Hipper vs Glowworm

Tricky;

I know Frog did a HMS Hero but that might have been in 1:500.  Otherwise it's as near as you're going to get to Glowworm's class which was relatively short, 323'.  I imagine the H's would be near sisters to the G's.

Then Tamiya did an E class destroyer to accompany their Hood - Waterline series 31806.  The E's were slightly older, slightly longer (6') but would probably suit your purpose with mods.  

As to Hipper, Tamiya has a waterline 1:700 Prinz Eugen - same class?

Incidentally, more photos at http://www.naval-history.net/WW2Ships-Glowworm.htm 

Michael 

HP Models makes several 1:700 scale G-class destroyers, sold as HMS Gypsy, HMS Grenade, and  HMS Gloworm

http://www.hp-models.com/index.php?module=pncommerce&func=categoryview&CategoryID=1&nosearch=1

While I doubt this is what you're looking for, I googled Glowworm and found this link:

http://www.gremirmodels.com/hms_glowworm.htm

It's a card model - 1:200 scale.  Interesting, though - for each kit, the webpage lists a brief history of the ship.

That picture shows one of those fascinating little details that one would never have even thought of if just building a kit (or at least I wouldn't have thought of it!).

The two cables that cross the Swastika painted on the forecastle have actually been over-painted to match it, and the starboard cable has rolled while the port has remained taut.  I would have expected these cables to be clinched tightly as depicted on most ship models.

Do you think the Swastika itself is painted black or has it just been left unpainted?

Michael 

According to eyewitness accounts the sea was unbelievably rough that day -

"The dawn of the 8th was wild, and revealed the formation to be in similar case.  The Erich Giese indeed was nowhere to be seen and neither could she see any other ship; her gyro room was flooded and she was doing her best to steer by a madly swinging magnetic compass."

"...the three ships were engaged for nearly an hour.  They pitched, rolled and turned, their guns blazing but without any recorded hits.  That was to be expected; in such weather the gunnery of those days tended to be full of sound and fury, signifying very little.  The ship most at risk was the Bernd von Arnim of the older class who had twice to stop to right herself after particularly vicious rolls at full speed, her bridge having scooped up half a metre of water from the sea."

The only ship with enough lateral stability to be sure of making hits was the Hipper, who showed up about an hour after the Glowworm engaged the two German destroyers (described above).

(quotes from Narvik, by Capt. Peter Dickens, RN)

Although it doesn't mean anything, since it's probably due to lighting and shadows, the swastika does look to be unpainted.

MJH wrote:

That picture shows one of those fascinating little details that one would never have even thought of if just building a kit (or at least I wouldn't have thought of it!). The two cables that cross the Swastika painted on the forecastle have actually been over-painted to match it, and the starboard cable has rolled while the port has remained taut.  I would have expected these cables to be clinched tightly as depicted on most ship models. Do you think the Swastika itself is painted black or has it just been left unpainted? Michael

...wow, i didn't even notice that...there are some other cool photos on the net that are very rare...one shows the Glowworm's severed stern floating in the water after she sunk with the Captain and other survivors climbing onto it (the Captain did not survive however)...the Germans actually recomended he be awarded the VC via the Red Cross and he was...

Gerarddm wrote:

If you look carefully just above the bow, there is a vertical separation line in the sea, clearly not a nautical phenomenon! This lines up with the swastika you mentioned: I bet this image was badly transmitted/copied, and that the original in fact shows the anchor chain in proper postion.

...good point...I also wondered if those might be gun tubes protruding from the front turret with camo on them...???

Try this link for pics.

http://www.hmsglowworm.org.uk/

David

Playing around with image editor:

The lettering you can;t see just says where the Hipper is and where the splash is, which is pretty obvious, The blue outline around the ship is trying to trace the outline iin the pic but the red is what I think it would look like minus smoke and with a clearer pic.

David

ww2modeler wrote:

Playing around with image editor: The lettering you can;t see just says where the Hipper is and where the splash is, which is pretty obvious, The blue outline around the ship is trying to trace the outline iin the pic but the red is what I think it would look like minus smoke and with a clearer pic. David

....those look like painted chains to me....

...what is the deal with the name: "Glowworm"? What system did the Brits use to name ships...of course the US system is well-documented:

Battleships: States

Cruisers: Cities

Aircraft Carriers: Revolutionary War Battles, Old Values/Principals, Presidents

???

