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Italeri PT-Boat build starting up!

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  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Naperville, IL
Posted by jlbishop on Tuesday, April 12, 2011 1:35 PM

More updates coming soon....I just realized I (still) have dyslexia....I was originally going to do the 523 boat but switched to 579....gotta take off and replace two numbers on the stand .... doh!

No worries though - it is easily accomplished!

I've started to do some more painting....I am masking off the deck lights as I like the brass color and I've seen some pictures where these were left unpainted.

As to what still needs to be done:  I have to paint the main deck so I can mask/paint the superstructure camoflage.  Then I'll install the windows and attach the deck. 

I need to also finish the 2 dual .50 mounts, work on the searchlight installation - I am going to scratch this plus use photoetch.  I also have a fresnel lense for it that I will install.

I need to scratch/replace the stern light - the kit represents it as a solid hunk of grey styrene.

More news as it's fit to print!

John

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Naperville, IL
Posted by jlbishop on Wednesday, March 23, 2011 12:55 PM

Another long time between posts, I know....but I am still making progress!

Here are the painted torpedoes:

I painted the forward life raft as well.  I removed the molded on ropes along the edge and replace them with thread.  The holes through the support bands were drilled with a pin vice....not trying to go all the way through, but rather by drilling down and in to form a "V" from both ends. 

Here is completed work so far on the main deck:

Here is one of the gun cage's for the twin 50's:  I replace the molded on canvas stitching with wire - if you try this make sure you have a LOT of wire to work with.  I thought I had enough, but by the time I got to the end, I was seriously wondering if I was going to come up short:

Here is work in progress for the dingy - I replaced the molded on straps with Lion Roar photoetch and put on a layer of Mr Surfacer to give it some "cloth" texture.

Completed some more work on the display stand.  I ordered RON-29 and Phillipines base patches from the torpedo boat museum, and mounted them on the display base with a genericc mosquito boat patch using Scotch spray glue....you can see the can in the background.  I used peel off letters for the PT-523....and in case you are wondering the boat's nickname was "Gizmo"!

 

I've also been working on the hull and radar mast.....more pictures soon!

Take care,

John

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Naperville, IL
Posted by jlbishop on Sunday, November 1, 2009 2:13 PM

I've had lots of interruptions recently but have made some progress!

Here are some pics of the forward 37mm Oldsmobile T-1 cannon with Lion Roar photoetch details applied.

I've painted some of the shells and inside of the ammunition feeds and will be painting the rest later!

 

I am now working on the torpedoes/launchers and have the torpedoes done:

 The launchers are going to look quite nice I think - the holding brackest for the torpedoes are quite complex and will add a lot of detail to the project - I'll post some more pictures when I get further along!

 

John

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Naperville, IL
Posted by jlbishop on Sunday, March 9, 2008 2:55 PM

I hear you Dave!

I'd really like to have my Lion Roar set in hand though as I will have a few days off during Spring Break and I'd really like to get started!

 

John

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: USA
Posted by weebles on Sunday, March 9, 2008 9:45 AM

I got my Lion Roar set from Dragon and it was reasonably priced thanks to some "Dragon Dollars".  The set is magnificent.  Lion Roar has said that they will also be releasing some .20mm Oerlikon cannons to compliment what is included in their PT set.  That will give us a lot of opportunities to model various boats. 

I thought Lion Roar was pretty complete until I saw an upcoming release from Royal Models that has an excellent PE trigger system for the .50's.  Sure enough this is totally missing from the kit and the Lion Roar set.  Royal is producing a lot of diorama parts for this boat and the list is pretty extensive.  Not to be outdone U-Models is also bringing out a set that will include depth charges and racks, etc.  Royal and U-Models sets will be out in the next few months.

My "must have" list for this boat is getting pretty big. 

Dave 

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Naperville, IL
Posted by jlbishop on Tuesday, March 4, 2008 10:58 AM

Jerry,

Ordering is one thing, having the set in your hands quite another!  I ordered mine on back order from great models...hopefully we'll get it soon!

