably call scratch-building supplies today.  And a few companies, such as Cleveland Models, were producing flying model airplane kits made of balsa wood and tissue paper.)

People have been building wood ship models at least as far back in time as the ancient Egyptians - and maybe longer than that.  By 1912 some extremely sophisticated (and large) ship models were being built - all from scratch.  (The maritime museum where I used to work had some from that period that were really exquisite - as big as fifteen feet long.)

The first plastic material that got mass distribution in the consumer market seems to have been the stuff called celluloid.  It was cheap and fragile; it melted very easily and deteriorated quickly. It actually seems to have been in use for some purposes as early as World War I; clear "inspection panels" on WWI aircraft were sometimes made of celluloid.  The first consumer goods made out of plastic seem, from what I can tell, to have been things like combs and hair brush handles - things that previously had been made out of wood or rubber.  Plastic attracted the manufacturers because it was cheap.

The first "plastic models," so far as I know, were airplanes and ships made for the U.S. government during World War II.  The Army Air Forces and the Navy commissioned "recognition models" of friendly and enemy aircraft, generally on 1/72 scale.  (That seems to have been the origin of that scale's popularity among airplane modelers.)  Many of those model airplanes were made of wood, but some were simple plastic castings.  The Navy bought thousands of little shiop models, on the scales of 1/500 and 1/1200, for use in ship identification classes.  Most of them were made of wood and/or metal.  When I was going through the boxes of WWII recognition models at the museum where I used to work, though, I found one box full of merchant ship models that were cast in a plastic material (celluloid or something similar).  By the time I saw them, those particular models had all warped into the shapes of bananas, and were oozing an ugly, oily substance that smelled like vinegar.  We had to throw them out.  Those early forms of plastic didn't last more than a few years.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, there's some argument about what the first plastic model kit was.  The earliest one I've heard about was an American Gato-class submarine, produced by a company called Varney in 1948 or 1949.  It had a simple, one-piece, cast plastic hull and a few other parts.  (Varney's main product was model railroads.  Maybe the company was making a few plastic railroad cars by 1948; I'm not sure about that.)  The Varney submarine molds were later bought by Lindberg; the kit, in a slightly modified and improved form, is still available under the Lindberg label.

Plastic kits started really catching on in the early 1950s.  Revell, which was the industry leader for a long time, started out as a manufacturer of ladies' cosmetic products.  (The name "Revell" appeared for the first time on a ladies' cosmetic compact, during World War II.  All this information comes from Dr. Thomas Graham's fine book, Remembering Revell Model Kits.)  In the late 1940s several companies were experimenting with plastic as a material for making kids' toys.  The first Revell model kits were cars; they were modified versions of toys, sold in separate pieces on the hunch that purchasers might enjoy putting them together.  The idea caught on in a hurry.

The first Revell ship kit was, as I mentioned earlier, the Missouri.  In its original form it included an electric motor.  It made quite a splash in the then-infant hobby industry (which mostly consisted of balsa wood airplane and ship kits).  Revell started producing plastic kits of lots of subjects - airplanes, cars, ships, horse-drawn vehicles, tanks, space ships, pistols, and even animals (a squirrel, a kitten, a puppy, and a koala bear).  By 1960 the Revell product line included well over a hundred kits; there's a list of them in the appendix of Dr. Graham's book.  Several other companies, including Monogram, Lindberg, Hawk, Strombecker, Renwall, Premier, and ITC (Ideal Toy Corporation) in the U.S. and Airfix and Frog in England, were also in the game.  By the end of the 1950s building plastic models was "America's number one hobby," especially among boys.   

The Revell Titanic was first released in 1976.  (According to Dr. Graham, "Revell thought a long time before making this model; after all, who would watnt to make a model of a ship that sank?")  One reason they decided to do it was that another Titanic kit was already on the market.  A Japanese company had produced a big, 1/350-scale Titanic a couple of years earlier; it was first sold in the U.S. by a company called Entex, and it's reappeared several times in other companies' boxes.  I'm pretty sure that Entex 1/350 kit, from the mid-1970s, was the first plastic Titanic.  It is, even by the standards of 2007, a pretty good model.  The old Revell kit isn't bad, but by comparison to the latest ship kits it's pretty simple and, in some ways, almost primitive in its detailing. 

