Why is space so unpopular!!!

Why are we so outnumbered in this forum? 

Most likley its because there are so many forums on the net these days, and this is not one of the more active ones. I would suggest some, but that might violate forum rules..

 

Robert

NASA took the last Saturn V rocket, broke it up into little pieces and laid it on it's side. A working rocket, the most powerful people mover ever built, and they laid it on it's side.

Then they tried to pawn off that low altitude not-quite-space shuttle as a space ship.

That's why.

I remember watching the first man on the moon. I never thought I would see the last man on the moon.

I'm told the space program was too expensive to bear. Considering what technological marvels and benefits that came out of the program, I say it was cheap at twice the price.

I have just finished watching the last episode of James Burke's amazing series "Connections" (from 1975, but amazingly current), who advises me that during the same time period American women spent the same amount of money on cosmetics as NASA did for the entire Apollo project.

Makes me weep, it does.

cuz cpt kirk ruined it.  gyahahaha... 

Personally i got two diecast shuttles on my desk at work and did a full research project on mars rover design back in school.  I sure hope they don't decide to abandon mars all together as well.  Now i just need to get my hands on a lego mindstorm set to implement some of them into a battlebot some of my old roommates and I are planning to make, a fully automated KILLABOT.  LOL.

Another problem is that the mainstream kit companies (Revell, Airfix, etc.) relatively stopped making spacecraft to concentrate on high-selling kits (Nascar, Gundam??).  Plus, they have also primarily converted over to the pre-painted, mostly finished, "kits" that cater to today's youth who don't want to take time to do a kit from scratch.

To find a good space kit, you now have to rely on the cottage industries who deal primarily in resin.  Or shell out bucks on eBay.  Currently, more than one 1/48th Gemini capsule is selling for the mid-$60's with still a few days left on the auction.  And they started at $10!  Are they that rare.  I've got two on my shelf. (No, they aren't for sale!)

They say the squeaky wheel gets the grease.  Maybe a mass mailing to The Big Guys would get them to possibly do a few re-releases (they did re-release the 1/96th Saturn V after all).  The only kit I can't afford is the 1/48th Apollo stack ($150+ on eBay).

My two cents.

Mike

Even if they did finally do a manned mission to Mars (which I don't see happening within my lifetime), chances are kids would then rather play computer simulations of the mission than actually build a kit of whatever spacecraft makes the trip. After all, look at all the kids today who would rather play with the computer (or just sit and stare at the TV) than build a model, with all the waiting for the glue and paint to dry. This is, after all, the era of instant gratification, instant meals, instant messaging, instant water (just add water), instant this, instant that. You get the picture.

Although I don't build spacecraft models, I've got a major interest in the new discoveries away from the earth, both from spacecraft fly-bys and space telescopes, as well as the new interferometers (multiple telescopes that work as one giant one). There's something new nearly every day, it seems.

Jim Barton wrote:

This is, after all, the era of instant gratification, instant meals, instant messaging, instant water (just add water), instant this, instant that. You get the picture.

That is very true there.  I am 23 and when I was in college and my friends saw my models and they went "instantly", "oh i will never have the patience to finish that".  They'd rather park their rears down in front of a PC playing some online role-playing-game for 5 straight hours if not more till day break. 

What made me kind of happy was when I go to my LHS on Saturdays, I'd see 15 year olds playing warhammer table top miniature war games there, which all requires painting and some minor assembly.  At least this hobby itself still have some future for the younger generations.  (sure is a whole lot more popular in asian countries though, no idea why)

*uhem..off-topic...

I don't think it is really unpopular.  It's just that down here, most people have more 'urgent' preocupations like paying bills and putting food on the table.  Indeed people live for the moment, with little thoughts about a longer term future.  That is why not much is really done to curb greenhouse gases emissions or find alternative fuels for instance.

People have lost touch with space.  Apollo was a fantastic programme, but people are losing interest fast, and once the Soviet had been beaten at the Moon race, there was little interest in doing more of the same.  We lack great visionaries who can put difficult long term goals in our minds.  And we could do with more TV programmes and books such as Carl Sagan's Cosmos to give us the desire to look up at the starts again.

And as to the occasional high profile due to an accident or other casualty, just look at any paper in the world.  Bad news sell.  People like to see there are worst things happening to others than to them.

