Queen wrecks

Dirkpitt289 wrote:

Also, in reference to another post above, the Zimmermann incident had more to do with bringing the USA immediately into the war than the sinking of Lusitania, which had occurred a couple of years earlier."

 

the zimmerman telegram was a telegram sent by the germans to mexico promising that if mexico invaded the united states that they would get their lands that we (The USA) annexed from mexico.  however Britian intercepted this message and then proceeded to release it to United states.  and if am correct around this time mexico was having political problems, ie a minor civil war.

so yeah i also know that during ww1 the british cut off the all the telegraph lines to the USA except for their own. in this way the united states would hear only one side of the story and what attrocities were being commited by the germans.

 

AJB93

My current project is the Olympic in battledress. I have plans in the works for both a before and after Britannic models.

I found the Debris just recently and have joined. It's a good site for ship building.

Thanks for your reply 

If you're interested in building some of the liners, the good folks at the Debris Field may be able to help you track down references. I am contemplating either a Britanic wreck or a 1920s Olympic from a trashed 1/400 Titanic kit.

Here's the Debris Field link: http://www.russellwild.co.uk/forumdf

I recall a passenger survive three wreck, first the titanic, then the empress and finally lusitania. He survive all three, but never took another step in the sea again.

Crackers, Can you post those picture of the andrea doria, if you can.

Thanks

This was kinda strange. I got an email that someone replied to this thread but now its gone. Here was what that person wrote.

"

searat12 wrote:

I have only seen models for two of these, the 'Titanic' and the 'Lusitania.'  By the way, I may be wrong, but I think the sistership to 'Titanic' was not the 'Britannic,' but another ship called the 'Olympic' (which I don't think came to a bad end...)

There were three ships of the Olympic class, so Britannic was also a sister of Titanic.  And there was one woman, Violet Jessop, had been a stewardess in Titanic and a nurse's aide in Britannic and survived both sinkings.

Olympic survived many years' service and was eventually scrapped.  Part of her interior salvaged and used in a hotel in the UK, if I recall correctly.

Also, in reference to another post above, the Zimmermann incident had more to do with bringing the USA immediately into the war than the sinking of Lusitania, which had occurred a couple of years earlier."

 The interesting part to me was the Violet Jessop piece. Violet was actually on all three of the Olympic class ships. She was on the Olympic when it was holed by the HMS Hawke. This resulted in two compartments being flooded and a bent prop shaft.

I believe The Olympic 1st Class dinning room was sold and is now part of the White Swan Hotel in London.

Although the Olympic didn't find the same fate as her two sisters (if you look it up) you will see she had a long history with her fair share of incidents. Its a great read if you like ships from the past.

 

regards

 

 

 

Wow, thanks Dirkpitt,

Well thats about enought for this post, but let us never forget those that lost there lives at see just like the war.

Clips of the ships

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkNUefUW_yM&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FSxqELvWPk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmSVeTs0syo

thanks fopr viewing

T-Rex

Like you I am very interested in these ships to. I admit it is almost a morbid curiosity. I mean my interest was all around the wrecks but over the years has expanded to other non-sunk ships such as the Olympic and Mauritania.

>>>>Like you I wanted to dive wrecks too. I actually took classes and was able to dive on two ships in Lake Huron but that is as far as it went. It is way too costly and I now have a family to think about. My goal in diving was simple (LOL). I wanted to dive the Doria and the U-869 off the New Jersey coast. Two very expensive and dangerous dives.

-Olympic almost got topedoe by a sub in WW1 and later crush a small vessel instantly.

>>>>I never really paid much attention to the Olympic myself. It wasn't until recently I rediscovered her and have been doing some research into her history. As it turns out the Olympic is the only merchant liner to actually have sunk a German U-boat. The U-103 was rammed by the Olympics stern section

And in 1934 the Olympic struck and sank the Nantucket Lightship killing about 7 crew members.

- Britannic was a sister ship of the titanic, and didn't serve as a cruise liner, but what's interesting is when Jaque cousteau discover the wreck he intervued some survives and they claim that it was a torpedo, but no u-boat was around the ship at the time. It is beleive that she was most likely sunk by a underwater mine, but no mine anchor has been found.

