SEARCH FINESCALE.COM

Enter keywords or a search phrase below:

A few stupid questions.

1018 views
10 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    March 2005
  • From: West Virginia, USA
Posted by mfsob on Thursday, July 10, 2008 4:54 PM

Oh, yeah, I spend ALL my time carving binnacles and telegraphs and gyro repeaters out of plastic for my 1/700 ship bridges.

*cough* Kidding. In that scale, I have taken to using photoetch ladders and gloss or semigloss black paint. Find a PE ladder that has about the same spacing between the rungs as your bridge windows, scrape off the plastic window framing, paint that area black and thencut the ladder sections to fit after painting them the superstructure color. In that scale, it works for me.

  • Member since
    March 2008
Posted by Wildcat on Thursday, July 10, 2008 7:19 AM

I saw a picture taken in WW II on a battleship  looking up to the bridge and the windows looked "green" and made me think of sunglasses at the time.

Would I be off by painting the windows black with a "green tint" showing, I mean kind of a gloss black green window?

One thing for sure I don't have the skills to build any bridge equ inside so that's out.

  • Member since
    May 2005
Posted by Ron Smith on Thursday, July 10, 2008 4:01 AM

 jtilley wrote:
Someday in the fairly near future I hope to tackle the beautiful new Dragon Gleaves-class destroyer in 1/350.  It has small, round pilothouse ports, which are represented by countersunk circles less than 1/32" in diameter.  I haven't made up my mind yet; my inclination is to drill them out and fill them with something like Micro Crystal-Clear, but I reserve the right to change my mind and paint them gloss black.  (I certainly think making windows shiny is generally a good idea.)  I can say with certainty, however, that I am not going to put the bridge equipment inside.

You could just paint them the color of the superstructure, apply a drop of Future to the circle and be perfectly accurate for portholes with the interior metal plate closed and dogged. Actually a drop of Tamiya smoke will make them pop out a little and look better as they almost always look dark in photos.

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Thursday, July 10, 2008 1:07 AM

The question regarding windows (to make them transparent or not transparent - that is the question) is an interesting one that, I think, deserves some thought.  My own opinion is that, as in so many other cases, words like "always" and "never" are inappropriate, and that the "best" solution varies case by case.

I tend to come at such things from the perspective of a sailing ship model enthusiast.  People like me tend to work in considerably larger scales than 1/350, but some, at least, of the principles we think about are just as applicable to smaller scales.

Sailing ship modelers have been taking it pretty much for granted for at least a couple of centuries that a good model has glass (or clear plastic) in its windows.  Nothing else looks as good.  Once in a while somebody uses a cystoscope or x-ray machine to examine the interior of an old "Admiralty model" and finds some fascinating stuff inside it - stuff that, in many cases, doesn't show through the windows. 

I recall a restoration job on a model at the maritime museum where I used to work.  The model was of the late-nineteenth-century passenger liner Britannic; it was on 1/48 scale, and measured about fifteen feet long.  I happened to catch sight of something in one of the portholes, which were made of glass.  I started polishing them, and shined a flashlight through them.  I discovered that the entire first-class dining room was fitted out - complete with tables, a piano, and a set of wineglasses stowed upside down on the overhead.  In all honesty, though, I think the other staff members and I were the first people in at least fifty years to see all that detail - and, though I wrote something in the label urging the public to look through the portholes, with the model sitting in its big glass case it's almost impossible to see it all now.

I certainly agree that, if the layout of the windows is such that they let light come through the model in a way that's noticeably unrealistic (i.e., like seeing through a house), something ought to be done about that.  I'm inclined to think, though, that putting some sort of partition in the interior to interrupt the light is generally preferable to making the windows themselves opaque.

Here's a picture of my model of the Continental frigate Hancock (which regular Forum participants, I'm sure, are sick of looking at by now): http://www.hmsvictoryscalemodels.be/JohnTilleyHancock/photos/photo9.html .

The scale is 3/32"=1'; the transom is about 3" wide.  The windows are made of clear plastic, and I contend that the model would look hoaky if they weren't.  In this particular case, though, after taking a careful look at the layout of the windows and the rest of the hull, I concluded that putting any detail inside the windows would be a waste of time.  Anybody who takes the model out of its case (bad idea) and shines a flashlight through the transom windows may, barely, be able to make out a small sign on a post in the middle of the captain's cabin that reads "Sorry, no interior detail."  So far as I know, though, nobody but me has seen it yet.

I also remember looking admiringly at a superb, 1/48-scale destroyer that got brought to one of our club meetings years ago.  It was one of the most meticulously detailed models I've ever seen - down to and including the corrugations on the trash cans in the racks on the fantail.  But to my eye the illusion was spoiled, to some (not very big) extent, by the fact that the portholes in the pilothouse were represented by circles of gloss black paint.  To me, that approach looked jarringly inconsistent.  Suppose, though, that the builder of that model had made the windows out of clear plastic, and had included all the bridge equipment inside - the wheel, engine room telegraph, compass, etc.  If I'd craned my neck around to just the right angle, and the light had been shining just right, would I have been able to see them?  Maybe, but I doubt it.  If the destroyer, rather than a round-bridge Fletcher-class ship, had been a Mahan-class one with larger, rectangular windows, would I have been able to see the equipment inside?  Probably so.