Perhaps the facination with war and distruction superceeds any intrest in new discoveries, or the unknown. We as a race seem to dwell on our own distructions rather than take the time to praise our accomplishments. I am no different than most, and have a keen interest in certain military subjects, but my first intrests always lay with space and space exploration. People like us, I believe, are the exception, not the rule, and kit manufactures know this.

Yann,

From what I've seen, NASA really hasn't had that spark for years, the Apollo missions to the Moon was the last spark for youngsters to imagine to travel to another heavenly body in reallity, now we have robots doing the dirty work like going to Mars, Venus, Jupiter's Moons but no Buck Rodgers in the seat and I think that's what is hurting the Space Modeling draw, there is the Star Terk types of modeling but no actual reallity space modeling in years, I've seen modelers bust their chops when Monogram & Revell released the Space Shuttle kits back in the late 70's, early 80's but now you can't get the modelers to take a second look at the kit unless the modeler is really into the Space Program, and they are a breed all their own and the kits are either a scratch built, or a very high Dollar resin kit, or a hard to find out of production kit from the late 1960's, the model companies are more into the Automotive kits then any other type because more of the young individuals are into their computer games like X-Box, Game Cubes, Nintendo's then into modeling anymore, and when they take a break from the games and go into modeling it's eazier for them to comprehend working on a car then an airplane, tank or spaceship so they'll get a car kit then a model of the space shuttle or a Patton tank or a airplane

I'm not against the Space Program, Heck I was a part of it, I worked Magellion, Galliao, TES, Commerical Titan, Titan II & IV, and my father worked with NASA during the Gemini & Apollo Missions and worked Viking and more various other satelites that where built by Martin Maretta (now Lockheed-Martin), as with my brother who still works for Lockheed-Martin

I totally agree on the fact that todays kids are in front of the tv with their gamecubes and such crap or in front of the computer playing online dumb games.  Personaly, my kids have'nt tried it yet, the older one is near 5 years old and he is more interested in the space shuttle missions and the International Space Station than in these crazy games.  I hope it will remain that way for a long time.  Of course, that's because I am passionate for space myself, otherwise he would'nt be interested.

I was not complaining, I'm sure I'm not the only one interested in the different space programs but I wish some manufacturers will still provide us with quality kits.  I'm waiting for the big new CEV to be launched and I hope somebody will make a plastic kit of it.

Guys, you're totally missing the newest, biggest spark. It was a supernova!

As one of the "younger generation" (if I can still call myself that, currently in college), there are a lot of us interest in space. It just normally stops at books and theory classes though. There are a lot of guys in our aerospace program that want to work on space stuff (I'm an airplane guy myself), and there are lots of small projects being done at all sorts of research universities. What's sad is that this really cool stuff dosn't get published to a large audience.

But the "spark", or "supernova" that I was referring to, was Space Ship One. It went into space (granted, not that high) twice, and for a lot cheaper than NASA could ever do it. Other firms are building rockets that can send satellites into space for under a million dollars. My friends, we are on the verge of the Private Space Race, and as an aero engineer, I plan to be on one of the racing teams.

For my

From my standpoint, as a kid that built both Mercury and Atlas rocket models, as well as the German V-1 and V-2, the Japanese Baka, the X-15, the Hawk Me-163, and so on, I find the subject quickly runs out of variety of designs and markings, unlike the typical WWII warbird or armor subject.

That's not saying I won't build another SR-71 Blackbird, but I'm having much more fun with Messerschmidt's right now

  Tom T

I'm 22 and so the only space program I've known is the shuttle, but I remember building one when I was 7 or 8.  I'm also a Trekkie.  I run Einstein (1550 hours) to help find graviton waves and SETI(610 hrs logged and it's running now) on my computer.  I've got a healthy interest in space but I didn't get to watch it like you guys did.  If I had a way to watch every launch, I would.  If people could see they would probably get more interested in it, but this generation has been denied the opportunity.

I think NASA and the space societies are going out of their way to make it boring.  Gone are the days of great big, thundering rockets like the Saturn and supersized space planes such as the Space Shuttle, which seems to be able to do just about anything but fly to the moon, manned by cocky, cool, test pilots.