Capital ships generally re-used names from the past, cruisers were often named for cities but destroyers seem to have been an open field excepting that the name began with the letter of the class.  They were generally built in batches of eight or ten and Gowworm's sisters were Griffin, Garland, Gallant, Gipsy, Grafton, Grenade, and Greyhound.  The preceding batch were of course the F class and the following, the H's.

Michael 

It began with the letter G.

They used different systems to be sure - here are some H-class destroyers: Hardy, Hotspur, Hunter, Hostile, Havock (and others). 

I'm not sure, but it certainly seems as though they had a destroyer class beginning with nearly every letter of the alphabet.

They also had the Tribal class - Eskimo, Punjabi, Cossack, Bedouin (and others).  these were reportedly created as a response to the German destroyers, which were significantly larger than any then-existing class of British destroyer.  The Tribals had eight 4.7-inch guns in dual mounts, as opposed to the typical single-mount configuration of the other classes in service in 1940.

Most classes were built with the intention that each class would comprise their own flotilla, and each class as a result had a slightly larger flotilla leader as a part of that class.  For the H-class, for example, the Hardy was the flotilla leader - she displaced 1505 tons, while the other members of the class displaced 1340 tons.

As for cruisers, I believe they used city names. 

Battleships and Battle Cruisers were named after Royal Navy heroes or royalty, such as Nelson, Hood, King George V, Prince of Wales, Queen Elizabeth - or abstract heroic concepts such as Repulse, Renown, Valiant, Warspite.  There was often no naming pattern within a class, although Nelson and Rodney were both naval heroes.  The Hood was originally part of a 4-ship class, but the Anson, Howe and Rodney were all cancelled (and again, all military heroes).

Carriers - well, here you can just go figure.  They started out with flight references - Eagle and Hermes.  After that they switched to Courageous and Glorious, so again, abstract heroic concepts.  Hey - they had a lot of ships, so I would guess they sometimes had to scrounge around for names.  Ark Royal was a traditional ship name - there had already been several RN ships of that name in the past.  But then they went back to the Illustrious class, where it looks like they tried to use a single letter but ran out of steam:  Illustrious, Indomitable, Implacable, Indefatigable, Victorious, Formidable.  Stretching it a bit, eh?

Then there are the Royal Navy's Town-class destroyers.  These were the 50 Lend-Lease WWI era destroyers leased to the RN by the US for certain future basing considerations (i.e. Bermuda to name one). 

All of these ships were re-named from their former US Navy names to the names of towns which were common to both England and the States.

The HMS Mansfield (for example) was the former USS Evans.  I would like to think it was named for Mansfield, Texas,  bit was more likely named for Mansfield, Ohio.

Courageous and Glorious were of course converted from two "large light cruisers" and simply retained those vessel's names.

I rather preferred the British system (or perhaps, non-system) of naming ships, it threw up some intriguing apellations but I especially like the resurrection of historic names.

For an amusing article on the subject go to;

http://home.swipnet.se/~w-11578/model_links.htm 

Michael 

Where did the Canadians and Austrailians fit into the shipbuilding and naming scheme?  I've had the notion, (hopefully based on some sort of reference material!) that the tribal and flower classes were all Canadian-built.

Not all, see; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribal_class_destroyer_(1936)

and; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flower_class_corvette 

Michael 

Yes they did.

Carriers were named after mythical birds or animals 

Battleships were named after either Japanese provinces or certain shrines

Cruisers were named after either mountains or rivers

Destroyers were named after weather concepts (like lightning, hurricane, etc.)

Submarines, of course, were simply numbered (the leading letter indicated what type of submarine it was, such as coastal, seagoing, etc.)

The Akagi, Kaga and Kongo class appear to be exceptions to this system, but only because they all began their lives as battlecruisers (which were named after mountains as well).

alumni72 wrote:

Akagi equates to "red castle" in English, and is the name of a volcano in the same province as Tokyo.

...and I believe Hiryu and Soryu were named after dragons...maybe "Green Dragon" and "Majestic Dragon"?

...Kaga, by the way, means: "White Castle"...or can also be translated as "Krystal"...

"White Castle" is the older, more traditional translation of the word.  Modern culture in Japan now translates Kaga to mean "slider".