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LM attempt 2 WIP

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  • Member since
    July 2007
  • From: Ontario, Canada
Posted by mallagoodee on Thursday, October 9, 2008 11:45 AM
Thanx Mike. I've had the paint flake off the aluminum foil too, but only if I've brushed it on, with a paintbrush. When I've airbrushed it on, it'll stay put even when I burnish the foil down onto an irregular surface. I know it works with enamel, I don't think I've tried it with acrylics.

Pete
  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: Virginia
Posted by Mike F6F on Monday, October 6, 2008 4:57 PM
Thanks, Pete, Buck and JB.

Pete, the black foil, on the Ascent Stage "face", is just household foil painted flat black. Same as the descent stage foil. I paint the dull side. It will flake off under stress, but is easy enough to touch-up once its in place.

Another piece that New Ware could create besides the RPG is the nav scope outlet on top of the coffin. Its hard to find a good photo of that area. (Maybe that's why they haven't made the part!)

The LM is one heck of a machine. You can always learn something new about it.

Mike

Mike

 

"Grumman on a Navy Airplane is like Sterling on Silver."

  • Member since
    July 2007
Posted by JButler on Monday, October 6, 2008 3:19 PM

Great job!  Very realistic.

 

JB

  • Member since
    July 2007
  • From: Ontario, Canada
Posted by mallagoodee on Monday, October 6, 2008 6:30 AM
Nicely done Mike! Those New Ware bits really set it off, eh? And your Photoshop work on that last photo looks great!

What did you use for the Black foil on the Ascent Stage 'face"? And the scratchbuilt RTG looks good too. I wish New Ware would've included that little, fiddly piece too.

It looks like you've got a winner there, Mike! Way to go!

Pete
  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: Virginia
Posted by Mike F6F on Sunday, October 5, 2008 6:36 PM
It is Done.

I had a near emergency as the tube mounting the model to the case separated from inside the engine bell.

This, of course, happened after I'd completed all the antenna mounts and the surface probes. After some serious juggling of the model and some tools, a repair was made.

Here's some final shots:

























I need to order the patches, etc. The New Ware detail set and the Sternbach decals make a big difference.

I'm going to build something more "conventional" next. I am planning a LM 4 "Snoopy" as a project, for later.


Mike




Mike

 

"Grumman on a Navy Airplane is like Sterling on Silver."

  • Member since
    February 2007
  • From: New York
Posted by Astronaut Buck on Wednesday, October 1, 2008 7:22 PM

I know I am getting into this late but wanted to comment on the beige.  I have worked with the LM and have built multiple models from plastic and scratch built at various scales.  The upper stage is black and dull silver (aluminum) colored.  This is a result of the aluminum substructure and skin with black micrometeriod covering.  This was done for several reasons: one is heat dissapation.  Also remember, the LM skin is so thin, an astronaut could put a  boot through it.  The mylar on the descent stage is gold.  A nice deep gold but not copper colored.  You can probably find samples on eBay but it doesn't translate well into smaller scales.  Super shiny though.  If you go to NASA.gov, you can go to the archives area and see detailed photos of the LM in construction as well as in packing and flight.

You are correct about the model.  For some reason, the LM is one that I keep building and enjoying.  When you get to the Block 2 version, it provides an entirely new opportunity to lose your mind on detail ; )  Great machine. Great models!

 Yours looks great!!

 

 

  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: Virginia
Posted by Mike F6F on Tuesday, September 16, 2008 6:38 PM
Thanks Pete.

I've done several 1/700 ships, so I'm used to small pieces. Sometimes though, you do have to stop and come back to them later.

Yeah, the New Ware thruster nozzles are a real highlight. The will most likely be the last parts I mount. I've got the rest of the strips between the foil to do. Then the foil bits on the AS top around the docking hatch. Then there's the antenna mounts, etc. I imagine another 5-10 hours yet.

I'm thinking of continuing this obsession by doing LM 4 "Snoopy" next. Silver AS and all black foil on the DS. I doubt many models of this one have been done.

I believe I'll do a more conventional model in between though. You know what I mean. Something you can assemble and paint. Something without any foil...

LM models ain't for wimps!

Thanks again.

