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Paper-Card Sailing Ship Model Kits

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  • Member since
    May 2008
  • From: UK
Posted by Billyboy on Tuesday, July 8, 2008 2:02 PM

if anyone is with child to make a card ship model, these two links offer free downloads a bit better quality than most freeby paper models (indeed,they are both by professional kit designers)

 

http://www.papershipwright.co.uk/download.shtml

http://www.sjofartsmuseum.goteborg.se/prod/kultur/sjofartsmuseet/dalis2.nsf/535e371e7fd657aec1256a5c0045675f/fae6117a853034f6c1257076004993bd!OpenDocument

 

enjoy,

 

Will 

  • Member since
    November 2006
Posted by Papillon on Monday, July 7, 2008 7:37 PM

Mr. Tilley,

 

I greatly admire your immense patience of explaining the same story over & over again, namely the explanation of the term HECEPOB!!! I read this forum for several years now and each time I see you posting long elaborate explanations to newbies on this forum; I appreciate your effort. If I were in your place I rather would copy & paste the same standard text each time!! :-)

 

Addition: back in 1975 I had a correspondence with Corel and after a while they asked whether I could suggest a name for a small 17th century Dutch ship they wanted to publish as a kit; I went to an archive, digged up a few names and their choice was Dolphyn, it still is in production! They sent me the kit as a gift but I sold it later.

 

Papillon. 

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Friday, July 4, 2008 2:29 PM

jtilley,

Thank you for your comments.  I agree with many of your observations concerning the HECEPOB companies, especially the lower-cost items.  But, I have noticed quite a few that seem to be real scale models, the BELLONA, the ROYAL WILLIAM, and the SAN JUAN NEPOMUCENO among them.  In fact, if you were to do a Google search or Yahoo search on the SJN, you would find an excellent pictorial by an independent builder depicting the strengths, weaknesses, and pitfalls of building that kit.  Also, I was aware that Amati was producing the Victory Line with the HMS VANGUARD, but I was not aware that the kit was available yet. It looks fabulous!

I am an enthusiast of primarily of ships-of-the-line, frigates, sloops-of-war, and brigs-of-war. Unfortunately, the plastic manufacturers don't do enough in this area (as we've discussed elsewhere). In fact, VANGUARD is one of the kits I recommended to Airfix.  As a result, I am forced to look towards other modelling mediums, including the HECEPOB's.  I stumbled upon the paper-card models quite by accident, hence, this thread.

Anyway, I really do appreciate your observations and your comments! Please enjoy your Fourth of July!

Bill Morrison

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Friday, July 4, 2008 2:11 PM

The only grounds I have for evaluating the Corel Bellona are the photos on the Model Expo website, and it obviously wouldn't be fair or reasonable for me to attempt a serious evaluation of the kit on that basis.  The illustrations of finished models built from wood kits, by nature, reflect the skills and knowledge of the people who built them.  As we all know, a good modeler can make a nice model from a mediocre kit - and a lousy modeler can make a lousy model out of a good kit.  That's even more true of wood kits than of plastic ones.

That said, the model in the photos certainly does look better than some of the others (the Corel H.M.S. Unicorn, for instance, which is a sorry joke).  As I said in my last post, Corel kits in general don't have a good reputation - even among the HECEPOB brigade. (HECEPOB, for the benefit of the uniniated, is a term I am proud to have coined myself;  it's an acronym for Hideously Expensive Continental European Plank-On-Bulkhead.  A forum search on the word HECEPOB will produce all sorts of disgustingly lengthy rants about the subject, from others as well as myself.)  One correspondent on another website, who generally was rather defensive of HECEPOB kits, aknowledged that "Corel tends to be lazy with its research."  On the basis of what I've seen, that's an understatement.  (These are the people who claim Frederick af Chapman designed a British frigate twenty years before he was born.  It's also worth noting that the Wasa Museum, in Stockholm, has given its endorsement to two Wasa kits:  the ones from Billing and Airfix.  The Corel Wasa is conspicuous by its absence.)  Corel kits, like those from the other HECEPOB companies, generally are characterized by lousy plans, hopelessly uninformative instructions, mediocre materials, irrational construction methods, and shoddy fittings that get recycled from kit to kit, regardless of accuracy. 

