wood ships companies ?

Visit BlueJacket Shipcrafter's website - www.bluejacketinc.com 

The company has been around since 1905.

Al Ross 

 

Dr. Ross's support of Bluejacket is understandable, for two reasons:  one - he has a professional connection with the company; and two - its products are excellent.  I've done business with Bluejacket for almost thirty years and have never had reason to complain about the company's products or service.

I can recommend three other manufacturers of wood kits.  Calder Craft, also known as Jotika, is a relatively new British firm that specializes in eighteenth- and nineteenth-century British warships.  Its kits are large, well designed, accurate and, unfortunately, quite expensive.  (The Calder H.M.S. Victory, on 1/72 scale, is about four feet long and costs about a thousand dollars.)  I have to admit I've never actually examined a Calder kit personally; they're hard to find in the U.S., and a bit too much for my budget.  But on the basis of published reviews and what I've read about them in other Web forums, I'm pretty confident in recommending them.

The other two companies are both American.  Model Shipways is a fine firm that's been around since the late 1940s.  Like Bluejacket, it produces kits in a variety of formats:  solid-hull, plank-on-bulkhead, and plank-on-frame.  The kits in the current Model Shipways catalog have been introduced over quite a long period, and therefore vary somewhat in sophistication.  But the firm's track record is excellent.  About twenty-five years ago the two gentlemen who founded the company sold it to Model Expo (www.modelexpoonline.com).  That website is particularly nice in that it lets you download the kit instruction books, which will give you a pretty good idea of what to expect.

The other recommendable company is A.J. Fisher.  That one is also quite old; it goes back to 1925.  It was out of business for a long time, but has recently  been brought back to life by new management.  I haven't examined any of the newly re-released Fisher kits in person, but the company has a fine reputation and obviously is trying had to re-establish itself as a manufacturer of serious scale model kits.  Its website is http://ajfisher.com .

Virtually all the other wood kit manufacturers - at least those that are reasonably widely distributed in the U.S. - fall into the category of HECEPOB (Hideously Expensive Continental European Plank On Bulkhead).  HECEPOB companies include Artesania Latina, Mamoli, Amati, Corel, Euromodel, Occre, Sergal, and probably a couple of others that I can't remember at the moment.  (Most of them are distributed by Model Expo, at the website mentioned above.)  Serious scale ship modelers generally hold these things in contempt.  They are generally characterized by handsome packaging, shoddy materials, irrational construction methods, lousy plans, outrageous prices, and a near-total lack of interest in historical accuracy.  I've ranted about these...objects...at such length in this Forum that the rest of the membership is undoubtedly sick of reading what I have to say about them.  In the unlikely event that anybody's interested, a Forum search on the word "HECEPOB" will yield more reading than you want. 

I always try to remember to offer two caveats about HECEPOB kits:  one - I can't claim to have examined all of them, and I'm sure they do vary somewhat in quality.  Two - at least two of those companies, Amati and Mamoli, have given signs recently that they've discovered what a scale ship model looks like and are making at least a half-hearted effort to crawl out of the ooze of HECEPOBdom.  (Amati is selling a range of British warships, under the name "Victory Models," that were designed by a gentleman who used to work for Calder.) 

Some people get a good deal of pleasure out of HECEPOB kits; others tolerate them because, in various parts of the globe, nothing else is available.  To each his or her own; it's not for me to dictate what products people should buy in the pursuit of their hobbies.  Personally, though, I wouldn't allow a HECEPOB kit in my house.

If you're interested in scale ship modeling - i.e., miniature reproductions of real ships - my strong advice is to stick with Bluejacket, Model Shipways, A.J. Fisher, and (if you can afford it) Calder/Jotika.

Hope that helps a little.  Good luck.

 

Let's not forget Midwest products. They offer a small but very good array of small boat kits designed for beginnersin wood shipmodeling. They have excellent plans and clear instructions. They do not cost much and require only the basic handtools that do not require a lot of money either. For someone just starting out in the hobby, Midwest would be a very good choice. I have no connection with them but I have seen beginners have success with these kits. A small skiff kit would be just the way to begin in wood.