We are now using probes that are about as exciting  to watch as a microwave cook a turkey, new spaceships that are nothing but a recycled space shuttle booster with a little Apollo capsule on top, and astronauts are nerdy PHds that talk nothing but rats, gasses, and rocks.  Also, space is regarded to be explored in a safe and cost structured manner, by politically correct people, which again, does not attract the attention of the media unless something goes wrong.

I grew up watching man land on the moon, and remember how exciting it was when Columbia touched down for the first time at Edwards in 1981.  When I see the current and future plans for the space program, I do not have much hope in that its going to attract the mass of interest as it did during the Mercury, Gemini, Apollo, Viking, Voyeger, and the Shuttle eras.

Scott

Real and proposed space craft were hot during the space race. Every America model company had some sort of real life of proposed space craft (Willy Ley designed for example) in their lines. When the space race ended, interest in these models waned.

The emergence of the space shuttle renewed interest in space craft models. Other newsworthy space incidents such as the Challenger disaster, Mir space station and the faulty Hubble telescope spurred another reawakening.

Currently, the race to get a new space craft into the sky failed to capture the attention of a major manufacturer, but garage kits popped up of the various types of space craft used.

Hi all,

I wonder if the recent Space Shuttle tragedy hasn't put a major damper on this segment of the hobby.

In any event, I'm 32, so I'm old enough to remember the excitement of the Saturn V launches and the Apollo missions, though not old enough to remember them myself. I grew up wanting to be an astronaut too.

However, I'm not as jaded as some posters here. I am excited about the Space Shuttles. I am very excited about the various unmanned probes we've sent throughout the solar system (and beyond). I avidly followed the first Mars Rover mission on the Web, and have followed the following missions too.

I'd love to build models of the ISS and the Mars rovers. Frankly, I'm very excited about the proposed missions to the Moon and Mars, but I'm doubtful they'll ever happen.

I fully intend to build some real space models -- especially a Space Shuttle and the ISS.

Regards,

I think a lot of it has to do with that 1) the field is rather limited as far as modeling goes. 2) the kits in existence are not that challenging (unless you really go into details).

Im doing research for a scratchbuild of modern IRBMs and ICBMs like the SS-25, SS-27, DF-31 etc. Probably in the 1:128 or 1:144 scale. The plan is to model about 15-20 missiles. I built the US/USSR kit from monogram, but its a bit dated.

It is not UNpopular, it is just popular with less people.
The reason are as varied and diverse as are the opinions,and many have it right on the head.
I myself believe that space has less people interested in it because it is not 'everyday'. A fire truck, a racecar, an airplane,or even a tank, can be viewed almost every day, but a space vehicle? Unless we can connect it to a tragedy, just isn't deemed interesting enough for coverage.
For me Space is history. I remember the end of the Mercury program,the Gemini program and the Apollo program.It was right there in my living room with Walter Conkite. I remember his sincere, no nonsense approach and sense of awe. I remember his tears as he told us that Grissom,White and Chaffe had all died in the Apollo 1 fire. The nation was interested in "our" boys as "we" beat the Russians again and again! Even Apollo 13 was a victory of man over machine and the harsh element of space.
The media left the space program when adventure/danger and tragedy did. Men on the moon was hoohum compared to Vietnam and protestors.
The Shuttle brought it back, in a way. It was new, never attempted, and NASA had the forsight to include the crew of the Hollywood Enterprise (NCC1701), to view the landing test of the shuttle Enterprise.
But again, space was doomed to the back burner as "The Shuttle" was not an everyday event and pretty "boring". It went up, did it's job and came back .
I am lucky enough to have an observatory a few miles from my house. So I still have "it", the interest in space exploration and travel. Those that have an interest in history may still have it too, but until it is back in the headlines I doubt you will see an over all interest.
Try this trick on your kids science class: "when was the last full moon?"
I submit it was in 1969, as Armstrong, Aldrin and Collins brought some of it back to Earth with them!
(Providing you are willing to endure the discussion of "Anceint history".)

Don

Space is not unpopular, My Dad used to say " All you do is take up SPACE in school !!

I lived and breathed rockets for much of my life. I launched by first Estes rocket in 1962 and later spent 28 years in solid rocket propulsion with a major company. I worked in a variety of applications from large boosters, satellite propulsion, ICBMs to small tactical motors and was involved in the design, manufacture and launching of a variety of vehicles. Over the years I amassed quite a stash of model kits, but most remained unbuilt. Maybe it was because I got to play with the real thing, but I think there were other reasons. 

