ATTENTION SAILING SHIP MODELERS!

@ kapudan emir effendi:

Hello,

I have contacted the Revell of Germany guy and he will forward your proposal
to the person who is responsible for ship models. But he says there is only
a chance of 5 (in words: FIVE) percent, to have a shipmodel from WW I,
because there is not much request for WW I models, that era would be too far away....

The next meeting with the owners of Revell will be end of october, then new model
proposals will be presented to them and hopefully some interesting proposals
will be accepted.....

Greetings from Germany,

Axel  

 

@ kapudan emir effendi:

Hello,

thats an interesting proposal. And it would be a nice addition to the light cruisers
SMS Dresden and SMS Emden in 1:350 scale by Revell of Germany.

I have sent the proposal to the Revell guy and I am looking forward to his answer
with interest. My argument for the importance of your proposal was the increasing
interest in 1:350 scale warship kits.
The difficulty is that the product planners of ROG have to present their plans
to the owners and then these decide whether to produce a model or not.....

As far as I know, there only 1:700 scale waterline kits of the ship exist,
maybe from HP models or WSW. Or NNT Modell. I can check that for you.
And there is a large choice of 1:350 scale cardboard models of WW I ships,
maybe there is a YAVUZ or GOEBEN as well.

I will be back if I have more news for you. 

Axel AKA Woxel

 

  

 

Woxel59 wrote:

I just had a short discussion with one of the guys at Revell of Germany about making a kit of the dutch sailing vessel "De zeven provincien", just like they did with the "Batavia". I got the response that there is an interest in this object but as the replica of the vessel is still under construction at the Bataviawarf in the Netherlands, they will have to wait until the replica is finished and that can last another few years..... No other plans for sailing ships at this time. Maybe the manufacturers of the Far East will discover this field and hopefully will issue some NEW sailing ship models.

Greetings Woxel, It's very interesting to hear that you have a contact with the Revell-Europe production planning section. Not a sailing ship, but I have a certain vessel in my heart which had almost became an obsession to see as a 1/350 scale styrene kit: SMS Goeben. I still have difficulty in understanding why she, "the ship that changed the world" in Dan van der Vat's immortal words, still did not appear in plastic. Right from the moment she touched the sea to the day she went to the scrapyard, Goeben became stuff of a legend everywhere, a ship known to everybody who has even a basic interest for naval history. Here in Turkey, "Yavuz" as she's known, Goeben is subject of folksongs and proverbs. The English language books and articles about her can fill a small library. Moreover, a 1/350 scale Goeben can be reboxed with minimal effort as her sistership SMS Moltke in a late war configuration. And there is more: she can be boxed as TRS (Turkish Republican Ship) Yavuz in her late 1930's fit with her aftermast shipped out for some extra AA. May you ask to your connection at Revell if they shall think about a 1/350 Goeben, if possible please ? I own an excellent monograph about her and her companion the light cruiser SMS Breslau; written by Ahmet Güleryüz and Bernd Langensiepen, the foremost authorities about the 19th century Ottoman Navy. The book has a wealth of admirable quality photographs, many coming from private archives and published for the first time, along with two 1/250 scale plans of both Goeben and Breslau for modelers. In case Revell administration shall be interested, I can send them this monograph from my own pocket along with some other visual sources that can be helpful.

Hello-jtilley;   I caught mention of the BALCLUTHA as I,ve been reading this thread. I do believe( you may want to keelhaul me )that the OLD sailing ship by AURORA (I don,t remember the scale) Has a rigging plan similar to the BALCLUTHA. When I first saw this ship ,she didn,t even have her tops,yards etc. Pictures I,ve seen seem to back up the thought,that maybe she was NOT clipper rigged but a TRUE ship rig ,using some incorporated later sail and yard placement. I have NEVER seen a photo of her rigged out ANYWHERE in a CALIFORNIA maritime museum! I too thought about a model, But there,s to many unknowns.I am enjoying this thread.The sailing ship has always been a fascination of mine. I,ve done plastic and wood and,yes one resin hulled ship.And I still gravitate back to plastic. Having gotten good pictures of H.M.S. SURPRISE,I am contemplating cleaning out my ship part warehouse.  thank you  tankerbuilder

I have focused my lobbying efforts on Airfix because they have shown interest in the past and the overall quality of their ships has generally been high.  I have also lobbied RoG, a company that has shown some interest, as well as Lindberg in the U.S.  But, if you guys believe that lobbying the Asian companies could be fruitful, then let's lobby them as well!

