How many belaying pins on a Spannish Galleon?

12 to 114, depending on which fit is being portrayed...

I revive this thread to post link to the very detailed photo-review of ex-imai now aoshima 1/100 scale Spanish Galleon. My personal thanks to the superb German ship modelling website "modellmarine.de"

http://www.modellmarine.de/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1885:aoshima-spanische-galeone-1100&catid=7

searat12 wrote:

Yes, on the surface, this seems like the question 'how long is a piece of string?'  That said, I agree with Prof Tilley in that the use of belaying pins and their associated pinrails appear gradually after the beginning of the 17th century, which if this ship is supposed to look like something from the 16th century, would probably be out of place.  Instead, it appears that most scholars and surviving texts would say that sheets were generally belayed with either 'staghorns' (which rather look like large wooden 'V's' fastened firmly to the inside of the bulwarks, or bitts of various types, or simply made off usi9ng the rail itself.  At the base of each of the masts there should be a large set of bitts to which any number of lines could be belayed using a clove hitch, and it is probable that this is the origin of the later pinrail at the base of the masts of later ships (basically, the only change would be to drill a bunch of holes through the horozontal piece connecting the bitts and stick pins through it). You might want to have a peek at one of the 'Vasa' websites to get more clues, though Vasa is admittedly a bit later in the era (1620-ish?).

 

ModelBob said he thought he had the blueprints on which the model is based, the box on the kit makes the claim of 1605 and modelbob said his drawings were based on a 1607 design. He never got back with the data though. 

No doubt they come in 5 packs

subfixer wrote:

Six

Three more than you have ordered and two dozen less than you wind up ordering.

Yes, on the surface, this seems like the question 'how long is a piece of string?'  That said, I agree with Prof Tilley in that the use of belaying pins and their associated pinrails appear gradually after the beginning of the 17th century, which if this ship is supposed to look like something from the 16th century, would probably be out of place.  Instead, it appears that most scholars and surviving texts would say that sheets were generally belayed with either 'staghorns' (which rather look like large wooden 'V's' fastened firmly to the inside of the bulwarks, or bitts of various types, or simply made off usi9ng the rail itself.  At the base of each of the masts there should be a large set of bitts to which any number of lines could be belayed using a clove hitch, and it is probable that this is the origin of the later pinrail at the base of the masts of later ships (basically, the only change would be to drill a bunch of holes through the horozontal piece connecting the bitts and stick pins through it). You might want to have a peek at one of the 'Vasa' websites to get more clues, though Vasa is admittedly a bit later in the era (1620-ish?).

I have to disagree, very slightly and respectfully, with Flitch.  Mr. Lees's comment on the introduction of the belaying pin is pretty sketchy - and, as Flitch correctly points out, relates strictly to English warships.  And the coverage of his book starts after the period we've been discussing.  To assert positively that a Spanish galleon of 1588 would have no belaying pins at all is to assert too much. It's certainly possible that such a ship would have no belaying pins, but the evidence isn't firm enough to support such an assertion.

The equally knowledgable (and somewhat more recent) book by Brian Lavery, Anatomy of the Ship:  The Colonial Merchantman Susan Constant, 1605, has this to say (p. 37):  "Racks of belaying pins were not known as such, but both Mainwaring [English, 1623] and Boteler [French, 1630s]  mention 'ranges', which were rather like small versions of the main bitts, with two verticals and a horizontal piece.  Each horiontal had 'divers wooden pins through it, to belay ropes unto' (Mainwaring p. 207).  These were the forerunners of the belaying pin, though it cannot be assumed that they had the characteristic shape.  There were only two of these ranges, one aft of the foremast and one on the beakhead, 'before the woldings of the bowsprit.'  Mainwaring mentions various ropes which are fitted to these ranges, kincluding most of those of the spritsail; in general, this has been followed [in Mr. Lavery's reconstruction of the Susan Constant].  The vertical of the foremast range also serves as the knighthead for the halyard of the foreyard.  Each range has eight pins."

Both those sources are a little late for our present purposes - and neither of them is Spanish.  But, as I noted in my first post in this thread, to my knowledge nobody has yet found a contemporary Spanish source that would answer the question definitively.

R.C. Anderson, whom we've mentioned earlier in this thread, says something generally similar:  that belaying pins (though they may or may not have been referred to by that name) were in use in the seventeenth century, but nowhere near as frequently as during later periods.  (He adds the comment [p. 79] that "in a general way they did the lightest work.)

