SEARCH FINESCALE.COM

Enter keywords or a search phrase below:

Great Western

11815 views
13 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    January 2006
Posted by EPinniger on Sunday, January 13, 2008 5:31 AM

Revell "Leather Brown" is the base colour - the drybrushing/highlight colour depends on the model.

I have several different shades of brown, from a rust/terracotta shade to a dark earth brown slightly lighter than the Revell paint - the ones I most commonly use are "Chocolate Brown"  and "Coffee". The brand of craft acrylic paint I use is "Anita's All-Purpose Acrylic" - this is labelled as Made in the USA, so it may be available in US hobby/craft stores.

  • Member since
    December 2002
Posted by rayers on Saturday, January 12, 2008 6:23 PM

EP,

Is leather brown the highlight color, or the base color? What is the other color you use? I have never been able to get my unpainted masts/spars to look like raw wood.

  • Member since
    January 2006
Posted by EPinniger on Thursday, January 3, 2008 3:36 PM
I can't speak for Grahor (the wood colour on his masts looks better than mine!) but this is the technique I use - I drybrush acrylic craft/artist's paint over the base colour, which is usually Revell matt acrylic "Leather Brown" (dark, slightly reddish brown), using a flat-ended brush in the direction of the wood grain. I use a similar technique to get a weathered teak effect on decks, heavily drybrushing "Stone Grey" (more or less a "bleached teak" pale yellow-grey colour) over "Earth Brown" (medium greyish-brown)
  • Member since
    December 2002
Posted by rayers on Thursday, January 3, 2008 2:11 PM
Grahor, could you give a little more detail on the process you use to make the masts look wood-like? I have struggled with finding paint colors that replicate the look of unpainted wood. It appears you use artist's paints (oil or acrylic?) over a base color... what colors do you use use for the base and the highlights? Your masts look really good.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by AndrewGorman on Tuesday, December 4, 2007 10:20 PM

My favorite finish for copper is to give it  a bath in hydrogen peroxide- H2O2.  This gives it an attractive slightly reddish finish that is stable, and attractive at least to me!  In the US, a weak hydrogen peroxide is available at a drugstore/chemist as a disinfectant which is all I've used on copper.  Just saturate a rag with it and lay it over the copper.  Just a suggestion, but I think it would be a good compromise on a model between bright, bright copper and a duller painted finish.  Experiment first!  Dunk a pece of your tape in the peroxide overnight and see if you like the look.

Just a suggestion,

Andrew

 

 

  • Member since
    December 2006
  • From: Latvia, EU
Posted by Grahor on Sunday, December 2, 2007 6:01 PM

Okay, the build continues. :) Coppering is over (Here is an unfinished example of how I did it, and material I've used. ), I've painted the hull black and white, and added decorative belts. I've mostly used "brushed gold pinstripe tape" 1/32" for it, and 1/64" metallic gold for stern, plus dry-brushed windows; the result is, in my opinion, better than if I'd tried to paint those belts. Here are pics:

You can see how I was able to put it in the corners between the hull and the padding wheels here: http://www.lavkamirov.com/modeling/Great%20Western/belts2.jpg

It was surprisingly hard to make it stick in the corners. 

Stern:

 

 Look directly from the stern shows imperfections; http://www.lavkamirov.com/modeling/Great%20Western/stern1.jpg ; however, considering the complicated form of the stern, imperfections of plastic mold itself (that difference in the ways two belts lay is mostly plastic) and complete refusal of the tape to stick to that complicated surface (the only thing which helds it now is countless layers of matte finish. :) ), I think I can congratulate myself on results. :)

What do you people think of that technique, how does it look for you, and have you used it before? Were there problems with it? Haven't seen anyone recommending it anywhere; I wonder, why not. The lines are much sharper, than painted lines ever would.

Additionally, here is the next stage - masts. :) Artistic oils over acrylics and a layer of future. Wood-like, I think. :) http://www.lavkamirov.com/modeling/Great%20Western/masts1.jpg

 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Sunday, November 18, 2007 11:14 PM

There's an ongoing debate among ship modelers about the actual appearance of "copper"-sheathed hulls.  The bottom line:  there's plenty of room for argument and personal taste.

A couple of points perhaps are relevant in this particular case.  First - I don't know exactly what that material used by the stained glass window trade is, but I suspect it's similar, if not identical, to the self-adhesive tape Model Expo sells for "coppering" models.  I used it for my little model of the Phantom, and really liked it (once I'd cut it down to the scale width).  I think it has some sort of coating or other preservative on it.  I didn't put any finish on mine, largely because I was curious to see what would happen to it.  Three years or so later (not counting the indeterminate time the roll of tape had sat in the box after leaving the manufacturer), it seems to have darkened a little, but that's all.  (It hasn't shown any tendency to turn green, or loose its initial shine.)  I'm pretty happy with it.  I have no idea, however, whether this is exactly the same stuff Grahor has.