I firmly believe that we the builders should lobby as many companies as possible.  They don't seem to realize that we are out here; they seem to get their marketing research based on our not buying the same old products they have been limiting themselves to producing over the past 50-60 years.  We need to make it clear to them that we exist and that we want new products!

Bill Morrison

I just had a short discussion with one of the guys at Revell of Germany
about making a kit of the dutch sailing vessel "De zeven provincien",
just like they did with the "Batavia". I got the response that there is an
interest in this object but as the replica of the vessel is still under construction
at the Bataviawarf in the Netherlands, they will have to wait until the replica
is finished and that can last another few years.....
No other plans for sailing ships at this time.
Maybe the manufacturers of the Far East will discover this field
and hopefully will issue some NEW sailing ship models.   

I get the impression, though I could be wrong, that sailing ship models don't have quite as much appeal to the Far Eastern home market (which, I've heard, is still the main market for manufacturers there and the main influence on their choice of subject; exports are secondary) as they do in North America and (especially) Europe. Imai seem to have been a "one-off". Whatever the case, I don't think there have been any new sailing ship models from the Far East other than Trumpeter's Cheng Ho treasure ship and (rather half-hearted) Mayflower.

My #1 list of suggestions for Airfix would still be:
HMS Warrior, 1860 (1/200?)
Mary Rose (1/144?)
SS Great Britain (1/144 or 1/200?)

- especially HMS Warrior (a personal favourite!) All 3 are museum ships in Britain and, other than Caldercraft's excellent Mary Rose wood kit, models of them are nonexistent other than cheap wood souvenir models. A good quality, reasonably affordable kit would surely sell well in the museum shops at Portsmouth and Bristol!

There are plenty of other subjects I'd like to see (like HMS Shannon and Vanguard, as mentioned by warshipguy) but the above 3 would combine good market appeal with subjects that really deserve to be available in kit form!

I haven't read the entire thread (it's of epic proportions) but has anyone considered posing these same suggestions and pleas to the Japanese, Chinese and Korean companies? Airfix seems like it's constantly lurching around with one foot in the grave, while the Asian companies continue to outdo each other with new molds and varied subject matter. I realize Airfix has a long tradition of manufacturing sailing ships, but those days are long gone and they don't seem to be in any position to take chances.

 HELLO -JTILLEY! I do have to ring in here if only for this . The last IMAII and OTAKI sailing ships I built had a strange type of plastic for their spars and decks . It actually took a stain ,just like wood (the instructions recommended it !! ) I still have one of the old MARX ship kits ,And mine has METAL embossed decks!!!!! I recently acquired another and it too has these decks !!. The reason I sought these out was they have the YANKEE stern rather than the "spoon " stern . catchya later  tankerbuilder

I wish to bump this thread to the fore again.  I have written the following letter to Mr. Mark Lodge of Airfix Customer Relations and wish to encourage as many of you as possible to do the same.

Attn: Mr. Mark Lodge
Re: Recommended new sailing ship model kits

Dear Mr. Lodge,

I am at home looking at an old Airfix 1/600 model kit of the British Frigate HMS Shannon, the ship that reversed a series of British defeats against the heavy American frigates during the War of 1812.  I am also wondering at the complete lack of interest in manufacturing historic British sailing ship kits, in spite of the fact that the Royal Navy was at the height of its glory during the Anglo-Dutch Wars and the French/Napoleonic Wars, especially by a British model company.  I know of quite a few American model builders who have written to you about this neglect to no effect.

