Russian "Super Battleships"{WWII}

There is a detailed builder's model sitting in the basement of a Leningrad naval museum all throughout the Soviet years.  It has now come to light.  So we actually have more direct official original  information on the Sovietskii Soyuz class than we have on Yamato, all of whose details had to be extracted from photographs.

 

Regarding the Sovietskii Soyuz - North Carolina class connection, the famous and influential American naval architect firm Gibb and Cox, responsible several WWII era us warship designs such as the Atlanta class light cruiser, and postwar luminaries as the liner SS United States, had done a series of contract work for the Soviet Government including submitting a range of detailed battleships design studies.   So it is possible the Sovietskii Soyuz had drawn on these American designs. 

DURR wrote:

a picture of what would have been never got past the laying down at the shipyards though http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/55/Sovetsky_Soyuz_class.jpg

 

It is a slight resemblance to the North Carolina.

I do have to admit this much, it would make an interesting modeling subject, sort of a "what If" situation. from what i've read lastnight about the fate of the projected super battleships from russia, it seems to me that they were almost as bad as the japanese when it came to trashing any actual records of them. Apparently they were very very thorough. Still it would have made things back then veeery interesting indeed with em running around.

Hi

It should be noted that for once the "higher-up" of the Navy proved to be right for once, they believed that the war effort put too much of a strain on the battleship program. What may have sparked a new battleship race once and for all died about 1949-1950.

Some say the Bismarck chase was the begining, but that was not so. In this case{in May of 1941}, torpedo bombers from the British carrier Ark Royal only damaged the steering gear. Thus allowing the British battleships to catch her{even if the Bismarcks crew scuttled her}. The begining of the end of the battleship era, was the air raid launched by the British carrier Illustrious against the Itallian naval base of Torranto. 28 Fairey-Swordfish{yes old tech. by-planes with hand crank starters},sank the battleship Conte Di Cavour, and some cruisers, and damaged several other ships in the harbor. And they also hit the fleet fuel tanks{unlike the Japanese attack a year and a month later.}and dock facilities. This in November of 1940, being an advance base the Itallian fleet was forced to withdraw to the north in Italy.

Torranto was a shallow natural bay area much as is Pearl Harbor, it was the British that first modified torpedos with "wooden fins" to run in a shallow harbor. It should be noted that Japan sent their best naval aviator to inspect the results of the attack. His name was Fuchida, and he used this knowledge to plan the actual physical air attack on Pearl Harbor. He was ordered to attack the ships in harbor, but not to hit the support facilities. Remember the Battle of Midway{not planned at the time of 7/12/41} was both an attemped to draw out the U.S. Navy(particularly the carriers}, and invade Midway and use it as an advance base the re-attack Pearl Harbor, and invade Ouahu.

The idea to invade Ouahu may have been on the "backburner"{so to speak}, but the Japanese planned other invasions elsewhere were thought to be more important. But again Japanese lack of planned "bold moves" doomed the Japanese war effort.

The attack on Pearl Harbor mearly signaled the vulnerability of the battleship in harbor, but the sinking of the battleship Prince of Wales, and battlecruiser Repulse at sea. Signaled the end of the battleship area.

Stve H.

a picture of what would have been

never got past the laying down at the shipyards though

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/55/Sovetsky_Soyuz_class.jpg

 SUbfixer is 110% right  but......

 

it would have been interesting to see a real russian navy in wwii,

in what it would have added to the history of the war as well as potential models for us to build

What ultimately ended the era of the battleship was the introduction of the aircraft carrier, not the destruction of some "super battleships".

This has been pretty well documented, and the details of these ships have become public after the fall of soviet union.

There were 4 battleships in the class.   The lead ship was named the Soviet Union.   The three sisters were each named after a Soviet Republic.    They would have displaced about 65,000 tons full load (Yamato = 72,000 tons full load, Montana = 71000 tons full load, and German H-class = 62000 ton full load).  They were very heavily armored, comparable in armor to the Yamato.  However they were more lightly armed, having 9 16" guns instead of Yamato's 18" guns.   They were intended to use Swiss built power plants running 3 shafts.  They were hydrodynamically very inefficient.  They needed 230,000 hp to do 28 knots.   That's 80,000 hp more than what Yamato needed to do 27.5 knots and 20,000 hp more than what Iowa needed to do 33 knots.   The design of the ships vaguely resembles the Italian Littorio class BB.   It is known that Mussolini's Italy gave Soviet Union extensive technical assistence during the 1930, and had offered a littorio based design to the Soviets.   The Soviets completed their own design for the Soviet Union class, but it drew heavily from the Italian design practice.   It also uses the otherwise uniquely Italian round tube underwater torpedo defense system.   The 16"guns were also Soviet designed, but based on Italian design principles.  So the guns were exceptionally powerful for their caliber, but have poor accuracy and short barrel life.

The Russians were also building a separate class of light battleships/battlecruisers.  The details on this class was more sketchy.  They were about 35000 tons full load and very fast, comparable roughly in size and speed to the German Scharnhorst.   German-Soviet non-aggression pact of 1939 contained a clause which stipulated that the Germans would provide full set of Bismark plans to the Soviets, along with 8 Bismark type 15" turrets.  It is not known what the Soviets wished to do with Bismark plans as there is no evidence they intended to copy the Bismark.  But the Bismark turrets were presumably intended for the battlecrsuiers.

   

 

 

Check out this website: 

http://www.combinedfleet.com/furashita/soviet_f.htm

I believe this is a fantasy fleet. Check out some of the other nation's ships such as this this ship from the US Navy.

That's definetly news to me. I really don't think that the russians could have pulled a project that big off at the time anyways. The only super battleships i knew of were the ones japan had in the planning stages after the Yamato class which were supposed to be fitted with 20 inch guns for its main weapons. As if the Yamato class weren't dangerous enough. Definetly an interesting idea though.

That is interesting info, where did you find the info on the Russian battleships, I would love to do more research on them.

Huh?