I did see in the news from the Nuremburg Toy Fair that Italeri is producing a figure set for their PT-Boats - so we should have a way to populate the vessel when we're finally ready!

John

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: N.E. Ohio
Posted by dragonfly on Tuesday, March 4, 2008 8:59 AM

Hello john,

I haven't started my boat yet either, but I did find the Lion Roar set at LuckyModel.com for $122. and free shipping. The part # is LR AS35003

Jerry

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Naperville, IL
Posted by jlbishop on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 9:22 PM

Does anyone have the Lion Roar set?  I've had mine on order for quite some time and nothing seems to be showing up here in the states....

 In the mean time, I've been trying to figure out how to build the forward compartment under foremost hatch on the bow so I can leave it open!

 

John

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Naperville, IL
Posted by jlbishop on Friday, December 28, 2007 1:17 PM

Ditto the previous comments - I pre-ordered mine from http://www.greatmodels.com/.

You can find it by going to the search page and searching for "lion roar pt".

Hope this helps!

John

LNRLAS35003 U.S. Navy Pacific Fleet PT-596 (PT Boat), Super Update Conversion  #LNRLAS35003 Lion Roar
LNRLAS35003

1/35 LNRLAS35003 U.S. Navy Pacific Fleet PT-596 (PT Boat), Super Update Conversion
Category: Figures Accessories 1/35

Conversion Set for Italeri kit # 5602

Status: Taking Pre-Orders
Retail Price: $179.95
Your Price: $161.95
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: USA
Posted by weebles on Friday, December 28, 2007 11:19 AM

It's being distributed by Dragon USA.  But anyone who caries Lion Roar photo etch will probably carry it.  Just do a web search.  It's not going to be available until January of 2008.  I'm sure you will find people who will discount it.  Dragon isn't listing a price on their web site yet. 

Dave

  • Member since
    April 2005
  • From: Roanoke, Virginia
Posted by BigJim on Friday, December 28, 2007 8:44 AM
Where do you find this Lion Roar  PE set?
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Naperville, IL
Posted by jlbishop on Thursday, December 27, 2007 1:27 PM

Great Models is taking pre-orders for the set - they are selling them for $161.95 + shipping.

I ordered mine - the set looks too nice to pass up!  Now I may have to switch boats (again) as those rocket launchers look really nice!

Decisions, decisions....

BTW I have just started reading "At Close Quarters"....veery interesting read! 

John

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: USA
Posted by weebles on Thursday, December 27, 2007 9:04 AM

This looks like the better set.  There are probably parts worth using from both sets.  But I'm definately going to have to get this one.  If they had only made the Thunderbolt gun as well.  Lion Roar, are you listening?  Wink [;)]

Dave

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Naperville, IL
Posted by jlbishop on Thursday, December 27, 2007 7:34 AM

Chuck,

 Not to worry!  That set looks very nice - I'm going to definately look into it.  I love a good photoetch set and I have to say I'm somewhat disappointed with the Eduard set - this one looks much more comprehensive!

Given the amount of time I tend to spend on these kits, it's not too big of an investment for me to "switch gears" - especially since I haven't actually started building yet!

 I'm going to check Squadron/etc. to see when they'll be available over here!

Now if my plans from Al Ross would just arrive!

It's pretty neat - I think that makes 3 of us starting at about the same time.....maybe we could have enough for a group build!

John

  • Member since
    September 2006
Posted by Fairseas on Wednesday, December 26, 2007 8:51 PM
I understand it's too late for your project since you already have the Eduard photo etch, but Lion Roar just released their set for this kit which looks very good. I live in Shanghai & plan to pick one up this week for my own build that I've been holding for this release.

Chuck










  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Naperville, IL
Posted by jlbishop on Friday, December 14, 2007 7:39 AM

Guys,

Don't forget to check out Bill Malones pictures of PT-617 at http://www.williammaloney.com/Aviation/PTBoat/index.htm

I'm wondering if there is anyone living near Boston that would be willing to take a few more pictures of the Elco 80'?