Sir, the model kit manufacturers have ignored sailing ship enthusiasts over the decades by virtually neglecting to manufacture NEW kits manufactured to today's high standards of quality.  They simply rebox and re-release their tired old products and expect us to continue to buy them.  When we do not respond by buying kits we already have, they conclude that there is no interest in sailing ships.

NOTHING could be further from the truth!  One simply has to witness the rise of the wooden ship modeling industry to see that there is widespread interest in these subjects.  People are buying these kits in spite of their hideously expensive prices.  There is simply no alternative for us.

Consider that aforementioned HMS Shannon kit; no builder seriously considers 1/600 scale a reasonable scale for these ships.  Sailing ships are best built at 1/150, 1/144, or 1/100 scale.  A ship of Shannon's stature would be expected to be represented at 1/100.  THERE WOULD BE SERIOUS BUYERS for such a kit!

I have made many recommendations to you over the past several years for a NEW LINE of sailing ship kits, none of which has reached fruition.  So, once again, I will make the following recommendations for starters:

HMS Shannon
HMS Bellerophon
HMS Vanguard
HMS Agamemnon
HMS Queen Charlotte
De Zeven Provencien
Bucentaure

Great Britain has a rich naval heritage that should be represented as extensively as possible in ship model kits.  I am somewhat disappointed that Airfix has chosen to ignore this heritage that, as an American, I can fully appreciate.  Please, please consider extending your range of sailing ship kits to include NEWLY MANUFACTURED products!!

Thank you for your consideration.

Bill Morrison

I want to bump this thread to the front again in order to continue encouraging sailing ship modelers to write to the manufacturers. I sincerely believe that we must collectively pressure them to produce new kits. Thanks for your support in this and keep those emails and letters going!

Bill Morrison

searat12,

Thanks for that information!  I just became a supporter of the project.  I will also recommend that Airfix produce a kit of the Hermione!

Bill Morrison

Yes, the Dutch have been working on the Zeven Provincien for some time.  In fact, this is the second attempt, as the first try (building with traditional Dutch methods) was a failure and they had to start again using 'English' methods of construction.  The French are also buildinga lovely ship, the frigate 'Hermione,' which is the ship Lafayette sailed back to France on.  Haven't heard much from them in some time, but last time I checked the ship was fully in frame, a fair bit of planking work has been done as well as decks, so if Lindberg would like to try again at producing an accurate French frigate, now would be a good time to look into it  http://www.hermione.com/

I have just found out that the Dutch are building a replica ship of De Ruyter's Zeven Provencien just as they did the Batavia.  According to their website, it should be finished by 2015. On that basis, I recommended to Mark Lodge of Airfix that they should produce a model of the Zeven Provencien just as Revell did of Batavia. I recommended a scale of 1/144.  I have also recommended a 1/96 scale of HMS Shannon and HMS Trincomalee.  Please keep those letters going!

Bill Morrison

Yup.... For instance, I wouldn't mind seeing a British frigate, like 'HMS Shannon' produced in a scale similar to those of 'Constitution.'  This is something that has been a bit of a pet peeve of mine for awhile..... While you can get comparative tanks, airplanes and/or modern warships, this is just not the case with sailing ship models (I don't know why!).  Certainly, such ships as 'USS Constitution' would have no fame at all if not for the existence of such opposing ships as 'HMS Java,' and the same can be said for just about every other sailing warship as well....

Those are excellent subjects.  Please send an email to Mr. Mark Lodge of the Airfix Division of Hornby Hobbies.  Simply access the Hornby Hobbies web site with a Google search, click into "Customer Support," then click into "Contact Us", and leave your message. 

I believe that it is very important for us to do so if we builders ever want to see new products released. JTilley  hit the nail on the head when he wrote of Revell's re-release of the USS Constitution that, although he was happy for the re-release, he had no intention of buying one.  That is the problem with the market research done by the manufacturers . . . they continue re-releasing old  products, then reach the conclusion that sailing ship modelers are few in number because we do not buy that which we already have.  The more people who contact them the better!  We need to keep up pressure on the manufacturers.

