Hasegawa Nagato CAD line fix?

Youn Could ssand them down a bit and use some evergreen stock that could replicate weld seems and apply it with proweld or teenex7r just lay the stock or streched sprue acrossed the  seam use tape on eiather  end and apply the liquid cement. hope that helps. or maybe someone else has a better idea.

Well, the BIG problem is that a lot of the CAD lines go over some complicated 'terrain,' so I'm not sure how well that trick might work.  Again, these CAD lines have nothing to do with any plate lines, and exchanging these divots for 'weld lines' would not be an improvement (they need to disappear!).

can you post a picture of the CAD lines? I first heard about them here and don't actually know what they are.

bertman wrote:

can you post a picture of the CAD lines? I first heard about them here and don't actually know what they are.

Right!  Here are several photos of the CAD lines problem with Nagato.  This first photo shows most graphically the problem (click on the photo of the boarding companionway), and the other two are additional views.

http://www.aeroscale.co.uk/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=3174

http://www.aeroscale.co.uk/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=3734

http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/internethobbies/has40024flarge.jpg

Here is a video of the real Nagato for comparison:  http://technorati.com/videos/youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DNFQhoMlpwP4

A schematic drawing: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/japan/nagato-bb-schem.htm

and a few more photos at:  http://www.seawolfproductions.com/Shipwreck%20Museum/Bikini%20Wrecks/Nagato/himjs_nagatoweb.htm

And here is an example of a CAD program in use for lofting a ship:   http://www.worldwideflood.com/CAD/start.htm

 

Note, in NONE of the many book photos I have of Nagato (and Mutsu as well), many of them from very close range, do any of these CAD lines show up as 'plate lines,' and in fact have no relationship to any of the actual steel plates on the real ship. For those of you that have also bought the 1/350 Fujimi 'Kongo,' a ship built of similar technology, you need only glance at the hull molds in comparison to see the problem (and you can look at the Trumpeter 'Hood,' etc, etc, etc.). 

 

Wow... why would they let that go past the initial testing phase? At first I thought Japanese ships must of had some extra little defensive measure on their sides (kinda like the zimmerment on german tanks) but now I see that it's just horrible iso lines from the CAD program like you were saying. That's really weird. They would have had to purposefully put those in.

I'm reminded of a trick I picked up years ago from the aircraft modellers for filling seams: try filling the offending lines with gap-filling super glue, hit it with a bit of accelerator, and as soon as it's set, gently wipe the line with a soft cotton cloth saturated with debonder. Don't wipe too hard or you'll start to remove the super flue from within the line.

Cheers,

John Snyder, White Ensign Models, http://WhiteEnsignModels.com 

That might work..... or you could just end up with a bunch of superglue smeared all over the model!  I might give it a try on an inconspicuous spot on the bottom somewhere.... Remember, this is a very expensive model!  Any other ideas?

heres another idea try useing mr surfacer apply it to the divots useing a brush.

If the lines are really deep you could buy some styrene strips (I've got a couple different sizes <1mm square) and lay them in the lines so you don't use up all your Mr. Surfacer or glue--that's a large ship :P

Basically, all of what i am hearing is going to involve a lot of filling and sanding, as regardless of whether you use mr. surfacer, or styrene strips and mr. surfacer, or gap-filling superglue, an unsightly area will result that must be sanded smooth after all is dry, yes? 

sounds like you are just afraid to do anything, j/k :P

Yes, at some point you'll have to do some sanding. But, if you do it carefully you won't have to do much. Both Mr. Surfacer and Styrene sand easier than the model plastic so you can go gently and protect any other details. And, if you do sand off some details you can sharpen up your detailing techniques and add them back in!

Don't gob the glue on and you'll be fine, trust me :D

Also, you'll be painting over all this so even if the mix of colors from mr. surfacer/glue/styrene bothers you, it'll all be under a few layers of paint eventually.

I'm filling mine with finely rolled strips of Squadron Green putty, gently wiping smooth, then sanding gently with fine grit. I am working slowly and only on small sections at a time. So far, it is working. However, it is quite tedious.

Bill Morrison

they also repeated the error with the Mutsu:

http://www.modelshipwrights.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=3965

The only solution i have seen used in a WIP is Mr Surfacer followed by sanding. Incredibly, most WIPs and builds I have seen simply ignore the lines....

I will probably use Mr Surfacer and techniqes used by the aircraft people in re-scribing raised panel lines around the fuselage. I have few a/c kits to practice re-scribing before I tackle the Nagato in a couple years.Will probably add several months to the build/project. There is a nice WIP on a waterline Nagato (imagine putting a SAW to that hull!) over in MSW.

<EDIT> Bill, I saw your reply as I was posting mine... really like your idea, will give it a try also..do you wipe the G putty with acetone-containing nailpolish first? Then let dry for a day at least? And fine grit... we talking Squadron stick "Fine", or 1000g, 2000g? Thanks for the info, looking forward to some pics down the road!

I mean, we are bashing Hasegawa and the CAD lines with a reason,, but the ship is GORGEOUS otherwise...

Oh, I agree, the model would be outstanding if it wasn't for these blasted CAD lines!  They are deep, they are wide, and they are awful!   I like the sound of the green putty trick, I will order some and try it out on the bottom..... What amazes me is that Hasegawa didn't at least fix the problem for 'Mutsu!'