I mentioned Mr. Kirsch's fine book in my first post in this thread; I think it's probably the best place to start on a project like this.  The Conway's History of the Ship volume that I mentioned earlier does express some reservations about it, though, describing it (p. 178) as a "modern attempt to understand the galleon as a European-wide ship type.  Nicely illustrated, knowlegeable about England, and cites souces from other areas in northern Europe.  Demonstrates little knowledge about maritime history in southern Europe, however, which detracts from the general value of the book."  The tone of that comment rubs me slightly the wrong way, but it does suggest that a great deal of research remains to be done regarding Spanish galleons.

Bottom line:  if I encountered a model of a Spanish vessel from 1588 that didn't have any belaying pins, I wouldn't criticize it on those grounds.  I also wouldn't criticize such a model if it had a few belaying pins in the crosspieces of the bitts at the feet of the masts, and on the beakhead.  But if it had long rows of belaying pins in pinrails inside the bulwarks, or on racks secured inside the shrouds, I'd think it probably was anachronistic.

It would seem that the kits very sketchy inclusion of a grand total of four belaying pins at the mainmast may even be too many eh? I wont be adding more then, I will still add the cleats to the bases of the masts though, that seems to jive a little better with the style of the day.

Thanks for all the great replies. 

     The short answer is none at all.  James Lees, in his book "The Masting and Rigging of English ships of War 1625-1860" makes it clear that belaying pins were used in racks attached to the shrouds of small ships, but did not appear in large ships until the late 18th century.  This is, however, English (and to a degree Continental) practice.  An examination of the illustrations in Jean Boudriot's "Modeles Historique" and "Historic Ship Models" (two different books) seem to support Lees' assertion - but again this is French practice of a later era. 

     There is a book by Peter Kirsch called "Galleon - The Great ship of the Armada Era" ISBN 0 85177 566 2, published by Conway Maritime Press Ltd 1988 which presents, with illustrations and extracts from contemporary documents, information gathered by the author in order to  reconstruct a model. Rigging is covered in Chapter 2 (12 pages) and later, in Chapter 8 which contains a highly detailed rigging diagram.  The impression I gained was that belaying points were chosen for their ability to take the strain.   Hope this helps.  Flitch

Appreciated, mostly I just wanted to know how many belaying points were necessary in and around the central decks around the masts. Any around the outside railing can be got at at any point in the build but by the time I get to the end of the running rigging and find I need five more points at the base of the mainmast it might be hard to get them in there. I'm still studying how many lines go where but wanted to keep detailing the hull while I learn the rigging.

               Six           

I have that kit which I bought several years ago. I got hull almost finished when I had to move. In moving, I lost some of the mast and yard parts. Maybe I'll dig her out and finish her. More to the point however, I also have a set of Italian drawings to build a plank on bulkhead model of that exact ship. Drawn by a Vincenzo Lusci the model would be about 2 1/2 feet long. The plans are dated 1959 and shows a Galeoni of 1607. Iami must have used these plans to make their kit. I can count all the belayings if you really want me to! modelbob@hotmail.com 

lol, yes I just priced that at Amazon, Jesum Crow, I'll try to find the paperback. So right now it would seem there are enough belaying pins, I plan on belaying the standing rigging to the cleats I'm adding to the bases of the masts, the knightheads have their own belaying points, there are Kevels for the mainsail, which will have to be relocated away from the cannon. Anything needing to be tied off after that will be d one to the rails I guess in the era's proper fashion. I have the aftermarket bronze cannons for the upper deck on the way wich will allow the kit's model cannons to be rigged up on the lower deck which will be visible through the grating above. Right now I'm trying to locate the smallest possible terminal blocks for wiring the dozen or so led's that will illuminate the lower decks (that I'm scratchbuilding now).

Figures are proving problematic too, so far all I've found are 15mm wargaming figures of pirates. As this is a christmas present for my mother in law and she loves stuff like that I may go with those. I guess it will be a "what if" post boarding scenario. :o)

Again, thanks for the help. 