1.) (real) Space vehicles are not personalized.  There is little opportunity, at first glance, to associate space vehicles with real people. I know very few modelers, today, who build an Me-109, they build Gunther Rall's black 13 Bf-109G2 of 8/JG 52. Few people can tell you what a Lotus 38-Ford was, but most racing buffs can identify Jim Clark's British racing green and yellow #82 as the 1965 Indy 500 winner. There is a mini industry in figuring out Michael Witmann's tank serial numbers. To build the USS Enterprise, you need to know the operational date, camouflage pattern air wings carried, etc.  

The limited number of space vehicles and the fact that they pretty much all looked the same makes the 'return business' and research aspects of space models self limiting. (We need nose art on the shuttle...)  As a direct participant, I can tell you the difference between the pre- and post 1986 Titan 34Ds, but the detail level on available models wouldn't show it.  

2.) Compared with the options available in the passive video and interactive computer media, (real) space models don't offer as much 'participant association'. Many contributors to this thread have mentioned the fascination with computer games, movies and TV shows, but another major player is the lack of opportunity for 'imaginative interaction'. 

With other model subjects, much of the 'genius' associated with the operation of the subjects, and the research on the operation is tied to the occupants...  the fighter tactics used by the individual pilots, the development of individual tank battles, tradeoffs between different fighting styles, the wheel to wheel duels between famous drivers.  With space subjects, most of the 'genius' is hidden in the design process. From the observer's perspective, they all make a lot of noise and smoke and then disappear in a straight line. The spacecraft occupants are pretty much pasengers for most of the flight. 

Also, the technologies involved in the devleopment of cars, tanks and aircraft are visible to a large extent in the models. Technological evolution in spacecraft is virtually invisible. The currenlty proposed mars rocket (which I doubt will ever fly) looks like something made by a 12 year old out of his spares box, but bears little resemblance, technically, to the original 'derivative' vehicles. Materials and electronic advances are invisible.    

3.) Of course another 'imagination' and emotional association issue is the fantasy of actual participation in the aerospace industry. The NASA of Von Braun and the WWII/cold war generation was a dynamic and inspiring organization. NASA was about the future and improvements for mankind. The 'politicization' of NASA over the last 30 years has resulted in an organization that is less than awe inspiring. It is now lead by politcally appointed bean counters and lawyers and staffed using criteria similar to the Departments of Motor Vehicles ('nuff said). Not too attractive to my imagination.

    

 

 

 

Scott,

space probes can be exciting..!  The stuff that probes such as Pioneer 10 and Voyager 2 (to name but two) have accomplished was amazing and I must have read/seen everything about them.  I even scratchbuilt them.  And unmanned probes have been around well before manned spaceflight.  The Venera series for instance.  In times of tight budgets, manned spaceflight is not the best option.  In any cases, sending men to Jupiter, or Pluto, or beyond, is not practical (yet) and highly dangerous. 

Maybe if they mounted machine guns on the spacecraft, and pin up art on the payload shrouds, then maybe it would be cool enough.

Seriously I doubt no matter how exciting or imaginative things get, real space just doesn't grab John Q Public. All one has to do is look at what the gen public thinks is entertainment, and you have your answer.

A couple of things come to mind...

Cost... Back in the day, a buck got you a decent kit, 2 bucks got you a nicer model kit. Then the biggies were $3.98! A kid could afford those prices, ok so we hunted a few coke bottles to help offset  the cost.  The big bottles were worth a nickle to return! (wow, the big bucks!)  Now you can't get anything with out whipping out the ole $20 bill.(See the nicer kits above.)

Fire the imagnation... In days of yore, the guys at Revell cranked out a few real hot items.. Like that triple booster "Moon Rocket" stack... or the cool Space Station that opened up to reveal the the control rooms and living quaters!  Then there was the Atlas and Launch Pad, later revamped to hold John Glenn's Mercury-Atlas...(all them neat little trucks and figures...sigh...) (I still have the last one I built, on my shelf, circa 1967.)  Then of course there was the ole Monogram Space Taxi, Stombecker with the Disney Rockets from the Man in Space episodes.  Imagine just for a second, a model of the X33 on it's launch pad, or the ISS depicted as the Revell space station of old. (Maybe sold in modules so you could build it as it happens! But openable to view the inside of the thing.)  Or a revamped and accurized 1/48 Apollo Stack. Followed by CEV for comparison. For us oldsters, how about a good 1/48 X-15, X-20, HL-10, HL 20 et al. Maybe even 1/32, (sigh...) but I digress.

