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Recommended clear sealer over Bare Metal Foil?

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  • Member since
    September, 2012
Recommended clear sealer over Bare Metal Foil?
Posted by GMorrison on Wednesday, May 23, 2018 6:06 PM

I'm working on a BMF aircraft model. After finish, I will need to clear coat the model for decal application and weathering. I would like to use a clear acrylic. My options seem to be Tamiya X-22 or "Future". 

What's the experience?

  • Member since
    July, 2013
Posted by modelmaker66 on Thursday, May 24, 2018 1:35 AM

You don't use clearcoat on bmf.

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Thursday, May 24, 2018 10:16 AM

My concern is having a smooth base for a considerable amount of complicated decals. It’s an airliner (cargo version) and has fancy cheat lines and pinstripes.

  • Member since
    November, 2008
  • From: Central Florida
Posted by plasticjunkie on Thursday, May 24, 2018 11:11 AM

GM

I do believe from all the writings on the subject that is not necessary to do so. I forgot where I read where after years the foil will weather itself becoming less shiny and a bit more oxidized. Makes sense since it's metail foil to begin with.  Clear coating it may also put a damper on the true matallic effect of the foil.

I haven't tried foiling but as example, Alclad high shine paints can be decaled and even Solvaset be used over it without any issues even though Alclad says not to use decal solutions without prior sealing.

 GIFMaker.org_jy_Ayj_O

 

 

Too many models to build, not enough time in a lifetime!!

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Tuesday, June 05, 2018 4:05 PM

Bumping this. Wouldn't it make sense to bare metal as much of the model as possible before assembly, avoiding the obvious spots like wing joins. Or am I overthinking the whole thing?

  • Member since
    March, 2015
Posted by JohnnyK on Tuesday, June 05, 2018 5:38 PM

Just a few suggestions regarding BMF:

  1. Never coat BMF with a clear coat. That will make the BMF look like a painted surface. The beauty of BMF is that it is not a painted surface.
  2. Decals are easy to apply to a BMF surface. Just put a few drops of dishwashing detergent into the warm water and the decals will slide easily over the BMF.
  3. It is important to trim the carrier film from the decal.  I also cut the larger decals into single letters. That way there is no carrier film.
 
 
5. It is easy to cover the joint at the wing root, Just bend a strip of  BMF in a 90 degree angle and apply it to the wing and the fuselage.  The result is an invisble joint and perfectly mimics the way a real wing root joint is covered. The wing root on my B-29 looks like the real thing.
  • Member since
    November, 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Wednesday, June 06, 2018 9:37 AM

I don't clear coat Alclad either.  Decals stick great to bare metal and to Alclad, and I have never had a problem with them coming up later for either base.

 

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Wednesday, June 06, 2018 10:18 AM

Thank you, very helpful.

The leading edges of everything have de-icing boots. The trailing edges are mostly fabric covered control surfaces, or the metal flaps which are separate.

So I should be able to make major sub-assemblies like wings, stabilizers and the fuse. Foil those, assemble and use that method on the joints.

Also I get that the carrier film is very visible. Does Micro Sol stain the foil?

A challenge will be that all of the cabin windows need to be filled. However, the aircraft has a red stripe over the area, so normal putty and sanding should be sufficient.

Thanks again.

Bill

 

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Wednesday, June 06, 2018 12:38 PM

Over clean plastic or over primer? I'd prefer over plastic.

  • Member since
    March, 2015
Posted by JohnnyK on Wednesday, June 06, 2018 12:51 PM

I recommend that all painted surfaces such as de-icer boots and fabric covered trailing edges be painted prior to applying BMF. It is not possible to mask BMF as masking tape will lift BMF. There is a lot that can be done with BMF to enhance the final appearance of an aircraft. Following is a main wing of my B-24J. The de-icer boots and fabric covered areas were painted prior to BMF. BMF has a natural grain and overall apperance of the wing can be improved by changing the direction of the grain. Also, try using two different colors of BMF (Chrome and Matte Aluminum). The entire wing was finished with Matt Aluminum except for the areas indicated as Chrome. I find that the Matte Aluminum has too much shine. I lightly spray it with Simple Green and wipe it dry. That reduces the shine and reduces fingerprints. . Adding rivets enhances the apperance of the final product.

Regarding Micro Sol. A year ago I finished a P-51 with BMF. For some reason, the Micro Sol darkened the foil above and below the national ensigna on the fuselage. I think that it looks good. HOWEVER, I have not been able to duplicate this effect with recent purchases of BMF. I have no idea why. I drybrushed Tamyia Smoke to weather the BMF.

