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Attaching PE plug wires and the like

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  • Member since
    February, 2017
Attaching PE plug wires and the like
Posted by ugamodels on Monday, April 03, 2017 8:32 PM

I am attempting a Tamiya 1/35 jeep with Eduard PE. Do people really do this?  How in the world do I attach spark plug wires to the engine and distributor cap? What about PE pieces that need to attach edge to plastic? I just can't imagine that there is enough surface area to hold!

I type on a tablet. Please excuse the terseness and the autocorrect. Not to mention the erors. 

  • Member since
    January, 2013
Posted by BlackSheepTwoOneFour on Monday, April 03, 2017 8:39 PM

Tiny drill bits. I mean really tiny drill bits. In layman's term.... micro drill bits. Harbor Freight carries a nice set.

  • Member since
    February, 2017
Posted by ugamodels on Tuesday, April 04, 2017 9:18 AM

Okay, I can see (well probably not actually see) tiny holes for the wires, but what about attaching edges?

I am going to need about a 10X magnifier. ...

I type on a tablet. Please excuse the terseness and the autocorrect. Not to mention the erors. 

  • Member since
    November, 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Tuesday, April 04, 2017 9:38 AM

The drills are to drill the holes deeper.  Say at least 3/32 deep.  That gives you more gluing area than the little dimples the kit mfgr provides.

 

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    January, 2010
Posted by CrashTestDummy on Tuesday, April 04, 2017 2:56 PM

ugamodels

<SNIP>What about PE pieces that need to attach edge to plastic? I just can't imagine that there is enough surface area to hold!

What, specifically, are you attaching end-to-edge?  Depending on the part, you may be able to scribe a slot with an Xacto knife blade, or micro-saw, or back the PE part up with a piece of square plastic tubing under the PE and against the edge.  It depends on what shows when things are done.

Gene Beaird,
Pearland, Texas

 

  • Member since
    April, 2013
Posted by KnightTemplar5150 on Tuesday, April 04, 2017 3:46 PM

From what I remember of my build, the wiring in the Eduard set is typical of their products in that it's just a flat part that goes atop the distributor and then is routed to terminate. There was no need to drill out the distributors. I left it on the fret and then used a pin vice and wire for a more pleasing result. As far as edge mounted parts, no, there isn't much surface area to work with, but that's the nature of the beast. Use tweezers to place and hold the piece in position and use a fine applicator (wire, sewing needle, toothpick,etc.) to run a bead of CA to the part, allowing capillary action to draw the glue along the joint. A lot of the stuff for the jeep is bent to shape before installation and the gluing surfaces are slightly increased in size as a result - like some of the smaller fittings that get attached to the body of the Jeep have small tabs that get folded and those function as the mating surface. Study the directions carefully and work slowly because it gets delicate. Do your first few builds just as Eduard instructs and you'll be fine. There's a learning curve involved with working with PE and experience, while not necessarily kind, is the best teacher.

  • Member since
    November, 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Wednesday, April 05, 2017 9:15 AM

Ah, I didn't realize the plug wires were PE.  I never use PE "wires", I replace it with fine wire from my stash of wire.  I find fine wire harder to find these days, as hobby electronics is a dying pasttime, but craft stores like Michaels and Hobby Lobby still have some excellent stuff.

 

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Wednesday, April 05, 2017 9:34 AM

I would echo pretty much what KnightTemplar said. I didtch the flat PE wire and have a range of beading or artistic wire in differant gauges and colours. And i use a small piece of wire to apply glue to the edge of PE parts, either before attaching or while holding the part in place with tweezers.

One thing you pick up when using PE is learning which bits not to use.

 ''I am a Norfolk man, and I glory in being so''

On the bench: Dragon 1/35th Pz II Ausf F

  • Member since
    February, 2017
Posted by ugamodels on Wednesday, April 05, 2017 8:31 PM

There is a radio that is basically a folded up box, plus the struts on the fold out shelf it sits on. Both of these are PE-to-PE attachments. And then the horn.

What is the best CA to glue PE to itself? For PE to plastic? 

I type on a tablet. Please excuse the terseness and the autocorrect. Not to mention the erors. 

  • Member since
    February, 2017
Posted by ugamodels on Wednesday, April 05, 2017 10:18 PM

Experience is why i'm doing the jeep. 

