terminology questions

Those are too hard. Whats a "pintle" and a "gudgeon"?

styrenegyrene wrote:

Okay, folks. I've been thinking about starting this topic for a few days, and a posting in the thread about the Issac Hull model of "Constitution" drove me to do it.  Let's talk language, here. What's a "flush deck" destroyer?  What's a first or second futtock?  What is a sailing ship's "deadwood," and "stemson?"  I love the language of ships - what little I know of it!  I just recently learned what "leeway" really means.

A ship with a flush deck usually means a single deck with no separate higher or lower levels to that deck. I'll leave this to someone with more knowledge of modern warships than I. :)

A wooden ship's hull frames are made up of several pieces. The frame is made up in two layers with the end joints of one layer overlapping the end joints of the other layer. There is the floor timber which sits down on the keel, then are there several other pieces to that frame called futtocks. The first futtocks are nailed onto the face of the floor timber and their ends run out past the ends of the floor timbers. Then there is the second futtock and its ends butt against the upper ends of the floor timber. Then the third futtock's ends butt against the upper ends of the first futtock and so forth.  A typical frame will have a floor timber, first, second, third and fourth futtocks, port and starboard, and then a toptimber, also port and starboard. That means 11 pieces for each frame. This is a simplified explanation. If I could psot a sketch it would all become apparent in a second.

A wooden ship's deadwood is the several timbers that fills up the spaces in the ends of the ship in between the keel and the keelson. The frames rest on the keel and the keelson is a timber that sits down onto the frames, locking them down onto the keel. In the ends of the ship, especially aft, the frames do not sit on the keel, but rather nail into the deadwood. You need some deadwood to fit in between the keel and keelson so the frames will have something to nail into. Again a sketch would explain all this much better than words.

The stemson is another bit of internal structure that sits in behind the stem of the ship. It's lower end will fasten to the forward end of the keelson with a angled joint called a scarph joint.

If none of this makes any sense (no surprise given the hour) shoort me an email at rus3466@yahoo.com and I will try and scan some sketches for you. :)

Russ 

 

 

Russ39 wrote:

styrenegyrene wrote: Okay, folks. I've been thinking about starting this topic for a few days, and a posting in the thread about the Issac Hull model of "Constitution" drove me to do it.  Let's talk language, here. What's a "flush deck" destroyer?  What's a first or second futtock?  What is a sailing ship's "deadwood," and "stemson?"  I love the language of ships - what little I know of it!  I just recently learned what "leeway" really means. A ship with a flush deck usually means a single deck with no separate higher or lower levels to that deck. I'll leave this to someone with more knowledge of modern warships than I. :)

Compare the two photos from the US Naval Historical Center (USNHC)

 

The first is of a "flush deck" destroyer.   They were also known as 4-stack or 4-pipe destroyers for their four smoke stacks (funnels).   Note the level of the deck from the back (stern) to the front (bow).  With the exception of the raised gun deck in the middle (midships), the line of the deck was continuous.   There were no steps or breaks.

Now examine the second.  This is of a Farragut-class, which was the first design after the flush-deck destroyers of WWI.  Note the break in the levels of the main deck below the bridge.  This has what was known as a raised focsle (forecastle) or bow.   One of the purposes of the raised focsle was to improve sea-keeping and to help reduce wetness of the deck.

Comparing the two, you can see that in heavy seas the waves would come over the bow.  On the flush deckers there was little which would help shed the water and it would run the length of the deck.  On a raised focsle, the deck is higher with less water possibly coming onboard.  Also more of the water would be shed at the break and the afterdeck would be dryer and more workable.

Great!  The pics of the tin cans helps a lot.  As for the sailing ship stuff... yeah, I'll send you and email.  There are futtock shrouds that go around the top platform from the mast.  Are they related to the futtocks in the hull?  Or is it a similarity of shape?

re: wet destroyers - One of the carrier admirals of the US Navy - I recall it being Halsey - was tearing across the Pacific in heavy seas when the commander of his destroyer screen requested permission to surface.  The Bull slowed a little bit.  I've always thought tin cans were lovely, especially some of the Japanese ships.

There is no connection between futtock shrouds and frame futtocks. I have no idea where the terms came from, but they are different.

Russ

Those are too hard. Whats a "pintle" and a "gudgeon"?

 Pintles and gudgeons make up the "rudder hinges" the pintles are mounted to the sternpost, the gudgeons are fixed to the rudder.

Russ39 wrote:

There is no connection between futtock shrouds and frame futtocks. I have no idea where the terms came from, but they are different.

The only thing they share is that they "round up" from below.

Go figure: Futtock sections on hull drawings are longitudinal, perpendicular to the body sections.  (Can be as big a pain to loft up as diagonals, and no less important for fairing, either <sigh>.)

Ever read, "McAndrew's Hymn," by Kipling?  It's a night-long soliloquy (is that the word for talking to yourself?)  by a VERY Scots engineer on a steamship.  It's almost like a prayer, with lines like, "...Divine predestination in the stroke of yon connecting rod."  It has a LOT of steam engine parlance I've never really understood, but it's a magnificient piece of work.