 

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Wednesday, June 06, 2018 1:11 PM

Super helpful.

Yes I wondered about the boots. The decal set includes them, but I would also prefer to paint them. My control surfaces are all separate parts too.

There is the anti-glare panel on the nose. It might be a decal- I'll have to check.

 

  • Member since
    March, 2015
Posted by JohnnyK on Wednesday, June 06, 2018 1:31 PM

GMorrison

Over clean plastic or over primer? I'd prefer over plastic.

 

Are you asking if BMF should be applied over clean plastic or Primer? If so, the answer is clean plastic. One more thing, keep the plastic spot clean. Make sure there is no dust, hair, grit, etc. That all telegraphs through the BMF.

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Wednesday, June 06, 2018 1:36 PM

Yes, that was my question. Good, because I think the primer would add unwanted texture.

Since I've got an expert here on my hook, another question if you may. Will a transition  from paint to plastic show through? My guess would be yes.

  • Member since
    March, 2015
Posted by JohnnyK on Wednesday, June 06, 2018 4:30 PM

Ha, ha - an expert I am not Confused Just a lot of experience.

The texture of primer will show through the BMF. If a primer is necessary, such as at that nasty joint at the engine nacelles of Revell's bombers, then it must be sanded smooth. If you you need to remove a piece of BMF you will need to remove the adhesive before applying new BMF. Use rubbing alcohol to remove Matte Aluminum adhesive and use Simple Green to remove Chrome adhesive. Be careful, the alcohol may soften painted surfaces.

If you need to apply BMF over the edge of a painted surface you will need to sand the paint to a smooth taper.

What are you using to burnish your BMF?  The absolute best burnishing tools are paper stumps (burnishing sticks) available at craft stores. They are perfect for smothing and removing that funny pebble texture of BMF. They are soft so you can press really hard to produce a super smooth finish. 

I also use a flexible strip of plastic to guide my Xacto knife when trimming BMF aroung curved surfaces. I am using my old lettering guide from High School.

I also use a rivet tool from RB Productions to make rivets. It works great on 1/48 scale models.

Last but not least, I use a piece of 0000 steel wool to enhance the grain of the BMF. Just rub it very lightly (do not press hard) over the foil. A single pass only.

And this makes the tedious task of BMF much easier.

 

  • Member since
    January, 2010
Posted by CrashTestDummy on Monday, June 11, 2018 3:57 PM

I found some q-tips that had tapered tips that tapered to a point.  These seemed to work pretty well for burnishing BMF.  It was especially nice on the stuff I 'engine turned' to use on the cowl of my Spirit of St. Louis.  

I'll have to borrow a stump from my wife's craft room and see how that works.  

Nice work, there.  I like the steel wool idea.  I'll steal it!  Stick out tongue

Gene Beaird,
Pearland, Texas

  • Member since
    July, 2013
Posted by modelmaker66 on Monday, June 11, 2018 4:13 PM

Thanks for sharing that! New ideas all the time here! Never thought of it. I just use them for cleanup. Great advice!

  • Member since
    May, 2015
Posted by Griffin25 on Wednesday, June 13, 2018 5:07 PM

Mmmmm. Whiskey 

 

Griffin

  • Member since
    March, 2015
Posted by JohnnyK on Wednesday, June 13, 2018 7:53 PM

Griffin25

Mmmmm. Whiskey 

 

Not just any whiskey. Burbon Whiskey Big Smile

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Wednesday, June 13, 2018 7:57 PM

Having spent a small inheritance on eight sheets of Matte Aluminum, I've realized that I also need contrasting metal. I just ordered two sheets of Chrome.

The subject at hand.

Makers Mark man myself. Keeping it simple.

 

  • Member since
    November, 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Thursday, June 14, 2018 8:56 AM

Love those old DC-s.  I have a 144 -4, -6, and of course that 1/72 -4 in my stash.  But I am an Alclad fan.

GMorrison, I'll be following any thread on your build.

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    June, 2014
  • From: New Braunfels , Texas
Posted by Tanker - Builder on Thursday, June 14, 2018 4:53 PM

Bill;

 I have Bare metal Foiled many a plane . I do the control surfaces , if indicated in Model Master Aluminum , thickened to reflect a hand painted surface . I apply the foil to a clean polished surface and then the decals . Cutting the carrier film as close to the decal as is possible .