John

  • Member since
    February 2007
  • From: Sterling, VA
Posted by oldmodeler on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 5:36 PM

http://www.accurate-armour.com/ShowProduct.cfm?manufacturer=0&category=13&subcategory=226&product=1597

At 25 Pounds I quess it is close to $50. Most didn't use the shield and most didn't have that circular ring at the base but some had something close. You can cast your own using the kit 20mm as a master. I wouldn't sell or give any away because I'm sure Italeri has a copyright. You could make the base from scratch though a lot of that detail is pretty sweet. If I was making a boat with the 20mm on the stern, I would buy the kit. if i was making a boat with the 40 mm on the stern and additional 20mms on the bow, I would (and did) cast my own as they do not need all the detail like straps and guides, etc.

 

gatorsmask will get you there. A poster I made of my 495 build is in his gallery. Take a peek.

Ed

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Naperville, IL
Posted by jlbishop on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 4:47 PM

Hi,

I tried to find the Accurate Armor 20mm guns at squadron and on the web with no luck - but I might not know exactly what I'm looking for....can someone point me in the right direction?

I also did a web search for gatorsmasks and came up with www.gatorsmasks.com, but that web site doesn't seem reachable at the moment....do I have it right?

John

  • Member since
    February 2007
  • From: Sterling, VA
Posted by oldmodeler on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 1:57 PM

Hi John,

I'm not sure if Al's plans give enough detail to build an interior replica. I suspect you could get it close enough by using his plans and photos in various books.

Archer makes some good decals but I used custom paint masks for everything. I got them from Gatorsmasks. Just tell him what you want. You can make about any boat markings you want. Some of the RON33 boats had red and lt.grey or white numbers then later went to lt. grey or white. He can make paint masks to allow for colors. The stars on my 495 build are all painted using his masks.

I used the kit mast as a starting point and built-up and shaped the main verticals with sheet plastic. The crossbar was replaced with a brass rod. I added the lower cross-beams from "I-strut" and modified the box to backdate it. Note it is mounted with a 90 degree rotation relative to the SO-3 set-up.

 

For the dome I got a 3/4"  wood dowel, 3/4" wood ball and 3/4" dia by 1/8" thk wood disk at a craft store. I cut the ball in half, cut the dowel to length and beveled the edge of the disk to match the taper at the bottom of the SO dome. Then glued the ball to the end of the dowel being careful to center it. once dry I wrapped the dowel with sheet styrene and glued it in place. The ball was actually the right size but the dowel was undersized so the sheet made up the difference. Then I trimmed the end and glued the disk to the bottom. After it was all cured I filled the seams and sanded to a nice smooth shape. I primed the wood and sanded so no woodgrain would show then painted white to look for defects and finally painted green. I had drilled a hole on the center of the bottom for a rod to make attachment to the mast stronger. I should have used the dome to make a mold so i could make more but prior to casting my own 20mm cannons and mount for this project I had not done that so it didn't occure to me until later as i copied the guns and mounts.

 

Ed

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Naperville, IL
Posted by jlbishop on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 1:02 PM

No problems on "hijacking the thread guys"...I'd love it if this became "the place" to discuss our builds!

So far I have the kit, the Eduard Photo-etch, Archer transfers for PT-523 and Chun's book - I have Al Ross's plans and book on order as well!

Right now I'm just trying to read up on the history and pick out "my" boat.  I simply didn't realize how much variation there was in these boats.  My main goal is to push myself a bit modeling wise and it seems like this might be a really neat subject to do that with given the variations between individual boats!

 A couple of things I have been noticing:  Many boats are seen with the deck hatches open for ventilations.  At 1/35 scale this leaves a pretty visible hole in the deck - with no underlying detail supplied in the kit.  Do Al's plans show what was there in enough detail that this could be scratch built if I  choose to open things up a bit?

I am pretty sure I'm going to have to back date the radar housing - but I'm looking forward to this as part of my modeling skills development goal.  Any suggestions on how best to accomplish this are welcome!

