another wash question

Dave

DO NOT use a solvent type wash over the Alclad unless you shoot Aquagloss or Future which are Acrylics and will act as a barrier and give you sharp and clean details around bolts etc. Let it cure for a day or so then do your wash and next day shoot flat clear. 

You can use an acrylic wash over the Alclad without a problem but I find acrylic washes not to run as thin and as good as a solvent type.

plasticjunkie

Dave

DO NOT use a solvent type wash over the Alclad unless you shoot Aquagloss or Future which are Acrylics and will act as a barrier and give you sharp and clean details around bolts etc. Let it cure for a day or so then do your wash and next day shoot flat clear. 

You can use an acrylic wash over the Alclad without a problem but I find acrylic washes not to run as thin and as good as a solvent type.

 

Thanks.  Yes I know.  My biggest problem was trying to use an acrylic wash over the Alclad dull aluminum.  I have some results though.  See my other reply

plasticjunkie

You can use an acrylic wash over the Alclad without a problem but I find acrylic washes not to run as thin and as good as a solvent type.

Adding a few drops of Future may help improve the performance of your acrylic washes.

gregbale

 

 

plasticjunkie

You can use an acrylic wash over the Alclad without a problem but I find acrylic washes not to run as thin and as good as a solvent type.

 

 

Adding a few drops of Future may help improve the performance of your acrylic washes.

 

Yes I’ve tried that even Dawn but still not the same as a solvent type wash.

dlh

I have an engine block (Fiat Mefistofele) painted with Alclad dull aluminum.  I just learned that I probably can't wash that with acrylic (Citadel nuln oil).  I'm looking to get the black dirty look around bolt heads and in crevices, not terribly dirty.  I'm going to try pin washing but now that looks like a doubtful sollution.  I wan't the block finished flat (dull). So I think I'll try today (1) using some weathering pigments or (2) pinwashing just the detail areas.  I guess the right way would be to gloss coat it, apply the wash and then Dullcote it.  But I want to preserve the crispness of the surface detail.  Any advice?

(still learning this stuff)

Thanks

Dave

 

Well, I tried a straight pin wash and, as expected, it disappeared as it diffused into the dull aluminum.  So I heavily washed (brush) and below is the before and after.  It seemed that after the wash dried it somewhat sealed the surface of the aluminum.  So I flipped it over and washed twice (second photo before and after), but that was way too much effect.  So I heavily washed (third pic) just the transmission of another motor and I'm pretty happy with that one.

It's easy to make it blotchy though.  So, if I'm thinking correctly, the first wash is acting as a filter and also a bit of a clear sealant.  It does darken the aluminum as I would expect a filter to do.  So today I might try spraying the first wash and then pin washing.  I'm using Citadel nuln oil.

Well, that didn't work.  Should have known better.  So now it's on to clear coat, wash, dull coat.  It's painted with Alclad dull aluminum. I have no experience with oil washes; could I just make one with thinner and MM enamel?  I also have Vallejo weathering pigments and Vallejo Matt Medium.

Option 1 Clear coat with Alclad gloss clear coat (the stinky one). Use acrylic wash or Vallejo pigments in Matt Medium. Top coat with MM flat lacquer (It's what I have)

Option 2 Clear coat with Future or Alclad Aquagloss.  Make an oil base wash with MM paint and thinner.  Then I need to find flat finish acrylic to top coat. I have Vallejo Matt Acrylic Varnish and Microscale Micro Flat. (ordered Testors flat clear acrylic)

Option 3 Clear coat with Future.  Get some oils and turpenoid and wash with that.  Then coat with a flat in option 2.

Sorry for all this.  I'm really a beginner at weathering and clearly have more inventory than experience.  I like to buy things.  That's good, right? 

Thanks

Dave (more money than sense)

I would go with options 2or 3. I make my own washes with oil paint and Testors thinner in the red can. 

I find that acrylic washes act more like a filter and will darken the entire area or leave a blotchy appearance, solvent type washers don’t do that.

plasticjunkie

I would go with options 2or 3. I make my own washes with oil paint and Testors thinner in the red can. 

I find that acrylic washes act more like a filter and will darken the entire area or leave a blotchy appearance, solvent type washers don’t do that.

 

Thanks.  Good to hear from someone who's done it.  I have a lot of Testors and that's the thinner I use.

Dave

dlh

Well, that didn't work.  Should have known better.  So now it's on to clear coat, wash, dull coat.  It's painted with Alclad dull aluminum. I have no experience with oil washes; could I just make one with thinner and MM enamel?  I also have Vallejo weathering pigments and Vallejo Matt Medium.

 

Thanks

Dave (more money than sense)

 

I use MM enamel and paint thinner as my go-to wash all the time.  Works fine.  Use a sealer of Testors clearcoat.

Don Stauffer

 

 

dlh

Well, that didn't work.  Should have known better.  So now it's on to clear coat, wash, dull coat.  It's painted with Alclad dull aluminum. I have no experience with oil washes; could I just make one with thinner and MM enamel?  I also have Vallejo weathering pigments and Vallejo Matt Medium.

 

Thanks

Dave (more money than sense)

 

 

 

 

I use MM enamel and paint thinner as my go-to wash all the time.  Works fine.  Use a sealer of Testors clearcoat.