Glad to be of help.  The twelve volumes of the Conway's History of the Ship series are a great way to start a nautical library - thorough, well-researched, and reasonably up to date.  My biggest criticism of the series is that I think it really ought to have the word "Western" in the series title somewhere.  The first volume, The Earliest Ships, contains a chapter on the early Asian shipbuilding traditions, but the later volumes drop the subject almost entirely.  The series does not provide comprensive treatment of Chinese or Japanese junks, for instance - to say nothing of African ship types. 

The price of the original hardback edition was pretty formidable, but a few years ago Conway issued a paperback edition that's considerably cheaper.  I imagine used copies of most of the volumes can also be tracked down.

That model looks beautiful - to my eye the most reasonable interpretation of a Spanish galleon on the market.  You're right:  it deserves a good rigging job.

That's a tremendous help, especially the literary references which I'll be placing an order for this afternoon, thank you.

As you point out information is sketchy, the model has around 100 belaying pins positioned already. The Anderson book mentions what you say about using the railings and such throughout most of the sixteenth century with the belaying pins being introduced in the late sixteenth to early seventeenth, as more info seems available regarding the first couple decades of the seventeenth I'm going to try and represent that era as well as I can.

This model was supposed to be a quick throw together just to get familiarized with the sailing ship genre but AMS is setting in.

Thanks for all the great info.

 

Progress got put on hold here as I'm redesigning the interior and lower decks along with lighting system:

The bad news is that there's no real answer to this question.  That's also the good news.

The phrase "Spanish galleon" is part of the vocabulary of historical romance as well as genuine history.  Unfortunately nobody is sure just what a Spanish galleon looked like.  Only a few, extremely sketchy Spanish texts about shipbuilding and/or naval architecture from the sixteenth century have been found, and no reliable plans of any sort.  (The first known plans of English warships, those in the Matthew Baker Manuscript at Oxford, date from about the same time you're presumably talking about here - the late sixteenth century.  They're extremely controversial and subject to a great deal of interpretation - and they have no Spanish equivalent.)  I haven't built the Imai/Aoshima kit, but it has a good reputation (as almost all the old Imai kits do).  I have the impression that it's considerably superior to the vast majority of kits - plastic and wood - that are floating around under the "Spanish galleon" label.

Just about any figure for tonnage prior to the twentieth century has to be taken with a large grain of salt, because the earlier shipwrights didn't actually have a mathematical system for measuring how much a ship weighed.  They generally talked in terms of cargo-carrying capacity, and the vocabulary they used varied from nation to nation and from time to time.  The relevant volume in the Conway's History of the Ship series, Cogs, Caravels and Galleons:  The Sailing Ship, 1000-1650, defines "tonelada" as "Spanish measure of tonnage.  See codo."  "Codo" is defined as "Spanish measure of length, varying according to source:  early references work out at 574-575 mm and 557-559 mm, but in 1618 it was 560 mm.  Cubic codos were used for tonnage, being divided by eight to produce the Spanish toneladas."  I'd have serious reservations about working out rigging diameters on the basis of that. 

Belaying point plans have always been a source of frustration for ship modelers.  Figuring out where all the running rigging lines of a ship should be belayed in virtually any period is a challenge; the contemporary documentation just isn't good enough.  In general, the belaying pin (as opposed to the cleat, the kevel, and various other means of securing the ends of lines temporarily) seems to have been pretty rare in ships of the sixteenth century and most of the seventeenth.  I've read that some belaying pins were found in the wreck of the Mary Rose, but contemporary models from the seventeenth century - about the earliest real scale models extant - have few belaying pins, if any.  It seems to have been more common, in earlier periods, to tie lines off to timberheads, cleats, kevels, and, with a frequency that seems a little surprising, to other lines.  It apparently was quite common, for instance, to "belay" running rigging lines by hitching them around the lower ends of shrouds and stays.

The Anderson book is a classic, but most of the material in it is a little too modern for a ship of the Armada period.  The most recent relevant book that I'm aware of is The Galleon, by Peter Kirsch.  It contains a set of plans - including excellent rigging diagrams - for a generic galleon of the late sixteenth century.  If I were tackling a model like this, that's where I'd start. 

The nice thing about building a model of such an early ship is that nobody can say for absolute certain that anything you do to it is wrong.  (Well, ok, if you put a photo-etched radar screen at the main masthead....But nobody can tell you definitively that a line is belayed in the wrong place.) 

I'm afraid I haven't helped much.  I do suggest the Conway and Kirsch books.  Good luck.