 Well as I said I'm still very much in the beginning stages here, and I welcome all PT-Boat related discussion! 

If there is enough interest, maybe we could even start up a group build!

 John

  • Member since
    February 2007
  • From: Sterling, VA
Posted by oldmodeler on Saturday, December 8, 2007 4:25 PM
E-mail sent.
  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: N.E. Ohio
Posted by dragonfly on Saturday, December 8, 2007 2:40 PM

Rambling?.....not at all. I find every bit quite interesting. Thanks for all the info Ed. I do, however, feel bad for hi-jacking this thread but I tried to PM you and no go. If you get a chance, could you e-mail me at drgnfly@neo.rr.com ?  I've got a couple more questions I'd like some help with. Like.....300 Laugh [(-D] I'm an experienced aircraft builder and not new to scratch building or kit bashing, I just know zip about ships or PT boats. I had no idea there are so many variants, but this is a good thing. I really want to build one and so far all I have is the kit. Next....I need a subject. I suppose that it would be best to take the best  the kit has to offer, and make some additions to spruce it up some. I'm not opposed to aftermarket parts, hell.....I added $150. worth of parts to a 6 dollar Me 109 once. The 20mm's sound interesting. Any how, after seeing your masterpeice, I'm compeled to build a PT boat. How should I start???

now I'm rambling,

Jerry

  • Member since
    February 2007
  • From: Sterling, VA
Posted by oldmodeler on Friday, December 7, 2007 10:34 PM

If you do not want to make structural changes, model boats from PT372 up. From somewhere in the 314 to 367 range the taller air intake was used. The early ones were the same width as the hatch. The later boats had a much wider intake as shown in the 596 kit. I have photos of the 495 boat I built that show it to have the narrow but tall intake. Not sure when the wide one became standard. i guess maybe on the 565 series, maybe earlier. I'm also not sure when the revised cockpit panel was phased it. Again, my guess is with the 565 series.

I think the easiest Italeri build of a boat to see combat would be a RON 29 boat in the Med. These were 552 -563. 4 had Thunderbolts, 556-559. These would require scratch building the Thunderbolt. I think the 552-555 were built with 20mm in a Mk4 mount aft and a 20 mm in a Mk14 mount forward and they had roll-off racks. As launched they had 31/5P camo. In '44 they replaced the aft 20mm with a 40mm and the paint was probably Thayer Blue. You would need to build the SO radar and mast to replace the kits SO-3 set-up. The aft torpedoes are mounted much further aft that the 596. They did not use the 37 mm.

For the Pacific, RON 27 got the first of the 372 series and RON 38 got the last to see combat. It will depend upon which boat and when during the war you want to depict it to determine what modification are required. My guess is, unless you depict a really late boat or a boat really late in the war, you will need to make the SO radar and mast, convert the cockpit controls and make/find additional guns.

It will take a lot of research if you want to get it right. There are so many variation. The 493 from RON33, for example, was a RON-mate of my 495. I have color and B&W photos of it from New Guinea. It was Green and Brown ( probably #3 Green or 5-NG and #4 Brown), had weapons not unlike my 495 but in a slightly different arrangement and was the only PT lost during the battle of Surigao Strait. Modeling it would require the same effort as my 495.

Building a 103 series boat will be even more work because of structual changes and if you want an early war boat with tubes, even more. However, once the structure is modified, there are a lot of combinations that are plausible, especially with field fitted roll-off racks and depicted mid-war. 

Accurate Armor make a beautiful 1/35 scale 20mm on a Mk4 mount with PE brass details. It would look fantastic on the stern of the right PT. Not cheap, $50, but beautiful.

Well I've rambled too long.

Later,

Ed

  • Member since
    February 2007
  • From: Sterling, VA
Posted by oldmodeler on Friday, December 7, 2007 1:19 PM

Sorry. I should have posted the links. Thanks Ed.