But as far as the instructions from Eduard, I have a pretty low opinion. No description of what the part is, no details for folding, no link to the build order, and NO paint scheme!

I type on a tablet. Please excuse the terseness and the autocorrect. Not to mention the erors. 

  • Member since
    April, 2013
Posted by KnightTemplar5150 on Thursday, April 06, 2017 1:36 AM

The best CA for PE? Zap-a-Gap was the standard for a long time, but I like using Gorilla glue where a degree of flexibility is needed in the joint. Good old "super glue" works as well.

ugamodels

 

But as far as the instructions from Eduard, I have a pretty low opinion. No description of what the part is, no details for folding, no link to the build order, and NO paint scheme!

 

For you folks who are curious, the instructions for this kit can be found on the Eduard site as a PDF document. Here's the address:

https://www.eduard.com/store/out/media/35347.pdf

Can they be frustrating at times? Sure. But, again, this is the nature of the beast and very typical for Eduard and other PE companies as well. This is a part of that learning curve I've warned you about. Once you have a few of these under your belt, the Eduard instructions become easier to read and follow.

Manufacturers seldom, if ever any more, label the parts of their kits with a name like the "old school" manufacturers who would call out things like, "Part 17 - gunsight" or something similar. The modern modeller is expected to have done their homework, conducted a little research, collected references, and are at least passingly familiar with the details they are trying to portray as builders.

No details for folding - here, look at the part itself. Eduard is noted for its use of heavy fold lines, which are pretty evident. Study them closely and compare them to your references if you're unsure of the final shape when the instructions aren't clear to you. Most are simple bends to 90 degrees, but some can get a little more intricate. Again, that's the industry standard - very few companies are going to give you a crash course in sheet metal bending in their instructions.

No link to the build order - the Eduard plans are laid out in logical subassemblies which seldom mirror the kit instructions. Study the plans carefully and make notes on your Tamiya instruction sheet. Build it a few times mentally and you'll eventually see that the parts move from the engine, then to the chassis, to the inner pan of the body, then to outside details. There is a logic to it, but it requires careful study and planning, but that's part of the fun of PE.

No paint scheme - again, doing your homework before starting the build is essential. For the most part, the parts wind up in the overall olive drab. Some of the finer bits require that you go back to your references for colors, but that's part and parcel for PE. It's all about Proper Prior Planning and Preparation Preventing P**s-Poor Performance. Again, the nature of the beast and industry standard, where it was made by modellers for modellers.

Bish has rescored the point about being careful in what parts you choose to use. What are the best parts? Again, check your references and study the instruction sheets carefully. While PE is great at some things, it's not so great for others. A flat piece will never look like a wire, just as with the Eduard bits for the distributor and for the radio set. Compare the parts to the plastic in the kit and decide for yourself which is better and if it's worth the hassle to install in the first place or maybe you can scratch up something more convincing. A lot of model building is about judgement calls and risk taking, so in the end, a lot of this stuff is simply up to you.

 

 

  • Member since
    February, 2017
Posted by ugamodels on Thursday, April 06, 2017 9:14 PM

I appreciate all the details.  I actually bring up the pdf on a big screen so that I can actually read it. I think I have been using Loktite brand CA. Maybe I will try the Gorilla brand.

I type on a tablet. Please excuse the terseness and the autocorrect. Not to mention the erors. 

  • Member since
    February, 2017
Posted by ugamodels on Thursday, April 06, 2017 9:21 PM

Oh and regarding what the parts are, like the little box with a strap that appears to go in backwards in the back of the jeep. What in the world is it? Page 2 items 102 and 82.

sure people will do research, but I imagine that the easier (and more fun) the manufacturer makes it, the more they will sell!

I type on a tablet. Please excuse the terseness and the autocorrect. Not to mention the erors. 

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Friday, April 07, 2017 6:23 AM

Eduard instructions can be a bit tricky to follow, but they are easier than most.I have lost count of the number of times i have folded a part the wrong way and then crossed my fingurs when folding it back and hoping it doesn't snap. For box's and radio's, i put a drop of CA on some wax papaer and dip the edge of the box onto it.

A lack of painting guides is common on AM most AM sets, resin and PE. In many cases the AM is replacing kit parts and the kit instructions will have that info. If not, thats where some research comes in, and it a good idea to do that anyway and the instructions can be wrong.