According to Dr. Graham's book the going price for that Revell Titanic kit in its original box is $10.00 to $15.00.  Compared to some of the rarer Revell kits, that's not much.  (That's probably because the kit has been reissued several times since then; it isn't hard to find.)  By comparison, the Revell science-fiction "Space Station," kit #H-1805, released in 1959, is estimated to sell for $800.00 - $900.00.  Keep an eye out for it.

I remember when the Revell Titanic was released.  I was working in a hobby shop at the time; the kit was a pretty good seller.  It originally appeared in a typical Revell box with a color painting on the cover.  I think the box T-rex's is in may not be original; if it has a picture "drawn" on it, maybe the original owner drew it.  T-rex - if you can post a picture of the box here, maybe somebody in the Forum can help identify it.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    February 2007
  • From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posted by T-rex on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 3:55 PM

I beg to differ, I hear on daily planet (discovery channel)  that they recover Titanic artifact, one of them was a hairbrush that was thought to been made of ivory (mostly elephant tusk) except the hairbrush was acually made of plastic, a new substance made in that time, only the 1st class can affort this, but it wan't use for model at that time, too expensive.

Now its offical the titanic model I saw was the Revell Titanic, its date 1976 would explain why its at a antique shopt and your description of the cover is the same, "It originally appeared in a typical Revell box with a color painting on the cover". I didn't say it was draw right on the box just look like its was badly draw or painting on the cover. Unfortunatly I may never get a image of this box, its in B.C and its nearly 12 hours of drive to get there, also maybe its been bought by someone else, thank for the info anyways really helpful for the kitBig Smile [:D]

Working on: Trumpeter SU-152 (1/35) Trumpeter E-10 (1/35) Heller Somua (1/35)

"The world is your enemy, prince of a thousand enemy. And when they'll find you, they will kill you... but they will have to catch you first ''

  • Member since
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  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 6:45 PM

That hairbrush probably was cast in celluloid or something similar.  As I noted in my last post, that material was available by World War I (which started in 1914 - two years after the Titanic sank), and women's grooming products were among the first consumer goods made out of it.

It also probably should be noted that clear plexiglas (or perspex, as the British call it) came into mass production sometime between the world wars.  Aircraft canopies and gun turrets were frequently made out of it; almost every famous airplane of the World War II period had a plexiglas canopy.  Another early form of plastic was acetate.  (Come to think of it,that probably was what those World War I airplane inspection panels were made of - and maybe the Titanic hairbrush too.)  Acetate, like celluloid, is a relatively cheap but not very durable material.  Some of the first plastic model kits were made of acetate.  Polystyrene, the material of choice for plastic scale models today, seems to have been introduced in the very early 1950s.  That's what I meant by "plastic as we know it."

So...a model kit produced in 1976 is now considered appropriate to be sold in an antique store!  I celebrated my 26th birthday that year.  I feel old...but that happens frequently these days.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    February 2007
  • From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posted by T-rex on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 10:18 AM
At my  hobby shop I found another Revell Titanic model, but it wasn't the same model as the one at the atique store, its scale is much smaller 1/1200  and much newer. It must have been another model!

Working on: Trumpeter SU-152 (1/35) Trumpeter E-10 (1/35) Heller Somua (1/35)

"The world is your enemy, prince of a thousand enemy. And when they'll find you, they will kill you... but they will have to catch you first ''

  • Member since
    January 2006
Posted by EPinniger on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 11:32 AM

The moulds for the 1/1200 Titanic were produced fairly recently (late 1990s I think; not long after the Titanic film) by Revell Germany.
I built it earlier this month - it's not a bad kit considering the tiny scale. Many parts are overscale or clumsy-looking (notably the cranes and the ladders on the funnels), but it looks pretty good when assembled and painted carefully. Unlike most of the Revell 1/1200 ships, which originated from the Italian manufacturer Casadio, it is a full-hull model.

Two other 1/1200 liners produced by Revell are the Queen Elizabeth II and the cruise ship Aida. The latter is definitely a recent Revell Germany issue but I'm not sure about the origin of the QE2 moulds. 

With my Titanic model, I replaced the cables on the cranes with fine metal wire, and added "shrouds" to the masts using the same material - otherwise it was built out of the box (I built this kit on holiday, hence was limited in the tools, materials and references I had available; otherwise I might have tried to make replacements for the ladders, stairs, vents etc. out of PE scrap and styrene stock).
(I'll post a few photos of my diminutive Titanic model if anyone is interested in seeing it!)