Ed

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: Mansfield, TX
Posted by EdGrune on Friday, December 7, 2007 8:19 AM
 dragonfly wrote:

Sorry to hi-jack John's thread, but thanks for that info Ed. Where can one find these books?

Jerry

See Al Ross' Coastal Forces site at http://www.coastalforcesplans.com/index.html

Be sure to check his bibliograpgy page for a complete listing of books & references on the subject

Chun's "American PT Boats in WWII" is available through Amazon, among other sources

http://www.amazon.com/American-Boats-World-War-Pictorial/dp/0764302566

Another good reference is Polmar, et.al "PT Boats ar War".  It does address PT and small combatants after WWII into Vietnam.

http://www.amazon.com/PT-Boats-War-World-Vietnam/dp/0760304998

Then there is Al Ross (same Al as above) and John Lambert's "Allied Coastal Forces".  An excellent reference.

http://www.amazon.com/ALLIED-COASTAL-FORCES-WWII-designs/dp/0851776027

Then there are the popular press referecnes such as Squadron's PT Boats Inaction" by Tim Connelly

 

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: N.E. Ohio
Posted by dragonfly on Friday, December 7, 2007 8:02 AM

Sorry to hi-jack John's thread, but thanks for that info Ed. Where can one find these books?

Jerry

  • Member since
    February 2007
  • From: Sterling, VA
Posted by oldmodeler on Friday, December 7, 2007 7:39 AM

Chun's book on PT boats has several good photos of the kit's subject boat. There are a number of boats that saw combat that the kit can be backdated to but for most you will need to make/copy additional weapons and make cockpit changes (depending upon your subject). Some of the Med boats would not be a difficult backdate as most did not carry the gun load the Pacific boats did and their paint schemes are pretty simple.

Look into them and also pacific boats in the low to mid 500s, like the 524, might not be a major task.

 Chun's book as well as Al Ross' and al's data package for the 596 and for the 103 series are very helpfull.

Hope this helps.

Ed

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: N.E. Ohio
Posted by dragonfly on Thursday, December 6, 2007 8:14 PM

Hello John,

My name is Jerry (dragonfly on the AC forums) and am an aircraft builder that has never built any kind of ship, at all.  After seeing the Italeri PT boat at a show, I knew I had to try one. So far all I have is the kit. I have no reference material whatsoever and don't even know where to look. I guess what I'm asking is, if I can sort of tag along with your build and hopefully learn from you and not screw up my first ship. I know all the techniques of building models and can handle an airbrush ok I just don't know anything about boats/ships. I just took a peek at Ed Casacia's build and can only dream of anything like that. That is absolutely gorgeous!!

I've read a review on the kit and all comments were generally very good. Also, I've found a photoetch set for the model. Anyhoo....I've broken the shrink wrap and looked inside and am anxious to get my sausage-like fingers on this monster. Have you started yet?? Are there any good photos available??

 regards,

Jerry

  • Member since
    February 2007
  • From: Sterling, VA
Posted by oldmodeler on Saturday, December 1, 2007 8:30 PM

John,

Al's plans and data will be a big help. They were for me. Below are several links to more random photos taken during the build. In my research I had the good fortune to talk with 1st and 2nd generation crew of the 495 as well as the son ( Don Brown) of the skipper of the 495's squadron-mate, PT493. Their help was invaluable. One of the links is to photos of the 493 and 495 as well as other Ron 33 boats.

The 495 was called Miss Fury initially but was renamed Gentleman Jim after a crewman killed shortly after reaching the combat zone in July of '44. 

My early research led to the 493 boat and color photo evidence that it and the rest of Ron 33 were painted in a green/brown camo scheme. I believe that this was true for their action in New Guinea. John Snyder of WEM reviewed the photos and felt the brown color was probably close to Brown #4. Discussions with the son of the 493's skipper's son indicated that the brown/green pattern was carried across the deck and other horizontal surfaces. One of the links shows my green/brown paint schemes. There were 3 of them, stripping the paint between changes and then finally settling on the green/green scheme.