Mike


Mike

 

"Grumman on a Navy Airplane is like Sterling on Silver."

  • Member since
    July 2007
  • From: Ontario, Canada
Posted by mallagoodee on Monday, September 15, 2008 8:00 AM
Mike, you're doing a nice job there. I'm just putting the finishing touches on a 1/48 LM cutaway and all those little New Ware bits and pieces almost drove me batty!

You've done a nice job attaching 'em, the vents and EVA handle!
And the Descent Stage looks terrific!
And the New Ware RCS nozzles really make the LM look good! I'll bet you can't wait to put 'em on!!

One thing I've done for the little 'gold' strips around the Landing Gear primary struts is just cut thin strips out of your 'gold' material and stick 'em on. Although your solution looks quite good anyway ( if you hadn't said it was wire, I never would've guessed!)

Way to go Mike!

Pete
  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: Virginia
Posted by Mike F6F on Sunday, September 14, 2008 4:41 PM
Here's some new shots showing the foil, some New Ware detail parts and Space Model Systems decals:



Underside of descent stage. I like the way the thicker copper colored craft foil can be formed to look like its pulled tight. The tube inside the engine bell is for mounting the model in the case.



I'm not quite there with the wire representing the tape on the landing gear. It works...sort of. Putting the Bare Metal foil over the shaped foil, I believe, works much better than trying to get the LM look with wrinkled foil on the flat plastic stage sections.



Here's the aft end of the ascent stage. I've just started fitting thin strip between the foil pieces.



Here's the forward section. Its almost complete. I'll finish details once everything is together.



The other side.

That's it. More later.

Pete, thanks for the links.

Mike

Mike

 

"Grumman on a Navy Airplane is like Sterling on Silver."

  • Member since
    September 2008
Posted by Big Al on Tuesday, September 9, 2008 1:02 PM

I've sourced some genuine Kapton tape. I cut out squares of aluminium tape and put the Kapton over the top, and then crinkle it. The extra layer makes the wrinkled bigger, and making the squares of blanket just a tiny bit bigger than the decent stage quads and sticking the tape edge to edge, I get what looks like just the right degree of puffiness.

One layer of Kapton on top of ally makes the right sort of yellow-gold finish, and two layers makes a dark reddy-gold. Perfect, as far as I can see.

  • Member since
    July 2007
  • From: Ontario, Canada
Posted by mallagoodee on Monday, August 11, 2008 9:57 AM
I ran across these 2 websites that I think you might find interesting, Mike.

This one is a guy, Vincent Meens, in France building a 1/24 LM from scratch. His attention to detail is amazing. He also indicates that he uses Humbrol 40 to replicate the colour of the Ascent Stage.
http://spacemodels.nuxit.net/

This site shows some nice details when LM 13 was being restored.
http://www.apolloarchive.com/apollo/lm13/

This is great reference when building a LM model.

Pete


  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: Virginia
Posted by Mike F6F on Sunday, August 10, 2008 3:52 PM
I never built this one as a kid, but I did build the Revell kit combo with the CSM, adapter and escape tower.

The LM is habit forming. I guess I always wanted to build another one with all the foil challenges, and being a bit of a Grumman groupie. I was at my local hobby shop and picked one up last winter. The more I worked, the more involved I got. I'd undo work I'd done and start over. The more I learned, the more I'd want to go at it.

But then, that's why we build these things, right?

I'll check out the bulkhead gray.

Mike

Mike

 

"Grumman on a Navy Airplane is like Sterling on Silver."

  • Member since
    July 2007
  • From: Ontario, Canada
Posted by mallagoodee on Sunday, August 10, 2008 12:23 PM
I agree with you Mike. And if no one's quite certain what the colour actually is, then nobody's wrong.

Did you know about this site?

http://home.earthlink.net/~pfjeld/lmdata/

Paul Fjeld has restored a LM for the Cradle of Aviation Museum in NY. And to replicate the Ascent Stage colour, shown on his colour charts, I used a used printer plate, from a commercial printer. The aluminum colour, on the image side, looks just like the colour used on the LM. When I built my first LM last year, ( AS15) I pored over every photo on the Apollo Lunar Surface Journal site, and taking into consideration the different lighting conditions of all those pix, I found Bulkhead Grey to be a perfect blend of the aluminum ... just a hint of green, a bit of beige etc.