Full court press... Von Braun's motto was "Late to bed, early to rise, work hard and advertise!" In the bad old days of (pre Apollo), NASA under took to take an exibit of the space program around the country. It featured demos by scientists, films, full scale mock-ups, (to include an early verson of the proposed Apollo capsule, opened up to a 45 degree angle so you could walk "into it" get a feel for  the thing.) a scientist/engineer in a real space suit, you could talk to him and ask questions. And on and on. the exibit was in Cleveland  for two weeks. I went 6 times (it was free to the public because they had already paid for it.) Oh, and on the way out, at the door, guess who was selling space models? Yep, all of them.

It's going to take that kind of effort to put space back on top again, nothing less.

Personally I find space exploration, the origins of the universe, Mars missions etc fascinating, but to be honest I couldn't think of anything more boring than building a model of a shuttle...and you know what...I can't explain why I feel like that.
Why would I happily build yet another German WWII tank but not even consider a vehicle that takes us to space and back?  I find that interesting and I believe that there lies your problem..but how do you explain interest in a certain topic?

Maybe it's simply the case that people with an interest in military history have a higher modelling take-up rate than those with an interest in space.
Maybe it's because the LHS has walls full of tank and plane kits and buried away down on a shelf is a rocket model. (But this assumes that someone may have walked into the shop looking for a rocket but was persuaded to buy a tank simply because they saw more of them).
I just don't know, for some reason the battles and machines of the wars spark something in me that wants to recreate a small part of it. Space vehicles don't do this for me.

Maybe it's not a case of space being so unpopular but of earthly war machines being extremely popular.

Personally I find space exploration, the origins of the universe, Mars missions etc fascinating, but to be honest I couldn't think of anything more boring than building a model of a shuttle...and you know what...I can't explain why I feel like that.
Why would I happily build yet another German WWII tank but not even consider a vehicle that takes us to space and back?  I find that interesting and I believe that there lies your problem..but how do you explain interest in a certain topic?

Maybe it's simply the case that people with an interest in military history have a higher modelling take-up rate than those with an interest in space. I guess that's obvious.

Maybe it's because the LHS has walls full of tank and plane kits and buried away down on a shelf is a rocket model. (But this assumes that someone may have walked into the shop looking for a rocket but was persuaded to buy a tank simply because they saw more of them).

I just don't know, for some reason the battles and machines of the wars spark something in me that wants to recreate a small part of it. Space vehicles don't do this for me.

Maybe it's not so much a case of space being so unpopular, but of earthly war machines being extremely popular.

I saw this thread and figured I would add my .

Why is space so unpopular?

I really can't answer that generalization, what I can do is speak of my own opinion, so prepare for the rambling. Here it comes...

I would like to think one of the main reasons is due to lack of availability. I mean look at what's on the market ( Now I'm going to have to go look! ). Well let's just say this there's not a lot available in my neck of the woods or at least since I've returned to the hobby. I see some Sci-Fi offerings from time to time, but hardly any ( real ) space models. I've been to Hobby Lobby 3 times in the last 2 weeks browsing while my wife shopped for some stuff. I didn't see one space kit. Didn't MRC or someone just recently ( err within the last year ) offer a new kit. Before that when was the last new-release? I found my "Local Hobby Shop" today and went by and didn't see much there in the space category there. I did see shelves and shelves of everything else there though. I've got one more store to go, and I'll be by there tomorrow to visit the local modeling club so I can join up.

There's always Ebay I suppose, I've never bought a kit off of there and I don't know that I ever will, but I've seen what some of the readily available kit's sell for, I guess people don't care about paying $10 more for a model so long as they "won the bid". I'd hate to think of the premiums OOP and rare kits are demanding from there. I guess I could always order from the net, but order what? I don't see many kits that are current in sales flyer's or ads or on the sites either.
So I think there's a serious problem with availability for starters.