Russ 

 

Hi, here is one example how to improve infamous HECEPOB kits considerably: 

HM Sloop Resolution built from the Corel kit: http://homepage3.nifty.com/modelshipbuilder/resolution.htm

Compared with this model Corel‘s presentation looks quite unattractive: http://www.corel-srl.it/pdf/resolution.pdf http://www.historicships.com/TALLSHIPS/Corel/HMS%20RESOLUTION%20SM38.htm

More improved kits can be seen on this Japanese modelmaker‘s home page: http://homepage3.nifty.com/modelshipbuilder/index.html

Although models are built in an unrealistic „wood & brass fashion“, most of them look quite impressive. Nicely done masting, rigging and sails with improved details helped a lot.

 

Excellent example how to built a nice model from kit - John H.Earl’s armed Virginia sloop: http://modelboatyard.com/avs.html

This is a Modelshipways/Modelexpo kit available here: http://www.modelexpo-online.com/cgi-bin/sgsh0101.exe?SKW=MODEL_SHIPWAYS,PLANK,ON,BULKHEAD@&FNM=08&UID=2007091104180849

I agree with Russ about Midwest kits.  The reason I didn't mention them in my earlier post was that the originator of the thread, uspsjuan, specified that he was interested in sailing ships; I don't think Midwest makes a kit that fits in that category.  But every Midwest boat kit that I've looked at has been well-designed, with reasonably high-quality materials, excellent instructions, and a reasonable price.  The company appears to be making a laudable effort to provide attractive, worthwhile subjects in a form that newcomers to the hobby can actually, successfully build.  (That approach is almost diametrically opposite to those of the HECEPOB companies, whose products, I'm convinced, have been responsible for driving far more people out of the hobby than they've brought into it.)

Swolf - your knowledge of ship-model-related internet sites is really remarkable.  In your first few posts to this Forum you've already made me aware of half a dozen that I didn't know existed.  The HECEPOB-based models to which you were kind enough to link us do indeed demonstrate that a good modeler can produce a handsome, reasonably accurate model out of a HECEPOB kit.  But a good modeler can also produce a handsome, accurate model from a stack of boards, or a beef bone.  It looks to me like the kits from which those models were built didn't quite meet the requirements uspsjuan laid out in his original post:  the modelers pretty clearly threw away most of what came in the boxes. 

But a good modeler can also produce a handsome, accurate model from a stack of boards, or a beef bone.

  Hmmm, I've never tried using a beef bone before!   Thankyou professor, I needed a good laugh, and that did the trick!  Seriously though, there were some shipmodels built from whalebone, so it's not as far fetched an idea as you might initially think.

Actually I wasn't intending to be facetious.  I was thinking of the numerous "POW models," which were built by (usually) Frenchmen in British prisons during the Napoleonic Wars. 

Beef (and, I assume, pork and sheep) bones were about the only materials those unfortunate people had at their disposal.  They built models to occupy their time, and to earn a little money (apparently they were allowed to sell their creations to sympathetic local civilians).  The best of the POW models are really spectacular; bone, though not the easiest material to work with, is capable of taking remarkably detailed carving if worked on by skilled hands.  Those modelers rarely if ever had any plans to work from; they were working almost entirely from memory - and it seems they were often trying to satisfy a market.  (They tended to build big ships of the line - some of them, indeed, bigger and more heavily armed than anything that ever floated - presumably because their customers were more likely to buy such models.)  The rigging was usually of human hair; it's often speculated that sympathetic local ladies donated it. 

Because of the lack of references the modelers had at their disposal, POW models tend to have rather questionable proportions and dimensions.  But their rigging is usually impeccable - and almost every one I've seen has come closer to a reasonable definition of the term "scale model" than the typical HECEPOB product does.

model expo online is another place to get wooden ship models.

I mentioned www.modelexpoonline.com in my first post above.  Both that link and the one waynec provided seem to work equally well.