I still can't get over the amount of time I'm using to just reference this vehicle. I mean, when I was a kid, I built this thing in an afternoon!! ;-D

Thanx Mike
Pete
  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: Virginia
Posted by Mike F6F on Sunday, August 10, 2008 11:20 AM
Thanks Pete,

The foil isn't self adhesive. I'm using a craft glue, or an occasional shot of super glue, to stick on the foil.

I'm waiting on a New Ware set myself. Dumb me didn't know about it until I'd nearly completed my first LM. In fact, I'm working around not having it yet.

As far as the gray vs. beige thing goes, I think it is a real judgement call. As someone who takes photographs for a living, I'm well aware of how light sources can effect color reflections on metal. When you study the NASA photos of LM 6, the panels can look gray, then in a different shot, a light beige. The SIM book calls for a "light beigy green," with some panels more silvery, etc., depending on the coating the panel received. Personally, I can't see much green in the photos, but I do see beige in the sunlight shots. So much of this can also depend on how accurately the film was scanned, or printed, or how close someone's monitor is calibrated. Without actual color paint chips in hand, or known actual FS colors that we modelers have relied on to help with other projects, you have to go with your guts and compromise. Gray will work fine, as will beige. We both know it wasn't shiny silver! I think that's more important.

Thanks again Pete. I'll post more as I do 'em.


Mike

Mike

 

"Grumman on a Navy Airplane is like Sterling on Silver."

  • Member since
    July 2007
  • From: Ontario, Canada
Posted by mallagoodee on Sunday, August 10, 2008 5:21 AM
This model's gonna look great Mike! Are those 'embossing foils' self adhesive? I'm building an Apollo 12 LM and am using chocolate bar foil wrappers adhered with Foil Adhesive, and you're right about not quite replicating the look of the foil on the Descent Stage. Yours looks great so far.

And I've found that painting the ascent stage Bulkhead grey is closer to the anodized aluminum colour than beige. But, that's just the way I see it.

Did you know that New Ware sells a detail set for the 1/48 LM? I just bought 2 of 'em from Cult TV Man and they are a combination of high quality resin castings and photoetch parts. Things like the RCS nozzles, the landing radar, downlock hardware and landing pads, look sharp.

Thanx for posting these pix Mike. I for one, look forward to seeing more!

Pete
  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: Virginia
LM attempt 2 WIP
Posted by Mike F6F on Saturday, August 9, 2008 2:02 PM
Here's a few WIP shots of my second attempt at the 1/48 Lunar Module from the Monogram First Lunar Landing reissue by Revell.

On the last kit, I used the kit foil and Bare-Metal foil on the descent stage, but wasn't happy with the look. The BM foil really needs to be burnished down to stick to the plastic and when trying to apply it wrinkled, it just didn't look right. The kit foil has better stick, but just doesn't have the color and, in my opinion, is too reflective.

I came upon these arts and crafts embossing foils.



They are stiffer, almost like a soft drink can, which I think helps in several ways.



It's easier to get the "puffy-ness" you want for the descent stage sections. You can bend it, wrinkle it, but since it is intended for embossing, it isn't hard to smooth either. I like the depth it gives, but the gold color isn't quite right, depending on the light source. So, I cover it with the Bare Metal gold, and use a craft glue. I can rub the BM foil onto the other foil's surface pretty hard to get good contact for the glue without crushing the stiffer foils contours.



The copper works very well for parts of the landing gear. In the Apollo photos, the outrigger struts don't have much wrinkle to them, and appear to be wrapped rather thickly. I believe this will give a decent approximation when the gear is completed.



I pushed some of the aluminum foil into the kit part and shaped the RCS blast shields.



I'm using the aluminum for the ascent stage panels too. Its thin enough to look right, can hold a slight wrinkle, and again when finished and sprayed with some beige paint, should work well.



I'm still using household, plain and black painted foil, where needed and Bare Metal for the landing gear etc.

I'll post more WIP photos as things go along.


Mike


Mike

 

"Grumman on a Navy Airplane is like Sterling on Silver."

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