After finding and getting to know a crewman, Ray Wilbur, from the 495 and his son, I learned that the 495, at the time of the battle of Surigao Strait was green /green with deck green horizontals. A photo of the foredeck of the 495 shows the faint outline of the green/brown pattern covered with the deck green.  It is hard to see in the model's photos but i tried to duplicate this by painting over the green/brown deck with the deck green of my final paint scheme. The battle happened in Oct '44, 2 days after the mass movement of PT boats from New Guinea to the P.I.

The 495 was with the 493 during the battle when the 493 was lost to enemy fire. The 495 pulled the 493 off the rocks on which she grounded herself to allow the crew to be rescued so that she could sink into deep water to avoid capture.

The 495 was involved in an action with the 489 and 491 boats on the night of Nov 19/20, '44. During this action several barges were destroyed, one, exchanging gunfire while trying to ram the 495 was sunk by gunfire from the 495 at a distance of 10-15 feet.

Later in the same action, the 495 was damaged by a near-miss from a Japanese floatplane bomb. All of the crew was injured, with one, I believe, lost. Ray Wilbur was seriously wounded. While returning to get medical attention, the 489 boat and 495 collided. The 495 lost a portion of her stern but made it back for repair. Ray was returned to the states to begin a long recovery. He was a major source of help and inspiration and I cannot thank him enough. Don Brown also provided so much help and information that I don't know how to thank him either.

For the markings, insignia and stand lettering I used pain masks from Gator's paint masks. They were custom made and worked perfectly. I made the Gentleman Jim decal and used an Archer flag.

I used WEM paints, thinned with lacquer, sealed with Furure polish, weathered with oils and finished with dullcoat, also thinned with lacquer .

http://www.villagephotos.com/pubbrowse.asp?folder_id=1822847

http://www.villagephotos.com/pubbrowse.asp?folder_id=1827174

http://www.villagephotos.com/pubbrowse.asp?folder_id=1830736

Ron 33 photos:

http://www.villagephotos.com/pubbrowse.asp?folder_id=1840703

Green/Brown scheme:

http://www.villagephotos.com/pubbrowse.asp?folder_id=1941216

Photos of the final model:

http://www.modelshipwrights.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Sections&file=index&req=viewarticle&artid=1578

Here is a copy of what I did to backdate the kit that I posted in another thread:

To backdate the kit I

1. Made molds and cast 2 additional 20mm guns and parts to make 3 mounts, 2 for the additional 20s and one for the 37mm. I did not use the kits 37mm mount or base.
2. Cast the bases for the 37mm and both outboard 20mm.
3. Cast a second smoke dispenser after a 495 crewman told me she carried 2.
4. Cast 3 additional 20 mm mags.
5. Cast 4 additional "Ready-ammo" boxes.
6. Built the Radome from scratch and modified the mast.
7. Augmented the 50 cal depression bars.
8. Built the port side twin 50 cal craddle, ammo boxes and mount.
9. Added 2 50 cal and mounts and ammo boxes to the starboard 20mm to make an "Acey-Ducey". They used the same boxes as the 50 turrets so I had to made curved boxes and brackets to hold them.
10. Made mounts and added the 30 cal and boxes to splash shields.
11. Cut down the engine room hatch to the correct width for this particular boat.
12. Modified the roll-off racks to be closer to an earlier style than in the kit.
13. Modified the cockpit to look a bit like the earlier style this boat had.
14. Added PE ammo belts everywhere. The kit's plastic ones suck.
15. Used Gator's paint masks for all the markings and insignia.
16. I made the "Gentleman Jim" decal from a photo of the rear nameplate in the PT Boat display at Falls River, Mass. It was my first homemade decal.
17. Almost forgot, the kit's ammo belt feeders attached to the twin 50 cals are only positioned correcly if the guns are level. i wanted mine pointing up so I had to cut them and turn them correctly.

18. Added flash hiders to the 2 twin 50s mounted in turrets.

I hope this helps.

Ed Casacia

 

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