Those companies are fond of boasting about their "double planking" system.  It is, in fact, a means of compensating for bad design; it has nothing to do with how real ships are built.  The walnut that they use for the outer layer of planking is not a species many serious ship modelers would pick for that purpose.  Walnut is extremely stiff and brittle, and its grain is pretty coarse.  (I should note, in fairness, that some European varieties of walnut seem to be of considerably finer grain that what one finds in American woodworking shops and lumber yards.  I've seen some European walnut deadeyes, for example, that are quite nice.)

I can see a few things I don't like in those photos.  The windows in the quartergalleries don't look right; they may be made of photo-etched metal, and haven't assumed the subtle curvature they should.  (It's interesting that the photo doesn't show the transom, which would be the real test of whatever means the company used to replicate the "carved" ornamentation.)  I'm not sure why the skylight on the poop is bright blue; it seems to be made of a solid material of some sort and painted.  And the stern lanterns appear to have pink-tinted glass in them.  (That sort of thing appears to be common in the world of the HECEPOBs.  Why on earth would anybody put pink glass in a lantern on board a ship?)  It's hard to tell on a monitor as small as mine, but it looks like the decks aren't cambered.  And the flags don't look right.   

On the other hand, this particular model looks a lot better than some.  The person who rigged it apparently understood rigging.  (To begin with, he got the yards in the right places.  Lots of the people who build the models for those ads don't understand that a yard gets lowered when the sail is furled.)  The figurehead looks reasonable - not up to Heller, Revell, or Airfix standards, but not bad.  I wish I could see the guns more clearly; that's a department where the HECEPOB firms frequently screw up.  The photo of the quarterdeck shows a carronade with what appears to be a slightly questionable carriage, but I can't make out any of the long guns with any clarity.  In the typical HECEPB kit the gun barrels are generic parts used in many kits on many scales, and the ones on the lower decks are "dummies." 

The basis for a serious scale model may well be here.  All the aforementioned problems obviously could, given enough time, knowledge, and effort, be fixed.  On the basis of those photos and the accompanying description I have no inclination to buy it - especially for $440.   

ModelExpo apparently has quit stocking Euromodels and Artesania Latina kits.  Quite a few years ago I was sent a couple of AL kits to review; on the basis of those two I would never buy one.  (To be fair, that was a long time ago and I've seen some hints that the company's products have gotten somewhat better lately.  On the other hand, I've also read, on other websites, quite a few complaints of unusable, damaged, or missing parts in AL kits, and the firm's reputation for customer service seems to be pretty bad.  I think that's why ModelExpo dropped the line.)

I did find a photo of the Euromodel Royal William on line:  https://sslrelay.com/www.euromodels.co.uk/sess/utn;jsessionid=15486e6ff085e35/shopdata/index.shopscript

Again, the picture makes it look pretty good.  A friend of mine bought a Euromodel kit a few years ago (at least I think it was a Euromodel); it was pretty awful.  He eventually threw out all the "carved" decorations and most of the other fittings. 

Again, that isn't a fair way to evaluate another kit by the same manufacturer.  But there's no way I'd buy such a thing without taking a really thorough look inside the box first. 

Another HECEPOB company, Amati, apparently has seen The Light and discovered what a scale ship model is.  (The evidence suggests that many of the people running HECEPOB companies don't know.)  Amati has started a range called "Victory Models" that concentrates on English/British sailing warships.  They're designed by a gentleman named Chris Watton who used to work for Calder/Jotika, the excellent British firm.  The latest Victory Models kit is a Brtish 74, with parts included to build either the Vanguard, the Bellerophon, or the Elephant:   http://onlinehobbysite.com/shop/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=152

The price is pretty staggering - close to $1,000 U.S., including shipping - but if I were in the market for such a kit that's the one I'd aspire to buy.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Friday, July 4, 2008 11:52 AM

I have checked out Zealot.com and I am very impressed by what I saw.  Check out the thread on HMS Bellona! It's beautiful!  But, I was looking at the Corel plank-on-bulkhead wood kit of the Bellona. I cannot help but compare structural integrity of the wood kit vs the paper kit.  I am also wondering about the techniques involved in the finer details of modeling such as filling seams, repairing breaks, etc.  How does one go about these things with a paper model?

