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Backdating a Heller 1/60th 'Sinagot'?

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  • Member since
    February 2007
Backdating a Heller 1/60th 'Sinagot'?
Posted by vonBerlichingen on Friday, December 28, 2007 9:18 AM

Hi, all.  I picked-up a 1/60th Heller 'Sinagot' kit a while back, and would like to 'backdate' it to the c. 17th century, and somewhere in Northern Europe (as opposed to Mediterranean), if possible.  I understand that the 'sinagot' is a specific type of fishing vessel which was associated with a particular area in Brittany:

http://www.amis-du-sinagot.net 

A quick web search suggests that a smack rig of some kind might be appropriate.  A few glances at sketches of 17th century vessels also imply that the vessel's stern could be slightly higher.

http://betty-ck145.com/docueng/smacks/smack_plans.html

What else might be changed?

By the way, to give you some idea of what the model could look like, if assembled as originally-intended, here is that French website's modelling page, which shows wooden sinagot models:

http://www.amis-du-sinagot.net/maquettisme/maquettisme_home.htm

Cheers & Happy New Year!

 

vonB.

  • Member since
    March 2007
  • From: Portsmouth, RI
Posted by searat12 on Sunday, December 30, 2007 12:05 PM
Well, I think you need to understand that you don't really need to 'backdate' a sinagot, as this design has been around pretty much unchanged since the 18th century, and is from Brittany, specifically Morbihan, which is on the Bay of Biscay, and not the Mediterranean.  It is descended from a boat-type called a chaloupe (or 'Shallop' in English) which was a pretty standard Northern European open boat design.  The double-ended hull design also owes much to the 'Yol,' or 'yawlboats' of the Shetlands and Faeroes, which influenced boat designs all the way down the North Sea coast of the UK, as well as the French Coast, and for the same reason; they are direct descedants of Viking craft.  The sinagots were used for shrimping and seine-netting a variety of different fish, as well as smuggling when the opportunity arose.  The two-masted lug rig is also traditional, whereas the gaff-cutter smack rig you propose is not (that comes from the 19th and early 20th century British oyster boats).  If you are really interested in these and other craft of the coast of France, then I strongly recommend you get a copy of 'Bateaux Traditionnels Francais by Yves Gaubert, distributed by 'Le Chasse-Maree' magazine.  In it, you will find ALL of the very wide variety of French traditional boat designs, of which the sinagot is just one.   If you are interested in some sort of high-sterned 17th century fishing craft that you may have seen in old paintings, you are probably thinking of one of the many Dutch designs of that era, some of which survive to this day (jachts, herring bus, lemsteraak, botter, and others).
  • Member since
    February 2007
Posted by vonBerlichingen on Monday, December 31, 2007 7:53 AM

Thanks for the details, some of which, e.g. Morbihan and the Bay of Biscay, I already knew about but had ignored for the sake of modelling a more 'generic' vessel.

Yes, the design is reminiscent of Viking craft, as well as of some contemporary, traditional designs from across the Channel.

How far back in time was the lug rig used along the Channel?  That French sinagot website suggests that a more squarish sail predated the lug sail.

Thanks for the Gaubert reference, but again, how far back does it go?  I am interested in the 17th century at the latest.

Cheers & Happy New Year!

 

 

  • Member since
    March 2007
  • From: Portsmouth, RI
Posted by searat12 on Tuesday, January 1, 2008 7:14 PM
The lug sail is a direct development of the Viking square sail rig, and when going to windward, works pretty much the same way (but is more efficient).  Early lug rigs look like a rather tall and narrow square sail that is mounted 'off-center' on the mast.  As the lug rig developed, the angle of the spar to the mast became greater and greater, eventually turning into the very high aspect luggers of modern day designs (google 'Nigel Irens' to see some modern luggers 'Romilly' and 'Roxanne').  So really, in one form or another, the lug rig as separate from the square sail rig has been used all over Northern Europe since about the 12th century.
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