NASA still exists? Hell we've got 20 year olds that can't even find Iraq on a map, though it's on the news every night. So is who's doing who in Hollywood, movie reviews, the gadget corner, so on and so forth. The last time NASA got any major news coverage ( more than 10 seconds on a scrolling ticker at the bottom of the screen ) was when there was a catastrophe! I really could go on, but it really won't solve anything...

I haven't built a single space kit yet! I like space and I love science, I just haven't seen anything readily available that spars my interest because when I go to the LHS there's nothing there but Cars, Planes, Ships, and Armor so that's what I build...as I don't feel I should have to pay a "premium" for a 20+ year old kit because some people decide to label them as "collectible".

I'll eventually run across a space kit and build it and I can't wait, well I guess I can or else I would have bought one off of Ebay by now.

I like Real Space as much as any other modelling genre. However the kits that are stacked up in different closets around the house would tell you that the least of my kits are the Real Space ones. Why? I think it has something to do with scale and detailing. Let's face it, you can't do gauges and seat belts in 1/144th scale (at least I can't). Also there's very little quality research material. Take for instance Squadrons "Space Shuttle" from the walkaround series. No details of cockpits, hatches, the cargo bay, or wheel wells. Just some publicity photos of astronauts waving to the camera or techs painting a logo on a wing.  They probably will not release such material because it is considered secret...which puts a damper on modelers who want to detail their Real Space projects as much as they want to detail a Ford Mustang, a Sherman, or a Spitfire. 

I'll give you my . I loved space when I was a kid. That's when it was really interesting. I started watch when they launched Gemini. I watched when they lost the video camera on the space walk. That was a great ime to be a kid. Watching Alan Shepard ( my favorite ) hit that golf ball on the moon. What do we have now, a picture of a couple of astronauts doing sommer saults in negative gravity and throwing jello at the camera! I watch and prayed for the Apollo 13. Now that took every tiny brain cell in everyones head to get them back.. and they did! Alive! God bless them people! First cent of my.

 Cent # 2.... Why don't the modelers in this forum post more pics? I scan this forum every once in a while to see what is up and what you guys are building. I can tell you one thing, and Yann you know what I mean from being in the other forums ( aircraft and armor), nothing gets the blood pumping like looking at the pictures posted! Not only for the modeler looking but also the Modeler posting them! Wow there is nothing like it. I'm very interested in what you modelers are modeling, I want to SEE what you are modeling. Come on post your work. It really will make a difference. Well I'm all out of cents so thank you for your time.

Zip

Space exploration is only exciting when there is something new happening.  I'm 22, the Space Shuttle came out in 1976 as the Enterprise.  There has been nothing new for manned space flight in my lifetime.  STS had launched how many times... what has it done to captivate American?  It blew up twice.  When I was ten, I was obsessed with the early space program because what it did was exciting and new... and it was new to me.  They put Capt. America on the largest missile ever and shot him into space.  At the end of the flight, he would plunge to Earth in a ball of flames and be rescued by a helicopter in the middle of the ocean.  Now some 50 year-old biochemist flies in the space bus, like it's a commuter flight, nerds it up with some pointless science, ( We managed to grow grass in space!!!) then they land like any other airplane.  It used to be that going to space meant that people were going out into space, and a whole new realm was open to mankind.  Now the airplane flies really high and some boring experiment gets performed.  We model things that interest us, to get the excitement of the real thing when it is unavailable to us.  A Panzer is exciting, a P-51 is exciting, a Corvette is exciting, a bus with wings is not.  The Ford Taurus is not a popular subject, neither is the STS.  That form of space flight is... routine.  It's all my generation and the generation after knows.  You fellows in your 50's and 60's remember how exciting and dynamic the Space Program was.  Now it's satellites and experiments.  No more Heroes planting Old Glory on other worlds.  No one is making the impossible a reality.  It was done because no one did it before, not for science.

I wish that someone would kick start the Space Program, put some life into it.  The biggest mistake ever made, history will show, was when the SP slowed down.  If everything would have kept going, Earth might not be stuck as a closed system.  Our raw materials are diminishing, energy is becoming more scarce, space is limitless in both.  For thirty years, we have missed out on the developments that may have come from space exploration.  Do we have enough time to get caught up?