Lost World War Two Sub Found

  The fire ball phenomenon reported by some vets my be the result of plasma energy. I'm no physicist, but, under conditions of extreme pressure such as geological plate shifting plasma energy is often released. I can only imagine the tremendous pressure dynamics being unloosed on an unfortunate submarine during depth charge attacks.

  I personally have never read any first hand reports of fire ball encounters(u-boat, Gato, or, otherwise), though Forest J Sterling, former yeoman of the USS Wahoo in his book Wake of the Wahoo, vividly describes the horror of enduring a sustained depth charge attack and, the aforementioned chunks of cork flying all about. It,s funny to hear in his writing all the rumors & misconceptions seamen had about being depth charged, such, as the fear of leaning against bulk heads because, it may break your back. Forest wrote that it was common for the passages to be clogged with people trying to avoid contact with the hull.

  This is becoming an interesting thread guys, I'm learning some cool stuff.

  Aloha, MacLeod  

  P.S. Fantom, I hope you don't go on eternal patrol-Its all good! I hope you keep posting.

BigJim wrote:

I have no interest in getting into a pointless argument over something I once heard from a deceased World War Two veteran for whom I have a great deal of respect!  If you will actually go back and READ what has been said, you will see that I in absolutely no way disputed what the veteran had to say. I do, however, dispute your assumption that the flash could be directly attributed to explosive matter from the depth chage entering the sub itself!  Without going back to read every sub book that I have, as I said the flashes have been documented, the flash was most likely caused by internal electrics or from some static discharge from the sudden compression. In any case it came from inside, not outside. Peace Out!

My assumption?  What else would I have to go on in the absence of any other knowledge?  Apparently, you won't give up until you bully me into admitting I was wrong and you were right.  Well, I don't like being intimidated.  I've got better things to do.  I'm outta here for good! 

I have no interest in getting into a pointless argument over something I once heard from a deceased World War Two veteran for whom I have a great deal of respect!

If you will actually go back and READ what has been said, you will see that I in absolutely no way disputed what the veteran had to say.

I do, however, dispute your assumption that the flash could be directly attributed to explosive matter from the depth chage entering the sub itself! 

Without going back to read every sub book that I have, as I said the flashes have been documented, the flash was most likely caused by internal electrics or from some static discharge from the sudden compression. In any case it came from inside, not outside.

Peace Out!

 

BigJim wrote:

fantom, The whole point is the flame from the depth charge. Yes, flashes inside from depth charging has been documented. Yes, hatches could be sprung from depth charging. However, if the depth charge was close enough for any kind of flame to enter the sprung hatch, that sub would be dead. Think about it.

Point well taken.  However, as a former Air Force type who has been on a total of three subs in his life --all of which were museum exhibits-- I'm no judge of the veracity of an old salt's sea stories.  Perhaps his mind was growing dim; perhaps he was simply regaling this land lubber with the same tall tale he once used to impress those English girls in the pubs; perhaps he actually saw something.  At any rate, I have no interest in getting into a pointless argument over something I once heard from a deceased World War Two veteran for whom I have a great deal of respect!  Let's call it here and move on to other things -- okay?

fantom,
The whole point is the flame from the depth charge. Yes, flashes inside from depth charging has been documented. Yes, hatches could be sprung from depth charging. However, if the depth charge was close enough for any kind of flame to enter the sprung hatch, that sub would be dead. Think about it.

BigJim wrote:

Apparently, up close, the concussion was so intense it would cause a microscopic momentary gap around the hatches, thereby allowing the still-burning explosives to pass through. Don't believe that for a split second. If the D/C was that close the sub would have been sunk.

Obviously, all I have to go on is the word of the submariner I heard it from.  His name was Hershall Pass, and he died about five years ago at the age of 84.  Whether this particular tale is true or not, Hershall had quite a career.  He enlisted in the Navy before the war and served on USS Enterprise when she made her shakedown cruise to Brazil.  The trip through the Panama Canal was a tense time for all because of the close quarters in the locks.  If collision had occured and a lock gate had been damaged, Enterprise would have been in for a long stay. 

Hershall went on to serve in subs and was a Pear Harbor survivor, who witnessed the opening stages of the attack from shore until strafing Japanese planes forced him and his shipmates to take cover.  He said his sub was strafed but not seriously damaged.  After several patrols in the Pacific, he spent the rest of the war in the North Atlantic shadowing German fleet movements and as part of the Scharnhorst blockade. 

Unfortunately, during the last few years of his life, Hershall developed a mild case of dementia, and his hearing became severely impared, making conversation difficult.  During this period of decline, he seemed more intersted in talking about the good times he and his shipmates had with the English girls while on shore leave than in the horrors of war.  As a Vietnam veteran, I can't say I blame him!

Apparently, up close, the concussion was so intense it would cause a microscopic momentary gap around the hatches, thereby allowing the still-burning explosives to pass through.

Don't believe that for a split second. If the D/C was that close the sub would have been sunk.

Yeah, watching Das Boat is about as close as I ever want to get to experiencing that. Truly the days of iron men.

enemeink wrote:

The San Diego Maritime Museum has a Russian sub from the Cold War that can be walked through. I can't imagine what it would be like to be in one while depth charges were going off around me.

Over the years, I've made the acquaintance of several World War Two sub veterans and talked to them about their experiences.  To a man, they said being depth charged was the just about most terrifying experience a person could go through.  No place to hide, no foxhole to take cover in -- just grit your teeth and pray.  About the only comfort was knowing that if the pressure hull gave way, you'd be dead before you felt anything.  One of them spoke of the cork insulation on the inside of the pressure hull becoming dislodged and flying through the compartments.  Another said when a depth charge exploded nearby, you could actually see an instantaneous flash of fire travel through the compartments.  Apparently, up close, the concussion was so intense it would cause a microscopic momentary gap around the hatches, thereby allowing the still-burning explosives to pass through.  He went on to say that not many submariners saw that phenomenon and lived to tell about it because it usually meant the enemy had your location pinpointed, and the next charge, or the one after, was going to land on top of you. 

I've been told if you want to get some inkling of what a depth charging was like, watch the movie Das Boot with a good surround sound system and the volume turned up to the threshold of pain!

The San Diego Maritime Museum has a Russian sub from the Cold War that can be walked through. I can't imagine what it would be like to be in one while depth charges were going off around me.

Interesting.

Thanks for sharing.

Mike

    Howdy Fantom

  They also have recently located the wreck of the USS Wahoo of the cost of Japan. There are some first person recolections by some IJN service men of that attack which are quite interesting to read. Poor old Wahoo had a pretty handsome price on her head.

    Regards, MacLeod