Model Expo has a dual personality.  On the one hand, it's the parent company of Model Shipways - one of the best in the business.  It also sells the above-mentioned Midwest small craft kits.  On the other, it seems to be the biggest distributor in the U.S. of HECEPOB kits.  I've often wondered how the people in the two parts of the firm get along with each other.  In any case, I've ordered quite a few things from Model Expo over the years and have always been more than satisfied with its mail order service.  And I really like having the ability to read the Model Shipways instruction books online.

I notice the originator of this thread, uspsjuan, hasn't posted again.  I do hope our slight deviation from the original topic hasn't driven him away.

 

jtilley wrote:

Actually I wasn't intending to be facetious.  I was thinking of the numerous "POW models," which were built by (usually) Frenchmen in British prisons during the Napoleonic Wars.  ... Because of the lack of references the modelers had at their disposal, POW models tend to have rather questionable proportions and dimensions.  But their rigging is usually impeccable - and almost every one I've seen has come closer to a reasonable definition of the term "scale model" than the typical HECEPOB product does.

I just happened to visit Denmark, of course running into all museums that show a ship model or two. I had never heard of "bone-models" before, and was pretty surprised to see how wonderful they were done. Here's a few pictures.

The first ones is a model of 'Le Diane' - I have no more infos about it as I forgot to take a picture of the label. The ship is from the Danish Maritime Museum in Kronborg Castle (the Hamlet castle) in Helsingor in Denmark

 

The other picture is from the naval history museum (forgot its actual name) in Copenhagen

 

This gives a new meaning to "scratchbuilt"...

 SD

   That is some beautiful work! I most humbly stand corrected.

Hello you all.

Like it is often the case, the Hepecob (or whatever the name) story is to be taken with caution.  Companies like Artesania Latina and even more, Occre are improving their products at a fast rate, and believe me, if they were just what you say, they would have been out of business for a long time.  These 2 Spanish companies offer excellent value for money, with interesting subjects ,good instruction booklets, and everything inside to let the builder obtain a fair result straight from the box.  They are quite the opposite to Model Shipways, which indeed allows you to make excellent models.  And indeed, when you browse through the net, you will hardly see any bad model from this company.  The reasons are the following: they have excellent plans, good but old fashioned instruction manuals, plenty of materials of an average quality (planks well cut, wood rather easy to work with, but not of the best quality, metal parts of average quality,shiny synthetic yarns, and lots of parts that have to be scratchbuilt (often up to you to find out how).  So, if you see only good models of these kits, it's most certainly because most builders give it up, and only the best succeed.  But then again the excellent plans indeed allow a degree of detail that is quite excellent.

You can, if you would like to, browse through the forums of Dry Dock Models and of Ship Model World, where you will see extensive galleries that will give you an idea of the models that match the level of quality you want to reach., and get a more contrasted insight on this subject. And then you will also find lots of opinions about what kits are good enough and within reach of the less experienced model builder.  As an example, on Dry Dock Models, they did a 'community build' of the cutter Sherbourne by Caldercraft/Jotika, which was aimed at this  group

What I've read about "Victory Models" is that it would not be a line from Amati at all, but that it would be a new company, emerged from a "marriage" between Caldercraft and Amati (or is it Mamoli, I always get confused with those names).

Anyway, here is a link to a built of the "Victory Models'" HMS Fly... 

Thank you all for all the wondertful information. It has become apperant that an investment in one or more books on the subject of construction is nessary. there seems to be to many terms i'm unfamiliar with. foremost on my mind is the rigging. do the instructions take you through an order of rigging , or is that left to the bilder to decide. I am in awe of these sailing ships with all their elaborate rigging......way cool !!. once again , thanks to you all. I look foward to talking to all of you more later.

There's some information about the Amati/Calder connection on the Modelshipworld website.  I haven't followed the story in any detail, but my understanding is that an employee of Calder/Jotika (I don't quite understand the relationship between those two terms) left that company and worked out a deal of some sort with Amati to establish a line called Victory Models. 