Bill Morrison

Returning to the subject of possible new Airfix sailing ship kits, the three subjects I'd nominate would undoubtedly be: HMS Warrior, SS Great Britain, and Mary Rose.

All 3 are museum ships in Britain, and all of these ships complement the existing Airfix "Classic Ships" range; Airfix already have kits showing the development of the sailing warship from the 16th century galleon (Golden Hind, Revenge) to the 18th century ship of the line (Victory) with the Sovereign, Vasa, St. Louis and HMS Prince in between, and the Mary Rose and Warrior would add a 15th century carrack and a mid 19th century sail-and-steam ironclad to the lineup.
And as Airfix already have a kit of Brunel's paddle steamer PS Great Western, the Great Britain would complement this very nicely.

To keep the size (and price) of the kits approximately the same as the rest of the Airfix range, I'd guess the scales of could be 1/200 for the two steamers and 1/144 for the Mary Rose.

jtilley wrote: 

There's also a bit of positive news from Revell:  http://www.revell.com/news/index.html . 

The 1/96 Constitution is coming back.  (I've seen quite a few in stores lately, but it's been off the websites of both Revell U.S. and Revell Europe for a while.)  I have no intention of buying one, but in my opinion it's one of the real classic kits that always ought to be available - another one of my personal top ten.

This is precisely why we need to keep writing to the manufacturers!  If they persist in re-releasing previously released kits, it does not take long before each of us has built all of their offerings and have no need to continue buying!  I agree that this model of the Constitution ought to be available in perpetuity, however, I already not only have this model gracing my shelves but the United States as well. I have also built this model as USS President.  In my humble opinion, Revell should not only be producing this kit but many others in order to keep the buyers interested.  Otherwise, the comment that ship modelers only make up a small percentage of modelers becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy.

Bill Morrison

On the positive side . . . here is the latest comment received from Customer Care at Hornby Hobbies.

Dear Mr Morrison

I have added the individual ships and the scale details to my (rapidly expanding) list of customer suggestions. As you can appreciate although we do look through this and take it into consideration, I cannot guarantee any of these kits are produced. However I have spoken to our marketing department and they have told me there is a plan to introduce more sailing ships, although it is unlikely to be next year, but watch this space.

Yours Sincerely

Mark Lodge

Airfix Customer Care

Enquiry Type:

General

I would like to take a poll. How many of you have written to Hornby Hobbies and / or Revell about releasing more sailing ship model kits? I am curious. Thanks!

Bill Morrison

As far as I know, the splitting of US and European Revell took place, when
Hallmark / Binney Smith sold Revell. For a short time (maybe one or two years)
Revell of Germany was ran as an AG (Aktiengesellschaft = Corporation), I dont know
whether they ever have sold stocks. Then it changed to a GMBH (limited liability
corporation). They have no financial connection with Revell USA (actual state
of my knowledge), but work together closely, exchanging tools or just kits.
Revell GMBH exchanges kits (or tools) with Italeri and Hasegawa of Japan, because
Hasegawa is Revell´s distributor in Japan. I was told that its not easy to research
where old tools for planned reissues are located. After the successful run of
limited reissues of kits to celebrate Revell of Germany´s 50 anniversary in 2006,
(for example Jupiter rocket, Field gun, Ford 1959 Skyliner, Boeing SST, S.S. Oriana),
with historic box art, it was decided to begin the just launched "Classics" series. Not all
reissues will have the original box art, because sometimes Revell doesnt own the
rights of the paintings. In such cases they let create new box art in old style.   

Woxel59 wrote:

It seems that Revell Europe/Germany (Revell closed it´s factory in Great Britain in the early 1980s, as far as I know) often issues different models than in the USA.

 

As I understand it Revell USA and Revell Germany / Europe are in fact two completely seperate companies at this time that just share a similar name. They do have a close relationship though as they do release each others kits occasionally in their own box, usually with minor differences (color of plastic, decals etc). RoG also has a similar relationship with Italeri which Revell USA does not seem to have.