 I use many different sheets of many different colors of the stuff as I can . There is a Automobile striping tape I found that can be gotten in Flat or Semi - Gloss . this is what I use for De-Icer boots .

 I do spray with Clear coat .The reason ? I always want them to look first day new !

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Friday, June 15, 2018 12:55 PM

Don, you bet. I'm going to start soon.

Because I am closing up the cabin windows, and closing the cargo doors, I have a complete C-54 interior if someone wants it. I'll be happy to give it to you.

The cargo doors have a nice AT&SF logo across them that I want to display.

Tanks, there's also a very nice Matson Lines aircraft decal set for the DC-4. They had two aircraft, The Sky Matsonia and the Sky Royal Hawaiian, that flew Honolulu/ West Coast around the same brief postwar period as Santa Fe Skyways.

https://americanshipper.com/main/news/airline-or-steamship-company-61519.aspx

Ahh, if only life provided the shelf space for multiple 1/72 Douglas aircraft... Like a Flying Tigers stretch DC-8.

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Friday, June 15, 2018 10:54 PM

Here's a 1/144 -6B.

I've got  photos of a -6B 1/72 Heller model in the next color scheme of light blue with the white tail. I'll try to find them.

 

 

  • Member since
    June, 2014
  • From: New Braunfels , Texas
Posted by Tanker - Builder on Monday, June 18, 2018 12:13 PM

Hey !"G";

 Thank you for that hint . I have about six of these .I got them in a group of boxes full of models I bought at a yard sale . Only one ship though , Twenty five car kits . All the planes at the bottom .

   No decals . All parts there . One plane all puttied up and looking terrible . Cleaned up okay though .

 Hey , I wonder is they got the idea of the Movie with John Wayne from that ? You know the one where the Pilot is disrespected because of drinking problems and a crash is blamed on him ? You know "the High and the Mighty ". Then he brings this wreck in without loss except of an engine across the ocean , then walks away into the dark whistling that famous theme ? 

 Flying in those always gave me a thrill . Not as much as my first ride in a 707 though . Or that first time in a 727 !  MMMMM , single malt before and after !

  • Member since
    November, 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Tuesday, June 19, 2018 8:49 AM

Tanker - Builder

 Flying in those always gave me a thrill . Not as much as my first ride in a 707 though . Or that first time in a 727 !  MMMMM , single malt before and after !

 

I got a real thrill flying in the first big fan airliners.  Wow, the climb angle of those things!  Next big thrill was a ride in NASA's hot rod DC-8, the one where they re-engined it with really big fans from a more recent plane (I think they were from a 757).  While we were preparing to go aboard, a U-2 took off.  I'll bet that DC-8 has a comparible climb angle.

'Course, the most impressive climb angle I ever saw (though I was never able to hitch a ride) were the F-15s leaving STL, where they were made.  87 degree climb angle till they punched through the top of the TCA (to expedite getting them out of the area of heavy traffic quickly).  I always assumed the 3 remaining degrees were to help keep the NAV system from scrambling the heading.

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Tuesday, June 19, 2018 9:55 AM

I knew there was a logical reason to the jocks standing fighter jets on their tails...

I really wish there was a better model of the Sud Caravelle. United bought 48 of them when the Electra crisis occurred. That was the first mid range commercial jet.

My father went over to Toulouse a number of times. I have a couple of kodachrome slides he took of the assembly line.

I have the Mach 2 model in the stash, and some AM decals, but frankly I'm afraid to even open the box.

  • Member since
    June, 2014
  • From: New Braunfels , Texas
Posted by Tanker - Builder on Monday, July 02, 2018 10:18 AM

Hi " G " ;

 Yeah , I always wondered why more companies didn't do the Caravelle . It was a great looking plane !  I still have a solid wood model of one from Comet I think.   Decals are toast and the caseine glue has hardened up in it's little envelope . I can't even read the name on the box anymore .

       Instructions , Can you say unreadable ? That's okay though , Let's see  one wing thing here , Other wing thing there , OOPS ! Got the big wing things pointing the wrong way , darn it !  LOL.

 I do coat many of my foiled models for the reason I stated . Now there are exceptions to everything and I have about half of mine un-coated and they have aged nicely and the decals have not darkened . Why ? Well , just a very Thin wash of Clear coat only on them , can't see it either !

 Plus cutting super close to the edges .     T.B.

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