Second, a reduction of the reddish cast probably, in terms of historical accuracy, would be appropriate.  By this time shipbuilders were no longer using actual copper for hull sheathing, especially on big ships.  Copper had been replaced by "yellow metal," containing a percentage of zinc.  The truth of the matter is that brass probably would be a more authentic-looking sheathing material for a model of a ship built after the 1840s or thereabouts.  But copper looks so nice that it's difficult to give it up.  As a matter of fact I can't recall seeing a good model with brass sheathing.

Good luck.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    December 2006
  • From: Latvia, EU
Posted by Grahor on Sunday, November 18, 2007 3:52 PM

I have finished coppering the hull, and despite the lack of an example of such coppering on a similar ships, and the complicated (for me, at least :)) hull configuration, the results are, in my opinion, satisfactory.

Now, the question: should I coat the copper foil with a finish (Future), or leave it as it is? Future makes copper a bit brighter, but also makes it to somewhat lose deep red color. Not a lot, but it makes it a bit more yellow. What is your experience/opinion? :)

  • Member since
    December 2006
  • From: Latvia, EU
Posted by Grahor on Saturday, November 10, 2007 5:50 AM

Greetings, all.

Great Western's building slowly, but merrily moves along, and now it's a time to copper the hull. I'm going to do it using copper foil for stained glass artisans, not cutting it into separate plates (which would be Hercule's task), but layering it in long belts of foil with plates and nails embossed. Since it would be pure insanity to make plates to scale (assuming, of course, that the size of plates was similar to those used on earlier ships, which is a questionable assumption indeed; and nails wouldn't be visible at that scale at all, and so on) would be counterproductive, considering the scale of 1/180, so I'm going to increase the dimensions by 60%, which will also make it better-looking. :)

What I need to know, however, is the scheme of coppering Great Western's hull (which is not likely to exist anywhere on the net), or at least a scheme of coppering of any large ship of those times. I would prefer to see a drawing of such scheme, for clarity - verbal descriptions are not all that clear. May be someone can help me with a link or a picture? 

  • Member since
    December 2006
  • From: Latvia, EU
Posted by Grahor on Tuesday, October 16, 2007 10:01 AM

Thanks everybody; those are wonderful pictures, which will help me greatly. Excellent pictures; they answer all my questions about rigging and deckhouses, and greatly help with color scheme.

As for shrouds, I wasn't going to use supplied with kit anyway; it is indeed not very hard to do them by hand, although a little bit tedious; but with just 4 small masts it's not even all that tedious. I was just wandering, since I haven't seen shrouds like that. :) I don't think they were meant to be tied; apparently, they are supposed to be simply glued in place. A clumsy solution, though. 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Sunday, October 14, 2007 9:21 AM

The internet is a wonderful thing.  Grahor, it looks like EPinniger has supplied just what you needed - for free.  Careful study of these pictures should provide reasonably clear answers to most, if not all, of the questions that the Airfix kit raises.

It looks to me like the two old models, in the Merseyside Museum and the Science Museum, have slightly different color schemes - and they probably differ in other ways as well. That doesn't mean either model is "wrong."  The actual ship almost certainly got modified more than once during her career.

Good luck.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    January 2006
Posted by EPinniger on Saturday, October 13, 2007 10:32 AM

I haven't posted on this forum for many months, however I thought I ought to help out with your request, as I have 6 photos of the London Science Museum's model of the Great Western, photographed earlier this year.

Here they are. To save bandwidth, 5 of the photos are links rather than images, click on the link to see the photo


http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~pinniger/photos/museums/sm_ship/PS%20Great%20Western%202.jpg

http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~pinniger/photos/museums/sm_ship/PS%20Great%20Western%203.jpg
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~pinniger/photos/museums/sm_ship/PS%20Great%20Western%204.jpg
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~pinniger/photos/museums/sm_ship/PS%20Great%20Western%205.jpg

http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~pinniger/photos/museums/sm_ship/PS%20Great%20Western%206.jpg

I can't remember whether this model is 1/96 or 1/48 scale. Anyway, these photos should help you with painting and rigging your model! (BTW, the Airfix Great Western is 1/180 scale, if your kit doesn't list the scale on the box. The larger one, that is - they also made a much smaller kit, about 1/500-600 scale, as part of their "historic ships" line) 

(finally fixed the image links after about a dozen edits)
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Saturday, October 13, 2007 9:57 AM

I've never done any research on this particular ship, but maybe I can help a little.