>>>>You should check out the HospitalshipBritannic website. There is a section called "The Enigma" that talks about both the myth and reality of both torpedo and the Mine. Very interesting stuff. As it turns out there is still some classified files on the Britannic.

In a 2003 diving expedition they located the remains of what is believed to be a mine barrier which supports the mine theory

-Andrea Doria didn't claim as musch people as the others but it was a bg shock that the most hight tech ship (at the time) sank. Stockholmes almost sank too, but made it for repairs.

>>>>I recently found an article about the current location and activity of the Stockholm. I will post it once I find it. She is still out there roaming the seas.

I've also recently seen photos of the Doria. Most of her superstructure has fallen off. While this is bad because it means the ship is deteriorating and will be gone before we know it. The good thing is this has opened more entrances into the ship for exploring.

For some really great photos of the Titanic and Britannic check out the TRMA website.

 

 

Regards

 

Dirk

It is amazing that any of these old grand liners are left. I was surprised and happy to hear that the Stockholm is amoung them.

The Olympia, flagship of the Greek Line in the 50's, is still sailing out of Ft. Lauderdale as the Regal Empress on 3day/2night cruises to the Bahamas. The owners and captain have really tried to keep the ship in top condition, which is not an easy task for an aging vessel. There are portions of the vessel -the main dining room & Captain's Lounge for two - that they have tried to keep as original as possible. I understand that they will have to withdraw the vessel from service in 2010 because it will be too expensive to comply with new SOLAS conditions.

I think we would all be interested ie seeing your photos of the Andrea Doria.

Regards, Jay

I'm gald to see many are interested in these ship as me, there was a moment that I wanted to be a scuba diver examining shipwreck but I'm not sure anymore.

I've made some more research on these ship on documentery and books, some are quite intersting.

-Olympic almost got topedoe by a sub in WW1 and later crush a small vessel instantly.

-Empress of Ireland was small compare to the other ships was said to have been cruse since the fog came from nowhere (weather stations said that all was clear). Even today many divers have lost there lives by te friged waters and strong current of the saint Lawerence, some die unknow.

-Lusitania may have sunk fast because of the ammo she was carring at the time of the voyage, it mit have detenated and kill most of the passengers, but the administry has denied this and blame the germans for this.

- Britanic was a sister ship of the titanic, and didn't serve as a cruise liner, but whats intersting is when Jaque cousteau discover the wreck he intervued some survives and they claim that it was a torpedo, but no u-boat was around the ship at the time. It is beleive that she was most likely sunk by a underwater mine, but no mine anchor has been found.

Althought no model kit is avaible, but look at this.

http://www.hospitalshipbritannic.com/wreck_model.htm

-Andrea Doria didn't claim as musch people as the others but it was a bg shock that the most hight tech ship (at the time) sank. Stockholmes almost sank too, but made it for repairs.

That just about all but can you post photos of the ships models

Crackers,

By all means, let us see those pictures! I'm sure there are more knowlegable people that I am to instruct you on how to scan them and get them online.

There must be a treasure trove of old photos sitting in shoe boxes all over the world. If only we could get them digitized.

I vaguely remember my grandfather taking me on the Staten Island Ferry and seeing the Stockholm coming into the harbor with her crumpled bow. I would have been six years old.

Fred

Dear T-rex:   Your posting of 4 great ocean liners and their tragic endings, is of interest to me, not from the standpoint of modeling, but as a witness to the sinking of one of the liners. 52 years ago, I was a naval reservist on a training cruise on the USS Kyne, DD 214, to St. John, New Brunswick, Canada, from the old Brooklyn Navy Yard. On our return back to New York late one early morning, I was sleeping in the crew quarters by the fantail, when I was awaken by the revedup noise of the ship's engines. I learned later that my ship had received a mayday call and was racing to the rescue.

         When I went on deck during early daylight hours, I was told that the liner Andrea Doria was listing on her starboard side, while in the distance, the Swedish liner Stockholm was anchored with a crumpled bow, her anchor run out during the collision. Nearby, the French liner, IIe de France, was standing by giving rescue assistance with her life boats, as the life boats of the Andrea Doria were tilted in such an awkward angle as to be useless. At a little after 10 am, I watched as the Andrea Doria lay on her starboard side and sink bow first, her grave marked by a floating debris field.