In 1/700 scale those black bridge windows probably wouldn't have bothered me in the least.  In 1/350 - I don't know.  Reviews of aircraft kits often comment that the manufacturers have wasted effort on interior details that are, to all intents and purposes, invisible through the canopies and windows - especially in small scales.  Some companies make the windows of 1/144-scale airliners out of clear plastic, and others represent them with black decals.  But scarcely any such kits have seats, overhead bins, movie screens, etc. The windows, even if they're transparent, simply are too small to justify such treatment.

Someday in the fairly near future I hope to tackle the beautiful new Dragon Gleaves-class destroyer in 1/350.  It has small, round pilothouse ports, which are represented by countersunk circles less than 1/32" in diameter.  I haven't made up my mind yet; my inclination is to drill them out and fill them with something like Micro Crystal-Clear, but I reserve the right to change my mind and paint them gloss black.  (I certainly think making windows shiny is generally a good idea.)  I can say with certainty, however, that I am not going to put the bridge equipment inside.

At least one of the manufacturers, Aoshima, has started advertising that some of its 1/700 and 1/350 kits have "clear bridges."  I haven't bought any of those particular kits, so I can't comment from first-hand experience, but I'm inclined to think the idea is sound.  It certainly makes as much sense as the current trend of molding 1/700 aircraft and ships' boats in clear plastic, so they can have clear canopies when they're finished.  How does one explain the fact that the windows in the island of a carrier are solid black, while the canopies of the Helldiver sitting on the flight deck half an inch away are transparent?  (That's the sort of thing my wife would notice.) 

I don't pretend to have a universal answer to this question; I don't think there is one.  I do suggest that the question is worth serious, case-by-case consideration.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Spartanburg, SC
Posted by subfixer on Wednesday, July 9, 2008 7:01 AM
I usually use an ultra-fine black Sharpie pen for windows and portholes. The finish is a fairly authentic gloss.

I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: Mansfield, TX
Posted by EdGrune on Wednesday, July 9, 2008 6:21 AM
 Wildcat wrote:

Where do you all get that wood base I see a lot of ship models on? Do you make it yourself or where can I find one? I can finish the wood but have no wood working tools to build one.

I have tools, so I make my own.

You have several options for wooden bases.   1) You can get a pine placque from some of the craft stores (Michaels, Hobby Lobby, Moore, etc.) and stain & finish it yourself.    2)  Check the local trophy shop and see what they have in the way of placque bases which may be re-purposed.  3)  There are several commercial ship model supply houses (Model Expo,  Blue Jacket, etc.) which sell finished bases.   4)  There are several display case companies which will sell bases along with their dust covers.  5)  Make friends with someone who has wood working tools.  Buy the wood at Lowes/HomeDepot and have him teach you how to route edges. 6)  Spring for a few wood tools and start your own shop.

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: EG48
Posted by Tracy White on Wednesday, July 9, 2008 2:12 AM

 bondoman wrote:
Ships, never. Boats, maybe.

Not entirely true. In cases such as the earlier WWII ships, larger windows on the bridge were the norm and these were narrow enough that it wouldn't be wrong to make them see-through in 1/350th scale. Just, if you do, it'll look better if you replicate some of the bridge equipment as well!

Tracy White Researcher@Large

  • Member since
    March 2007
  • From: Carmel, CA
Posted by bondoman on Tuesday, July 8, 2008 11:42 PM

Per windows. They should never be see through in a scale model unless that same effect was a part of the original subject.

I build "building" models both profess'nly and for my N scale railroad. Ever see thru a house?

Aircraft in large scales, ok. Railroad passenger cars, yes.

Ships, never. Boats, maybe.

The tank fellas are using wonderful materials for the prism sights and non reflective periscopes, dicroics, all kinds of chips in silicon.

To the extent that it occurs in modern warships, wonderful.

  • Member since
    March 2008
Posted by Wildcat on Tuesday, July 8, 2008 10:42 PM

Thanks!!

A couple more questions.

What about the windows on the upper superstructure of a battle ship in 1/350 scale? Do you paint them or what?

Where do you all get that wood base I see a lot of ship models on? Do you make it yourself or where can I find one? I can finish the wood but have no wood working tools to build one.

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: Mansfield, TX
Posted by EdGrune on Tuesday, July 8, 2008 8:10 AM

During WWII,  liferings and life rafts were painted to match the surrounding camouflage.

Floater net baskets contained float nets.   These were strings of rubber or cork floats with lengths of netting.  They floated free of a sinking ship and gave survivors something to hold onto and keep thn from floating away.  Of course they were more useable in the temperate waters of the South Pacific than the frigid wayers of the North Atlantic as they did not get the crew up out of the water like a boat or raft might.    I have simulated them with lengths of electronic wire-wrap wire.  Slice the insulation into rings and spread them out along the wire.  Fold into shape and paint brown after installing.

  • Member since
    March 2008
A few stupid questions.
Posted by Wildcat on Tuesday, July 8, 2008 7:02 AM

What was the color of life rings used on USN ships in WW II? I know today they are orange but I can remember as a child when my family visted a couple WW II ships I thought they were white with red markings.

Another question is the US Navy WW II floater net baskets. What was stored in them and do you all place anything in them in your models or leave empty? I think the USS Missouri has several of the baskets but the instrutions do not say what they are.

 

Thanks!!

JOIN OUR COMMUNITY!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

SEARCH FORUMS
FREE NEWSLETTER
By signing up you may also receive reader surveys and occasional special offers. We do not sell, rent or trade our email lists. View our Privacy Policy.