The pictures Grahor found on the web are a bit of a mixed bag.  The painting by Mark Meyers is excellent and helpful.  He's a modern artist who knows how to do research; I think you can rely on him thoroughly.  The second painting has the virtue of being (apparently) contemporary with the ship, but doesn't have a great deal to offer in the way of information.

The first of the two model photos shows an excellent model in the Merseyside Museum.  Apart from the obvious difficulty that the photo doesn't show the complete model, it should be extremely useful.  (It makes much of the color scheme pretty clear, for instance.)  I have to agree that the second model photo isn't of much value for this particular project.

It's safe to assume, given the date of the ship, that the deckhouses were paneled with wood.  The Merseyside model gives at least some indication of what they ought to look like.  There may have been skylights in one or more of the deckhouse roofs (the kit parts should make that clear), but if the parts don't have any indications of glass panes in them it's safe to assume they represent wood planking - probably, unless you have some reason to think otherwise, in the same color as the deck planking.

Rigging diagrams in plastic sailing ship kits almost invariably are simplified considerably - especially in the smaller kits, like this one.  When I'm done typing this I'll do a little digging and see if there are any convenient sources for plans of this ship.  The paintings and the Merseyside Museum model suggest that her rigging was pretty typical for a sailing ship (or sail/steam ship) of the period.  If you can't find a decent rigging diagram, careful study of that model photo should help a good deal.  (You might try e-mailing the Merseyside Museum.  It's quite possible that they have some more photos available, and could send you prints for a reasonable price.)

Those plastic-coated thread "shrouds and ratlines" used to be standard in Airfix and Revell kits.  Modelers have differing reactions to them.  I have to agree that they look somewhat better than the injection-molded attrocities Revell usually provides nowadays (in the few sailing ships it still sells), but the plastic-coated thread has its drawbacks.  It's slippery (meaning it's almost impossible to tie in a good knot), and extremely difficult to set up tightly.  (The shrouds in a sailing ship are set up just as tight as possible; they have to be in order to do their job.  Drooping shrouds just aren't found in operating sailing ships.)  And finally, the manufacturers don't acknowledge that the shrouds are supposed to be much heavier than the ratlines.  I personally don't care much for these things, but some modelers seem to like them. 

My personal opinion, which I've voiced more than once here in the Forum, is that most modelers over-estimate the difficulty of rigging shrouds and ratlines to scale.  If you do a Forum search on the word "ratlines," you'll find quite a few discussions of the subject.  For this particular model I think I'd recommend trying the "needle through the shroud" method.  Personally, I'd rather just rig the shrouds on a model like this, and omit the ratlines altogether, then wrestle with the plastic-coated thread things.  But I guess that's a matter of personal taste.

Hope that helps a little.  Good luck.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    December 2006
  • From: Latvia, EU
Great Western
Posted by Grahor on Saturday, October 13, 2007 8:13 AM

I've decided to build a Great Western, Airfix kit. While being a moderaterly decent kit, it has a share of its problems (all fixable, although some will need a serious amount of putty and plenty of sanding), I have problems with finding, how the ship should actually look.

The only two picture of the ship I've found was here: http://www.maritimequest.com/side_wheel/great_western/great_western.htm and they are not very informative. :) I've found some pictures of models, also, like this one, or this one but I have to say, that they were unsatisfactory. :)

Questions

  1. What was the color scheme of the ship? Especially colors of the insides, so to say? Those of you who've made any model of Great Western, have you any pics?
  2. Those little cabins on the deck, were they wooden? Metal? Were their roofs solid or glassed? How do they look like? Again, pics are welcome.
  3. Running rigging. While standing rigging looks pretty normal in instructions from Airfix, running rigging looks very simplified and worst of all fishy. I don't see and easy way to operate it, which, in my experience, is something that running rigging is for. Have someone any schemes of Great Western rigging? May be pics? :)

 By the way, shrouds are rather unique; they are pre-made of some plastic threads, which, while not as good as made by hand, are by far superior to abominable plastic... well... abominations of shrouds, shipped with other kits. I wonder, why other kits haven't adopted such pre-made shrouds.

JOIN OUR COMMUNITY!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

SEARCH FORUMS
FREE NEWSLETTER
By signing up you may also receive reader surveys and occasional special offers. We do not sell, rent or trade our email lists. View our Privacy Policy.