  • Member since
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  • From: Walworth, NY
Posted by Powder Monkey on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 4:05 PM
 EPinniger wrote:

(I'll post a few photos of my diminutive Titanic model if anyone is interested in seeing it!)

 

I would love to see the pictures. I have this kit at home on the shelf.

  • Member since
    February 2007
  • From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posted by T-rex on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 5:28 PM

Sure why not, post those photos,

I mostly like large scale model of all kind perferaly 1/35 cause you get to see the fine details but ship are so big that they mit not fit in your house if they were that size, the largest model ship scale I saw was the Brismack 1/72 at a museum.

Working on: Trumpeter SU-152 (1/35) Trumpeter E-10 (1/35) Heller Somua (1/35)

"The world is your enemy, prince of a thousand enemy. And when they'll find you, they will kill you... but they will have to catch you first ''

  • Member since
    January 2006
Posted by EPinniger on Friday, April 27, 2007 7:20 AM
 T-rex wrote:

Sure why not, post those photos,

I mostly like large scale model of all kind perferaly 1/35 cause you get to see the fine details but ship are so big that they mit not fit in your house if they were that size, the largest model ship scale I saw was the Brismack 1/72 at a museum.

I agree entirely (my preferred ship modelling scales are 1/72, 96, 144 and 200; also I've just started a Vosper MTB in 1/35) but these small models can be fun to build. When you've spent a couple of hours painstakingly scratchbuilding handrails and deck fittings for a 1/96 ship, it can be an interesting change to build something as simple and straightforward as a 1/1200 kit!

I'll take some photos of my Titanic model soon and post them here. 

  • Member since
    February 2007
  • From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posted by T-rex on Thursday, May 3, 2007 9:59 AM
Anyways, what is the larges and best model of the titanic model avalible to the market today?

Working on: Trumpeter SU-152 (1/35) Trumpeter E-10 (1/35) Heller Somua (1/35)

"The world is your enemy, prince of a thousand enemy. And when they'll find you, they will kill you... but they will have to catch you first ''

  • Member since
    January 2006
Posted by EPinniger on Saturday, May 5, 2007 1:02 PM

 T-rex wrote:
Anyways, what is the larges and best model of the titanic model avalible to the market today?

There are several Titanic kits in 1/350 and 1/400 scale, I'm not sure how many of these are reissues or copies of the same moulds though! Academy's 1/350 kit is probably the most widely available. These are the largest plastic kits of the Titanic available on the market.

Mantua (I think; it could be Amati) produce a 1/250 multi-media (mostly wood) kit of the Titanic. Given the very poor standard of both companies' kits of wooden sailing ships (just search for "HECEPOB" on this forum to see what I'm talking about) I'm not sure if the detail and accuracy of this kit lives up to its large scale and high price tag. However, I've never seen it, built or unbuilt, so I could be wrong! I'd be interested to know more.

  • Member since
    February 2007
  • From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posted by T-rex on Monday, May 7, 2007 9:39 AM
Oops, I stand incorrect Now I found the 1/570 Revell titanic model, but it was at micheals craft and art store, and it wasn't the same as the one at the antique store, therefore the model I saw at the antique store was a 1/700.

Working on: Trumpeter SU-152 (1/35) Trumpeter E-10 (1/35) Heller Somua (1/35)

"The world is your enemy, prince of a thousand enemy. And when they'll find you, they will kill you... but they will have to catch you first ''

  • Member since
    August 2004
  • From: Omaha Nebraska
Posted by FireFox31 on Wednesday, May 9, 2007 7:59 AM
gah, i still have nightmares, not to mention the scars that came with it when i built the older revell titanic back in 98, great historical subject but a pain in the butt..and fingers to build. Good luck with it T-Rex.
"Simple" "Budget Builder From Hell" Mike
  • Member since
    February 2007
  • From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posted by T-rex on Wednesday, May 9, 2007 9:37 AM
Revell's titanic 1/1200 is too small for me, never had I made a scale that small, beside the mast ladder (the ladder that goes up to the crows nest) is too fake, it looks like a stip rader than a ladder. the 1/570 looks much better, unfortunatly I don't know if I will ever see the old Titanic again.

Working on: Trumpeter SU-152 (1/35) Trumpeter E-10 (1/35) Heller Somua (1/35)

"The world is your enemy, prince of a thousand enemy. And when they'll find you, they will kill you... but they will have to catch you first ''

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