Woxel59 wrote:

But it proves, that Revell of Germany tries to find new ways or to produce items which never had been produced before. And two years ago the tanker "Esso Glasgow" (ex.J.B. Hannah) and the freighter "Hawaiian Pilot" had been reiussed, as well as the "Savannah", old tools off course, but not produced over a long period. Luckyly at Revell Germany still real "plastic people" are leading the company, not investors who try to make profit quickly and then resell the company.

 

This came up in another post awhile back, Revell USA had a major change in management in 2007, and is now being run by model people, but they do not appear to be ship people. They have brought out several nice new car models and have retooled some of their older car kits as well adding new parts / re-doing faults with the earlier kit.  

At one time, I've had all the versions. For some reason, I believe they were the same kit, although my memory may also be faulty.  I seem to remember the same lack of hull details in each of them.  But, it does build into an attractive model. The original Marx version was also packaged as SWORDFISH and had a different figurehead. Both had metal decks.

Bill Morrison

I'm as sure as I can be that the Revell Chinese Junk was a reboxing of the old Aurora kit.  I remember looking at the photos of the finished model on the box.

The history of the various Sea Witch kits is a little confusing.  We've had several interesting discussions of the subject here in the Forum; this is the most recent and thorough: /forums/914783/ShowPost.aspx

The problem is that nobody seems to have all four kits - Marx, ITC, Aurora, and Lindberg - to compare side by side.  (The ITC one may in fact be a figment of my imagination; I used to think I remembered having seen it, but that may be my senile memory at work again.)  I bought the Aurora one, along with its siblings Wanderer, Bonhomme Richard, and Hartford, when they were new, but I've never had my hands on the other versions.  On the basis of what other Forum members have said, I think the Marx and Lindberg versions (and the ITC one, if it in fact existed) are the same kit, except that some time or other the original Marx metal deck got replaced by a plastic one.  And I'm currently inclined to believe that the Aurora one was a completely different, and considerably smaller, kit - though based, like the other(s), on the same plans by Charles Davis.  I may be mistaken about that, though.

Those four Aurora sailing ships from the late sixties (Sea Witch, Bonhomme Richard, Wanderer, and Hartford) seem to be real collector's items nowadays.  Aurora went out of business shortly after they appeared - and to my knowledge they've never been reissued.  They seem to represent a last, desperate effort to find a product line that would solve the firm's financial problems.  Apparently they just didn't sell well enough.  Personally I never cared much for them; those injection-molded "sails," which were molded integrally with the yards and weighed so much they made it almost impossible to do the rigging properly, really turned me off.

"Passat" still exists as a museum ship at Travemunde, Germany.
So Revell has had good references for producing the model. Its a nice model,
with good detail and one can see that the tool was made in the lates 1980s or early
1990s, I dont remember when the kit appeared first.
"Passat" is a sister ship of "Pamir", (the so called "flying P liners", because most or
all of the ship names of the shipping company LAEISZ began with P), which
sunk in September 1957 in a hurricane south of the Azores in the atlantic ocean.
 