I am using 1000 grit. It seems to be working fine.  As for technique, I am simply roling a very small piece if putty between my fingers until I get a string, then I lay it into one of the lines, pressing it into place. I then wipe it smooth with a small piece of rag. I repeat the process over a small area (Maybe 3-4 inches of hull, then sand it smooth the next day. I then seal the putty with a drop of brushed on ZAP using micro brushes. Again, it is a tedious process but it is working.  Good luck!

 Bill Morrison

Bill, thank you so much for your information... copy/pasted and stored for future reference! I am still quite aways from tackling the Nagato, but have been looking for CAD fixes for a bit, yours makes a lot of sense, thanks again for posting!

JMart,

It's my pleasure! The process is painstaking and slow, but I am getting good results. I forgot to mention that I also have to lightly sand the ZAP after it dries.

Bill Morrison

After the putty is smooth, couldn't you simply sand with 1000g and then paint (I am going to use spray enamel as a base coat)?

I am sure that you can. I simply have a feeling that the ZAP sealer "blends in" the work. It is simply a personal touch. Additionally, it fills in any areas of the putty that may have cracked or pitted.

Bill Morrison

 I have that kit and thought  those lines have to belong. I mean a state of the art kit that cost that much $$$? What a disappointment to find out that they are a whopper of a mistake. My guess is the only way to fix them is to sand them off where you can and fill the spots where you can't and recoat the whole monster with Mr Surfacer spray. Talking a lot of work that shouldn't be there on such an expensive kit. Reminds me a little of the old lindberg steel plating except the lindberg lines are raised and easier fixed, That's probably why I haven't seen a Nagato in the forum.

The lines are really too deep for sanding, so only filling in some manner will do the trick...and it will be sloooooow..... Ithink this is probably the biggest mistake by any current manufacturer in a long time.  And this ain't some 1/72 airplane kit for 10 or 12 bucks neither!

Perhaps we should all petition Hasegawa to not only recast the hull molds but to replace our hulls with the recast version!

Bill Morrison

warshipguy wrote:

Perhaps we should all petition Hasegawa to not only recast the hull molds but to replace our hulls with the recast version! Bill Morrison

That really sounds reasonable considering the cost of the kit. I mean everything else is top notch. Looks like they would want to fix the issue. What were they thinking? That it looked cool?

sfcmac, that is what happens when you outsource your work & have no control of the quality control.

warshipguy wrote:

Perhaps we should all petition Hasegawa to not only recast the hull molds but to replace our hulls with the recast version! Bill Morrison

Will never happen... that mold is the most expensive one to produce, no way the re-cast a full hull mold. And we already have the answer, as the newly announced 1:350 Mutsu has the same CAD lines error (they used the same mold of course).

My comment was meant as a tongue-in-cheek comment. However, I never say that nothing can happen.  For example, I began lobbying Airfix to release new sailing ships and posted my attempts on this forum. As a result of mine and many others doing the same, Airfix has announced that they were planning new sailing ships within two years. It's a small step, but it seems to be working.  I will continue to send letters until I actually see progress.

Hasegawa is a business that must satisfy its customer base to remain in business. If enough of us cry "FOUL" loud enough and long enough, it can work. History is replete with examples.

Viva! rabble-rousers!

Bill Morrison

Hi Bill,Yes,I know your comment was tongue in cheek :) I was just bumming a bit since reading the Mutsu is also "CAD-ed". I am a slow builder, a 350 scale would take me a year (on and off), those CAD lines probably added 4 - 6 months to the build.

I WILL take up your idea of dropping Hasegawa a note; they should know that I will be spending my "350 mulah" with someone else, such as with Fuj Kongo or one of Trumpeter's recent offerings and a slew of other 350 choices we are being flooded with (not a complaint! I just wish I had more time, more space, more money :)

Thanks for giving me some "back wind" to get me to send Has a note...cheers!

 

 

What really makes me mad is that I had originally thought they were simply attempting to create hull plate lines. Boy, do I feel stupid!

Bill Morrison

 It just seems a real shame. Hasagawa has done wonders with aircraft and 1/700 scale ships. I would think that pride in their companys work would have driven them to fix it. Cost and profit are important but the Asian business man as far as I know them are driven by a desire for perfection and while some minor faults in a kit can be overlooked such a major mistake in what is supposed to be a  quality scale representation given the current competition is not smart business. Releasing a second mistake in the sister ship just makes it sadder still. I felt the same way about the Academy M3 Lee then the Grant and that is just dealing with a suspension that is a little too tall. The Fujimi Kongo and the Aoshima 1/350 Cruisers are far superior products. I guess what I am saying is if they are proud enough to charge close to $200 for a kit  with the main selling point being modern technical detail then they owe us a fix when it isn't. I was looking forward to the release of the 1/350 Akagi but will not pay the price for the kit if it isn't right. If the Nagato cost 50 or 60 dollars I Would be more forgiving hence no pre order for any Hasegawa stuff until I get the low down on it. I really felt that they let us down there. Hopefully the Trumpeter Repulse comes out soon as I doubt I ever touch the Nagato. .... Boy was I venting?