The latter has since brought out two or three British warship kits - at least one of them duplicating, subject-wise, a Calder/Jotika kit.  Apparently there was a nasty lawsuit between the two companies (or maybe it was between Calder/Jotika and its former employee), which resulted in the latest Victory Models kit, H.M.S. Agamemnon, being delayed considerably.  As I understand it, the lawsuit was resolved more-or-less peacefully, and Victory Models is still in business. Whether Calder/Jotika has any business connection with it I don't know - but my impression on the basis of what I read on that website is that some pretty strong and heated emotions are involved in the story.  I certainly don't know enough about it to pick one side or the other; I just hope the situation has indeed been resolved.  There aren't enough knowledgeable, skilled people working in the wood ship kit industry.  We don't need any of those people to be trying to kill each other.

Model Expo carries the Victory Models H.M.S. Fly kit; the instruction manual can be downloaded from the Model Expo website.  It looks to me like an outstanding kit; the finished model in the photos on the website certainly counts as a genuine scale model.  I must say, though, that I question Model Expo's assertion that the kit can be built in 60-80 hours.  Maybe somebody could do it that fast, but I think it would take me at least a couple of hundred.

I believe the next kit from Victory Models is going to be H.M.S. Prince, a seventeenth-century first-rate ship of the line.  If that kit is of the same quality as the Fly, modelers (or those who can afford to buy it) will be in for a treat.

Nearly all of the modeler's websites mentioned above have introductory pages for newcomers. They have lists of recommended models on the basis of skill level, and sections discussing methods of planking and other aspects of wooden ship model building.

I found the practitums available on the Model Expo site for Sultana and Phantom especially helpful, since they are written in a user-friendly, conversational style, are well illustrated, and show every step. They also show how to improve parts of a model if desired. You can download them as well for ready reference. It doesnt matter whether one is building those particular vessels, since the solutions and approches can be applied to nearly any kit. Caldercraft has similar sections on their website showing how their own kits are assembled and in some cases designed.

Midwest and Model Shipways offer beginner and entry level kits, and even the simplest can be made into a stunnning model. For example, here is Phantom, as made from Model Shipways plans.

http://homepage3.nifty.com/shiphome/phantom/phantom-page2.htm

Generally a good plank on bulkhead model should have enough bulkheads to frame the model correctly, parts which fit, and instructions that are well written and available in one's own language. The wood should be decent, although the best woods are often only necessary for people who like the "varnish and brass" effect of woodwork.

That was the nice, measured part. Now here is the ginger.

Avoid Constructo kits at all costs, and for the most part avoid Billing kits too. I have two of the latter - the "Roar Edge" Viking ship is actually a good kit, but their "Half Moon" is terrible, and the instructions for both are rotten. Avoid Spanish Galleons - none are even remotely accurate, and the new one by OcCrea is so beyond bogus its funny, as its based on Captain Hook's pirate ship from a Disney movie. Avoid kits with big chunky metal castings for windows, or shiny nylon flags and so on. You will get something that will not be worth the time building. And has been said many times on this forum, avoid the Victorys, Cutty Sarks, and other gigantic projects with a bazillion details to do, since its far better to complete a simple kit first, have the satisfaction and learning experience of the build, and progress from there.

Woodburner:

Just to be clear, the Phantom model to which you refer on the Japanese website is not a kit. He used the Model Shipways plans, but he scratch built the model rather than working from a kit. 

Russ 

 

 

 

Russ, you're absolutely right. I looked again and he indeed build it from the plans only. Here is a handsome build of Phantom from a Model Shipways kit, complete with an aftermarket cat:

http://gallery.drydockmodels.com/phantom

This one was built from a resin hull version offered a while back, but I'd suspect all of the details are built up the same as the wood hull kit.

Indeed, Shirai's work is some of the best I have seen.

For a lot of Phantom models built from their kit, check out Model Expo's website. A veritable gaggle of Phantoms. 

http://www.modelexpo-online.com/Profiles/_Gallery_phantom.html

Russ 

 

The resin-hulled Phantom on the Drydock Models site is mine.  (I quit participating in that web forum quite some time ago, when the management announced that any posts discussing models built from styrene kits would be deleted.  I don't question the management's right to run its site the way it wants, but that's just not my kind of forum.)  The cat is painted in the then-correct markings of my landlord, Willie II.  (I probably ought to update it.  The old codger recently lost his right eye to feline herpes.  We call him "Cap'n Willie.")