 ''I am a Norfolk man, and I glory in being so''

On the bench: Dragon 1/35th Pz II Ausf F

  • Member since
    April, 2013
Posted by KnightTemplar5150 on Friday, April 07, 2017 12:19 PM

ugamodels

Oh and regarding what the parts are, like the little box with a strap that appears to go in backwards in the back of the jeep. What in the world is it? Page 2 items 102 and 82.

sure people will do research, but I imagine that the easier (and more fun) the manufacturer makes it, the more they will sell!

 

The parts you've asked about are intended to portray the mounting bracket for a loudspeaker that hooked into the AN/GRC-9 radio set. The speaker box is mounted in the bracket, secured with the strap, then wired into the system. But, neither the Tamiya kit nor the Eduard fret have this speaker included and there are many variations of the bracket in photos, some of which bear only a passing resemblance to what Eduard offers. I did not use the radio, so I just left this off and opted to add a first aid kit from the spares box instead because it was pretty prominent in a lot of reference photos.

We do research because this is all a game of fine details. While it's not always fun to do, in time, research becomes a very rewarding part of the hobby. It truly enriches the experience and it has a real impact on turning a box of plastic parts into a convincing replica.

 

  • Member since
    February, 2017
Posted by ugamodels on Friday, April 07, 2017 6:47 PM

Research (ie reading) is probably the main reason I do models, but your level of detail astounds me! I confess that I suffer from analysis paralysis at times. 

But you see my point in labeling or somehow describing the parts, don't you? If we could tell what a part is, we could more more easily decide if we want to use it.

I type on a tablet. Please excuse the terseness and the autocorrect. Not to mention the erors. 

  • Member since
    April, 2013
Posted by KnightTemplar5150 on Friday, April 07, 2017 10:19 PM

I totally understand your point, but this really is the industry standard at this point and it is an improvement over the original PE sets from the late 80s and early 90s, which were often just cottage industry stuff which came still fixed to a black backing film. In many of those, you had no instructions at all, just general notes on getting the film off and using CA. Every now and again, an outfit would provide hand-drawn diagrams or poorly xeroxed copies of photos taken of a build in process which were of little real help. Things have gotten better and will continue to grow and evolve as long as the niche market for etch survives. Give it time.

Until then, welcome to the PE ward of the asylum, where we build things no one else sees, but we know that they are there.

  • Member since
    February, 2017
Posted by ugamodels on Sunday, April 09, 2017 9:46 PM

On a business note, I think this is an opening for someone like FSM. If they could get manufacturers to let them post instructions, they could create intertwined PE plus regular model instructions on their website. I think it would be a great draw to get subscribers! 

I type on a tablet. Please excuse the terseness and the autocorrect. Not to mention the erors. 

  • Member since
    February, 2017
Posted by ugamodels on Sunday, April 09, 2017 9:50 PM

I think I am going to try that zap with UV light glue on some parts that I probably won't use. Has anyone done that? 

I type on a tablet. Please excuse the terseness and the autocorrect. Not to mention the erors. 

  • Member since
    June, 2016
Posted by David from PA on Tuesday, April 11, 2017 1:24 PM

Small drill bits ( I get mine from drill bits unlimited, a guy in Pittsburgh PA. He has drill sizes down to .02mm) and fine wire. I don't mess with PE wire sets. There is a good tutorial on ww1aircraftmodels.com about making spark plugs and stuff like that too. Really very useful for any piston engine of any era. . . aircraft or otherwise.

David From PA

 

 

  • Member since
    February, 2003
Posted by Melkavitch on Saturday, July 01, 2017 6:57 PM

To maybe help Don, who unknowingly has helped me many times, check with a local lfy fishing shop and see if the Ultra Wire they should have woud work. I tie flies and build models, trying not to confuse the two, a Wooly Bugger with big wings is no good!

Mike

  • Member since
    November, 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Sunday, July 02, 2017 12:43 PM

David from PA

Small drill bits ( I get mine from drill bits unlimited, a guy in Pittsburgh PA. He has drill sizes down to .02mm) and fine wire. I don't mess with PE wire sets. There is a good tutorial on ww1aircraftmodels.com about making spark plugs and stuff like that too. Really very useful for any piston engine of any era. . . aircraft or otherwise.

 

Something to watch is that many pinvises sold to modelers to hold miniature drills will not hold ALL of the drills in the typical #61 - 80 sets.  Several of mine will not hold #75 or smaller :-(

 

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

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