It seems that Revell Europe/Germany (Revell closed it´s factory in Great Britain
in the early 1980s, as far as I know) often issues different models than in the USA.
The Chinese Junk is a fine example. I dont have the original Aurora model, but Revell´s
Junk has typical Aurora-style, with a plastic sail, not vacu-formed. And it´s larger
than the Pyro/Lindberg Junk. I have many Revell-USA catalogs too, but never found
the Junk there, neither at Monogram. Maybe not all Aurora molds went to Monogram,
because Aurora had a "Sea witch" sailing ship in their catalog, and a "Sea witch"
is reissued by Lindberg now. Is this the same model / tool ? I didnt find this ship
from Revell. Batavia is indeed a very nice model, it was produced around 1994 first,
in cooperation with the dutch "bataviawerf", where the original ship was replicated
at that time. They are building a "De zeven Provincien" dutch warship from 17th century
at bataviawerf now, maybe Revell can be encouraged to make a model from it too ?
Other german Revell shipmodels which probably didnt find their way into the USA -catalogs
where the famous steamship "Goethe" from river rhine and the SAR ship "Hermann Marwedde".
I guess that Revell didnt expect good sales in the USA because these ships are
"exotic" items for the american market. But it proves, that Revell of Germany tries to
find new ways or to produce items which never had been produced before.
And two years ago the tanker "Esso Glasgow" (ex.J.B. Hannah) and the freighter "Hawaiian Pilot" had been reiussed, as well as the "Savannah", old tools off course, but not produced
over a long period. Luckyly at Revell Germany still real "plastic people" are leading the company,
not investors who try to make profit quickly and then resell the company.
They have a close contact to the modelers and keep watching the market steadily.
So we can hope for an interesting mix of new models and reissues for the future.

Axel Wolters

   
   

           

I have never seen the Aurora Chinese junk repackaged in the US under the Revell label, although that doesn't mean that Revell didn't do so. I have the Batavia and it is an excellent kit. The Passat is also excellent, now that I have had the chance to peruse its contents.

Fortunately, living around the US Submarine Base in Groton, CT, we have an excellent hobby shop here that caters to ship modelling. They tend to get the latest from ROG as well as the other manufacturers around the world. I count myself very lucky indeed!

Bill Morrison

Not sure about 'Passat,' but I can tell you the 'Batavia' is an excellent kit!  I think ROG worked pretty closely with the folks at Bataviawerft that built the 'Batavia' in the Netherlands (some sort of funding deal, no doubt).

Enemeink - The Airfix Endeavour is one of that company's oldest sailing ship kits; it may, in fact, have been the very first.  I don't know the date of its orginal release, but I remember building it when (I think) I was in junior high school.  It's not a bad kit - pretty basic, of course, but the overall shape seems sound, and it would certainly make a good basis for a serious scale model.  It makes an interesting shelf mate for the Revell Bounty, which is on the same scale or nearly so.  Several of the crew figures from the Airfix Endeavour are serving alongside Revell ones on board my Bounty and Hancock models.

Woxel59 - Your hobbyroom sounds like my attic - in which my wife refuses to set foot.  The truth of the matter is that there probably are enough unbuilt kits up there to keep me busy for the rest of my life.

I've expounded with enthusiasm about the Revell Viking ship in several other Forum threads.  It was originally released in 1977, remained in the catalog of Revell U.S. through 1979, and was the last genuinely new sailing ship kit released by the American branch of the company.  (The first was the 1/192 Constitution, in 1956.  Revell U.S. was in the sailing ship business for 22 years, and has now been out of it for 31.)  In my opinion it's one of the finest plastic sailing ship kits ever - maybe even the finest.  (It has nothing in common with the old Aurora kit, which really bore no resemblance to a real Viking ship.)  I don't recall seeing it in "glow-in-the-dark" form; maybe that version only was circulated in Europe.  (The excellent old Revell Golden Hind did appear over here for a while with flourescent paint, in a box labeled "Flying Dutchman.")

That material about the green sails is most interesting indeed.  The influence of corporate advertising, it seems, has no limits. 

In the U.S. it's sometimes difficult to tell which Revell kits originate with the American firm and which with the European.  Genuine hobby shops and mail order dealers frequently carry Revell Germany/Revell Europe kits; the ones from Revell U.S. show up in any store that sells models.  (In recent years the number of such stores has shrunk drastically.)  I remember seeing (to my considerable surprise) what was obviously the old Aurora Chinese junk in a Revell box a couple of times; I'm fairly certain it was from Revell Germany.  I don't recall seeing it in a Revell U.S. box, but I could be mistaken about that.

Some Revell Germany/Revell Europe kits, it seems, never make it to the U.S. in any numbers.  I never encountered the Batavia, and I don't think I've ever seen the Passat.