I enjoyed working with that resin hull; it suffered from some mistakes, but I think Model Shipways was on the right track with the idea.  I don't know how the other parts of the latest, machine-carved-wood-hull version of the Phantom differ, if at all, from those in the one I bought.  Mine contained some weirdly irrelevant parts (like a package of "deadeye strop rings" that were about five times bigger than the deadeyes).  But the various examples illustrated on the web establish that it's a basically sound kit - and, incidentally, an excellent one for newcomers to the hobby.  Just remember to gouge out the cockpit in front of the steering wheel at an early stage of construction.  The "cockpit sole" is supposed to be a foot or so lower than the surrounding deck.  (That's my one and only quibble with that otherwise superb Japanese model, to which Woodburner was kind enough to link us.  What a wonderful model - so full of realism and character!)

Later edit:  I have a theory as to how the confusion over the height of the Phantom's cockpit sole got started.  The kit was originally issued, back in (I think) the early sixties, with a machine-carved wood hull.  I bought one of those kits quite a few years ago.  (It may still be up in the attic somewhere.)  My memory is shaky on this point, but I think the hull as it came out of the box had the cockpit routed out.  If I'm right, that would explain, at least to some extent, why this detail isn't shown on Mr. Campbell's plans:  since the modeler didn't have to rout out the cockpit, he may have taken it for granted that the lower level was self-explanatory.  At any rate, the Campbell plans don't clarify the construction of the cockpit; they just show an inboard view of the bulwarks.  The deck line on that view represents the deck just inside the bulwarks, and therefore doesn't show the "sunken" cockpit.  All this represents some speculation on my part.  But I continue to be convinced that the cockpit sole ought to be lower than the surrounding deck.  To build that little railing around a flush section of the quarterdeck, and change the deck planking pattern inside that railing, just doesn't make any sense.

I'm not convinced there's any direct connection between that Occre "Spanish Galleon" and the Disneyland "Captain Hook" ship; the overall "prototype" sizes, proportions, numbers of guns, etc. are different.  But I have to agree that, as reproductions of real ships, both are just about equally awful.  (We should, to be fair, acknowledge that the Disney "ship" was never intended to be any such thing.  It was based on the imagination of the people responsible for the animated cartoon "Peter Pan.")  Both the Disney animators and the Occre designers appear to have been catering to an odd, traditional public perception of what a "Spanish galleon" looked like - a perception that seems to date back to the illustrations that people like Howard Pyle and N.C. Wyeth made for popular novels back in the 1930s - and maybe to Errol Flynn movies of the same era.  It doesn't have much to do with reality.

I'm aware of only one "Spanish Galleon" kit that may deserve to be taken seriously:  the long-extinct plastic one from Imai.  I've never actually had that one in my hands, but on the basis of photos it at least looks believable.

What a wonderful model - so full of realism and character

 Prof. Tilley, with the photos of this model, and the photos of yours, one needs no other guide to building a great looking Phantom.  I do like the "underway" presentation. That was excellently done!

I agree completely with woodburner’s opinion to avoid Constructo and for the most part Billing kits, too.

From Victory Models’ kits mentioned here I had an occasion to examine their HM Cutter Lady Nelson, moreover I could compare this kit with Jotika/Caldercraft's Sherbourne.

HM Cutter Sherbourne http://www.jotika-ltd.com/Pages/1024768/Nelson_6.htm

Sherbourne review: http://www.drydockmodels.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1771

(I can only agree with this comment)

Models in gallery: http://gallery.drydockmodels.com/sherbourne

HM Cutter Lady Nelson

http://www.model-dockyard.com/victory/lady-nelson.asp

http://www.historicships.com/TALLSHIPS/Victory/LadyNelson/LadyNelson.htm

Instructions, wood and some fittings are standard and practically same for both kits but Jotika’s Sherbourne has better anchors, windlass and particularly guns. On the other side Lady Nelson is supplied with wooden baseboard and brass pedestals although these are of equal height which makes the model declining forward (due to smaller draft at the bow). Fore pedestal shall be heightened or both replaced with scratchbuilt or aftermarket ones to bring the waterline horizontal.