By the way, jtilley, look at the Corel HMS Bellona; it seems well detailed to me.  I would be interested in your comments about that kit, as well as the Euromodel HMS Royal William and the Artesania Latina San Juan Nepomuceno.  Thanks!

Bill Morrison

  • Member since
    September 2006
  • From: Lewiston ID
Posted by reklein on Friday, July 4, 2008 10:45 AM
checkout the cardmodeling sections over on hobby Zealot. Outstanding!!
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Thursday, July 3, 2008 10:12 PM

Shipyard paper models have come up on one of the other web forums.  I believe the company is located in Poland, and its products - though I've never encountered any of them in the flesh - appear to be spectacular.  Somebody on the Model Ship World site posted a series of in-progress photos of the Shipyard H.M.S. Victory.  It was almost literally unbelievable that such a thing could be made of paper.

As I recall, the company also sells some wood and metal parts (gun barrels, spars, etc.) to fit its paper kits.  These are definitely serious scale models.

By the way - the same can't be said for Corel.  Even among ardent HECEPOB enthusiasts, that company has a rotten reputation in terms of accuracy.  The usual caveats apply:  I haven't seen every kit Corel makes, and I'm sure there's some variation among them. But the ones I have seen have left me with no interest in looking at any more.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    March 2007
  • From: Carmel, CA
Posted by bondoman on Thursday, July 3, 2008 3:40 PM

I'm not as big a blatherer as I fear I appear to be, it's just that I've modeled pretty much for the last 50+ years.

I built a couple of paper ships some years ago and it was a joy. One was either the same as or very similar to the buoy tender. The other was a tanker I never finished.

If you zoom in on the pictures on that site you can see that they are certainly less detailed than what can be achieved with PE etc. but oh my the subjects!

The hulls, at least my two, build up in eggcrate fashion. They look fabulous because the weathering, wood, metal finishes etc. are all preprinted, really no paint required. Just straight edge, cutting mat, scissors, xacto and glue. Although separated by more than 20 years, when I think about it, the smallest parts then built up very similar to how little PE bits do now.

  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Spartanburg, SC
Posted by subfixer on Thursday, July 3, 2008 3:21 PM

The Bismark is simply amazing at that site. Check it out.

Click on the picture for closing the window.

I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Thursday, July 3, 2008 12:08 PM

sumpter250,

Thanks for that lead. I just checked them out.  It seems that the building process is very similar to that of wooden plank-on-bulkhead kits.  But, whereas you can sand wood to smooth over seams, I am not sure how one goes about filling seams on paper-card models, or making the paper parts appear to be wood.

Bill Morrison

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: vernon hills illinois
Posted by sumpter250 on Thursday, July 3, 2008 11:10 AM
While I'm not into card modeling, I have seen a number of completed card kits, and they are very nice models. www.zealot.com is a hobby board for Model Railroads, RC models, and Card models. You might find construction techniques, and generic card model information there.

Lead me not into temptation ..................I can find it myself

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Paper-Card Sailing Ship Model Kits
Posted by warshipguy on Thursday, July 3, 2008 11:04 AM

I was searching the web yesterday for pictures of the completed Corel kit of HMS Bellona when I tripped across a picture of a paper-card model of the Bellona by Shipyard Models in 1/96 scale. The picture looks like the kit is well-detailed.  Then, I followed its web site (www.moduni.com) and found three pages of equally nice looking pictures of completed paper-card models of sailing ships, including the British Frigate HMS Cleopatra of 1779 in 1/96 scale. Again, the picture looks marvelous!  Unlike many of the modern warship paper-card models I have seen advertised, these kits are full-hull models.

Does anyone know anything about these kits?  Do they build well?  Are they durable?  Are they really as detailed as they look? etc., etc., etc.

Bill Morrison

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