          Captain Calamai, of the Andria Doria never returned to sea, devastated by the loss of his ship. The Andra Doria claimed the lives of over 50 people and still is claiming life by the deaths of 14 scuba divers who have tried to explore the decaying wreck, buffeded by strong currents. The Stockholm's icebreaker bow was repaired and the ship is now owned by Portuguese interests, sailing as the Athena.

            Some where in my home, I have black and white photos taken by my brownie camera of this tragedy so long ago. If I can find these photos, I would like to share them with Forum viewers. That is, if someone can show me how to post these photos. I also have four digital photos of my unfinished model if I can be shown how to post multiple digital photographs.

             Best regardas,   Crackers

Just a couple of notes:

as far as maritime disasters go the one with the greatest loss of life involved the sinking by Russian submarine of the German liner Wilhelm Gustloff in 1945. Over 7700 hundred people were lost in the freezing northern waters, mostly refugees from the shrinking battlefront.

The great ships of the early part of the 20th century like Titanic, Brittanic, Olympic and the old Queens were not cruise ships at all, they were ocean liners built specifically to transport people across the great expanses of the world's oceans. Cruise ships are a relatively modern concept. Today's ships are not meant to criss-cross the oft times hostile Atantic but rather to ply the more pacific seas of the world on destinations to island resorts, etc. Construction and dedicated purpose were far different. Take a look at a couple of books like The Sway of The Grand Saloon or the Only Way to Cross for a view of this different world than todays. WS

Ive built the Minicraft 1/350 Titanic some years back youu need  to do some scrach building to make her acurate but a decent kit out of the box.

T-Rex

 

To my knowledge there aren't any models available of the Andrea Doria or the Empress of Ireland. The only model I found of the Lucitania was a 1/350 scale and it was going for over $100. What I did was buy 2 of the 1/700 scale Mauritania's for $12 each with the hopes of converting one to a Lucy wreck model.

 

There isn't a model of the Britannic either but with some skills, imagination and a lot of work you could transform the Titanic but it isn't going to be easy. You have to redo a lot of the stern deck and there aren't a lot of photos of the Britannic to go by.

 

I have built the Lusitania in 350th scale OOB.  Probably ten years ago. Its a beautiful model, I would suggest getting the GMM photo etched to replace the ratlines etc. I did not at the time.

Ballard's book on the wreck is a nice reference, however you build it.

Just goes to show... 'Ya live an' ya loin!'

T-Rex

I'm on a liner kick right now. I've been researching the use of liners during WWI. I'm currently working on the RMS Olympic in dazzle. Olympic is the 1st of three sister ships. Olympic, Titanic and Britannic. My plans are then to do do the Britannic in her Hospital  scheme and then the Mauritania in her Diamond Dazzle pattern.

As I'm finding out these liners take a lot of time and work. If you are interested in the wreck of the Titanic check this out.

 http://www.titanic-model.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=123&topic_id=1047&mesg_id=1047&page=

 

Regards

Dirk

 

searat12 wrote:

I have only seen models for two of these, the 'Titanic' and the 'Lusitania.'  By the way, I may be wrong, but I think the sistership to 'Titanic' was not the 'Britannic,' but another ship called the 'Olympic' (which I don't think came to a bad end...)

there were three, the Olympic, Titanic and Britanic. the Britanic NEVER carried a paying passenger, she was converted to a hospital ship before she ever sailed as a cruise ship.

Actually one of the staff on that went down on the Titanic {in one of the life boats} ALSO survived the sinking of the Britanic, which I do believe went down faster than the Titanic.

The Olympic went on to stay inservice either as a cruise ship, or troop transport until 1935 

Oh, sorry, I thought I heard that somewhere, well the Brittannic was huge, and the company was also white star line, but went the war broke out she was outfited to be a hospital ship.

I have only seen models for two of these, the 'Titanic' and the 'Lusitania.'  By the way, I may be wrong, but I think the sistership to 'Titanic' was not the 'Britannic,' but another ship called the 'Olympic' (which I don't think came to a bad end...)

Looks good, but has anyone on this forum done a model of these ships? still in one piece.

While browsing the armor forum a while ago I clicked on corvettemike's site link in his sig...

http://public.fotki.com/corvettemike/miscellaneous_builds/titanic-1/

pretty awesome idea he had there, and it looks really good too!