DAZZLE SHIPS.....a correct term?

I plan on buying as many as I can!

I love to chat with the vets and I ALLWAYS SAY THANK YOU FOR SERVING!!

Found a website http://www.flight-history.com and in their photosection they have some interesting USN and carrier sections. Mentioned it in another forum but know some people only check their immediate area of interest.
Interesting shot of dazzle painted US carrier circa 1944. Interesting if someone could identify the coastline. Also various deck shots of life aboard carriers.
Dazzle was, I believe, used more in WW1 and it was only when I saw some paintings in a war museum did i realize that they used red and other bright colours in the patterns - black and white photos being black and white. DUH!!!!!
Remember to Remember on the 11th - buy a poppy please!

Thanks Jeff, that makes sense.
Bruce

Bruce,

The 'Das Boot' U-boat (from what I remember from the DVD) was only something like 40' feet long...they did build a replica Turm for the movie though, and I think that's now on display either at Laboe or the Deutches Museum.

Jeff

Jeff:
I heard they constructed a 1:1 boat for Das Boot; do you know if that is true and if so what happened to it?

PS:
There is a WW1 U-boat on display (with the side cut away) in the Munich museum of technology (saw it in '77).

Daniel Gallery (USN, ret'd) wrote a series of tongue in cheek autobiographical memoirs, one of which is called 'Clear the Decks'. In it he describes capturing the U-505.

Bruce

U-505 is actually a Type IX boat, considerably bigger than a Type VIIc.

The only Type VIIC that's above water is the U-995 in Laboe.

Regards,

Jeff

Thanks Jeff,

I would tend to agree with you on that.

Now I want to go to Chicago and see the Sub they have there! I bet thats pretty cool?....isn't that Sub a VII C?

It can be a hell to paint though....
By the way the most realistic sub movie gota be the "Das Boot"?

I've read the text...and I don't think it was taken from any historical context...there's too much Hollwood in it. There are some inconsistencies in the submarine portion of the story, for instance, coming up to periscope depth, looking around, and surfacing, only to be immediately jumped by a dazzle painted destroyer... An event like that happening would have meant the court martial of the sound man...especially when you can hear a DD moving from miles away. Has it happened before? Probably, but, if a DD was lurking about without her engines on, it would have taken her a pretty good amount of time to get up to speed. HIghly unlikely, since any sitting ship is an easy target.

The shearing off of the radio mast is another...'all the noise suddenly stopped' or something to that effect. U-boats could only operate their radio gear from the surface, and there certainly wouldn't be any way to tell that a radio array had been swept clean until you tried to send a message, but then again, you would have noticed when you surfaced. The mere fact that there's 'noise' in the boat contradicts standard U-boat practice, especially when something as simple as dropping a wrench could give your position away to sonar operators on the surface.

The captain's orders of 'get us the hell out of here' is also a bit Hollywood. At at maximum submerged speed of 7 knots, where are they going? Besides, there was no comment about the necessary things like closing main vents, what depth to set, what down angle on the planes to set, what speed, course, etc...

I'm not saying it couldn't have been a passage taken from a war diary, but it doesn't read like any I've ever read...

My two pence,

Jeff Herne
Modelwarships.com

AHHHHHH!!!!!!!

Text?
LOL
Bruce

THANKS Jones!

But does anyone reconize the text at all

The dazzle schemes had a twofold purpose. One was to break up the outline of the ship while the other was to prevent the the Gunnery Officer getting a "Cut" with his rangefinder. Unfortunately the Germans did not use this type of range finder! But we do get some interesting colour schemes. The "Western approaches" scheme was used by almost all of the allied navies, with minor changes, in many theatres.
Most of the schemes used by the US navy were variations of the Thyler research done between the wars. The US navy called these schemes Measures ie measure 4. I do have a complete list of all these schemes and will post it if required. The reason for the change in stacks on the Flowers from angled to verticle was to make the judging of anles of attack difficult for U Boats.
There were many other schemes eg Peter Scott, Mountbattern Pink.
I hope that this is of use.
Dai

Here is a link to the text I was talking about.....see if it sounds like something you have read before?

just click on the pages for the FULL view.

http://www.neiltaylor.co.uk/dazzle_ships_tour_programme.htm

Slightly off topic, but the RCN used pastel green and blue colours with white (among other patterns), that particular scheme was referred to as 'Western Approaches'. Also later build corvettes had their funnels straightened, that combined with the camo was supposed to both break up the silhouette of the ship and make it hard to determine the vessel's course.
Bruce

Transcribe it and send it along, I'll do some research for you.

Jeff

Thanks Jeff!

The band OMD from the eighties had a LP called DAZZLE SHIPS with a striking cover art of drk blue, grey and white shapes.....I have never made the connection untill I got it on CD a few months ago and there is some text on the inner sleeve that seems to be a section from a U-boat captains diary...very interesting. There is nothing saying where it comes from or who wrote it.....I'm trying to find out though.

Dazzle or Disruptive camouflage was very common on ships in WW1, and during WW2 until late 1944 to early 1945. Most ships using this type of camouflage were referred to as 'wearing dazzle'.

The purpose is to break up the outline of the ship to provide course deception...when you think the old phrase 'can't tell if he's comin' or goin' explains this principle quite well... imagine throwing an armor piercing round out 10,000 yards, trying to hit a target that's doing 30 knots, and is 600 feet long. miscalculate the range, or course heading of the target and you miss...same hold true for torpedoes...

With regards to U-boats, there were a few examples of boats wearing camouflage. A few of the Monsoon boats (Type XIs) that operated in the Indian Ocean, and a few Type VIIs early on in the war. Overall, it was not common practice. Most wore the overall medium gray with Oxide Red lower hull early in the war, and then went to the medium gray upper / dark gray lower by late 1941 early '42. Type IX boats did not wear Red Oxide on their lower hulls.

Very late in the war, some boats wore overall colors, but those would have to be researched. Type XXIs often wore an overall gray color.

Hope this answers your questions.

Jeff Herne
Modelwarships.com