Both models can be easily improved in some details and rigging made either according to the book Naval Cutter Alert by Peter Goodwin or according to the on-line manual The Elements and Practice of Rigging And Seamanship, 1794, by David Steel http://www.hnsa.org/doc/steel/index.htm

This 18th century manual has many valuable informations for making scale model on rigging, sails, anchors etc. Here some examples for cutter:

Rigging dimensions: http://www.hnsa.org/doc/steel/tables/pages/141-CutterOf200Tons.htm

Main sail: http://www.hnsa.org/doc/steel/large/img/sail19b.jpg

Anchors (incl. table with dimensions): http://www.hnsa.org/doc/steel/part3.htm

 

When searching the web I have found also two excellent web sites with a beautiful models of the cutter Alert:

http://homepage3.nifty.com/modelshipbuilder/alert.htm

http://homepage3.nifty.com/shiphome/alert/alert-page1.html

and one about guys who built the Alert in 1:1 scale !!! (although not a cutter)

http://www.cuttersandluggers.co.uk/photographs.asp

Russ, thanks for the links to the other Phantom models - a nice fleet of pilot boats. The Model Shipways offer of a refunded kit to anyone building it within six months is a neat incentive, too.

Shirai's models are incredible, and along with the Professor's Phantom, offer a lot of inspiration. I really like the way Shirai weathered the copper hull. Another source are surviving boardroom models, not only for the craftsmanship but also as contemporary records of historical details. Some have been rebuilt or restored over the years, and the actual ships may have differed from their design models, but overall the integrity is very high. Here are some of my favorite links:


http://www.nmm.ac.uk/collections/greenblackwall/requestHandlers/doSearch.cfm/Category/greenblackwall/itemcategory/shipmodels

http://www.nmm.ac.uk/collections/explore/index.cfm/category/shipmodels

http://www.usna.edu/Museum/rogers.htm

http://www.modelshipwrights.net/Rogers_Collection.htm

Professor, I'm glad to link up your Phantom. It was one of the first quality builds of that model I saw and impressed me very much. I'm at work on my own resin hull Artitec kit of the Utrecht Staatenjacht and continue to be impressed by its quality. It's on the third paint job, since the first two displayed problems that I learned from. (it now has a combination of gloss for the yellow ochre carvings, and flat for the hull tones, so the oil/turp wash will affect the surfaces in a controlled effect.)

The OcCrea model does show that there is a perceived market for fantasy galleons, and underscores the "Chappelle effect:" generally, models kits of ships from roughly the time of Nelson onward tend to be more accurate (and have markets interested in accuracy) than model kits representing earlier vessels.

I thought about modifying a San Martin or similar kit into something more accurate, but concluded that it would be a waste of money. This has hit home with my Billing "Half Moon." Apart from the terrible quality, lack of decent instructions and a grand total of eight bulkheads (it needs twice that) it needs a lot of reworking to even remotely resemble a Dutch jacht of the time. I have to eat my hat here, because the 1909 Dutch replica its based on, and which I praised to high heaven in another post, turns out to be seriously flawed. It was a great replica and does have many features from the era, but also a hull based on designs a half century later, and similar anachronisms in the rigging. So I'm reshaping the bulkheads, and glad only that the kit is so cheap that I'm largely recutting wood and tossing some plastic parts. It would have been a lot better to have worked from scratch.

Jim

Another source of informations is in the Science Museum

http://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/results.asp?X9=Ships,%20Warships,%2018th%20century

They have also POW's bone models on display

Wooden ship modeling for dummies http://www.shipmodeling.ca/

Interesting web site offering:

visual glossary

http://www.shipmodeling.ca/aagv001.html

http://www.shipmodeling.ca/aaglo-00.html

 

videos http://www.shipmodeling.ca/aa10077.html#9

such as Rigging ratlines http://www.shipmodeling.ca/aa000094.html