 

 

The positive thing about using enamel washes is that they dry faster than oils. I was using thinner from Home Depot but it doesn’t completely delute oil or enamels having a gritty texture In the mix. Testors enamel in the red can works great with both enamel and oil paints blending and producing an even thin wash.

I have painted aircraft engines with Alclad, then shoot a light coat of future. After the future dries, i've been using The Detailer washes and they work very well. 

I'm going to be building a 1/12 motorcycle soon and I'll be using this same technique to detail the engine.  

EDIT: I learned this technique from Lawdog114, who is a poster on this forum. 

hogfanfs

I have painted aircraft engines with Alclad, then shoot a light coat of future. After the future dries, i've been using The Detailer washes and they work very well. 

I'm going to be building a 1/12 motorcycle soon and I'll be using this same technique to detail the engine.  

 

EDIT: I learned this technique from Lawdog114, who is a poster on this forum. 

 

Yes I have used The Detailer also but as a matter of personal preference I like my home brew better. Best thing is to experiment and see what works for you. One may end up using several methods depending on the application.

When making washes from MM enamel, does gloss behave differently than flat.

I've ordered a few Abteilung oils and their thinners.  But I think I'll use the MM enamels for this project as I've never worked with oils; even washes are new to me.  Best part about this hobby is learning new stuff.

Dave (the OP)

dlh

When making washes from MM enamel, does gloss behave differently than flat.

I've ordered a few Abteilung oils and their thinners.  But I think I'll use the MM enamels for this project as I've never worked with oils; even washes are new to me.  Best part about this hobby is learning new stuff.

Dave (the OP)

 

Your mean using gloss paint as a wash? It will just be a bit shiny so shoot clear flat to tone it down.

If you mean using the wash over a gloss clear coat the wash will settle down on the details. If done over a flat coat then it will act more as a filter because the flat clear coat absorbs the wash and paint has a harder time running along details. 

plasticjunkie

 

 

dlh

When making washes from MM enamel, does gloss behave differently than flat.

I've ordered a few Abteilung oils and their thinners.  But I think I'll use the MM enamels for this project as I've never worked with oils; even washes are new to me.  Best part about this hobby is learning new stuff.

Dave (the OP)

 

 

 

 

Your mean using gloss paint as a wash? It will just be a bit shiny so shoot clear flat to tone it down.

If you mean using the wash over a gloss clear coat the wash will settle down on the details. If done over a flat coat then it will act more as a filter because the flat clear coat absorbs the wash and paint has a harder time running along details. 

 

I mean using gloss vs. flat as the wash over a coat of Future.  If I use flat as a wash over the whole piece, will there be enough flattening agent in the diluted wash to give a flat finish to the piece. (doesn't seem like it would come out flat)  Or will I still need to spray a flat coat over it?  I have some pieces I'm testing on before I do the actual piece.

Thanks

Dave

dlh

 

 

If I use flat as a wash over the whole piece, will there be enough flattening agent in the diluted wash to give a flat finish to the piece.

 

No, over clear gloss it will settle around details so clear flat needs to be sprayed to kill the gloss on rest of the parts. 

plasticjunkie

 

 

Don Stauffer

 

 

dlh

Well, that didn't work.  Should have known better.  So now it's on to clear coat, wash, dull coat.  It's painted with Alclad dull aluminum. I have no experience with oil washes; could I just make one with thinner and MM enamel?  I also have Vallejo weathering pigments and Vallejo Matt Medium.

 

Thanks

Dave (more money than sense)

 

 

 

 

I use MM enamel and paint thinner as my go-to wash all the time.  Works fine.  Use a sealer of Testors clearcoat.

 

 

 

 

 

The positive thing about using enamel washes is that they dry faster than oils. I was using thinner from Home Depot but it doesn’t completely delute oil or enamels having a gritty texture In the mix. Testors enamel in the red can works great with both enamel and oil paints blending and producing an even thin wash.

 

That sounds like synthetic thinner.  Many hardware and home improvement stores sell such paint thinner, and it is junk. It has particulates in it. It has a milky appearance.  However, it is usually sold in opaque containers, so you cannot see it before buying it.  I now buy only stuff that says turpentine or mineral spirits.  Then you know it is the real stuff.

Don

This stuf is not milky but clear and comes in a blue can and it's made by Klean Strip. It says "Paint Thinner"  made with mineral spirits.

Lowes sells one made by Jasco but it too says 100% mineral spirits.

I know that when I mix my washes, either enamel or artist oil paint with the Testors (red can) my mix does dot separate into a gritty liquid.

plasticjunkie

Don

This stuf is not milky but clear and comes in a blue can and it's made by Klean Strip. It says "Paint Thinner"  made with mineral spirits.

Lowes sells one made by Jasco but it too says 100% mineral spirits.

I know that when I mix my washes, either enamel or artist oil paint with the Testors (red can) my mix does dot separate into a gritty liquid.

 

If it says mineral spirits, that is not the bad stuff I was referring to.  Just a note to everyone using enamels- be careful you know what you are buying!  That synthetic stuff is junk- you cannot even use it to wash brushes.  The grit stays in the brushes.

I made my wash from Testors flat black enamel and Testors enamel thinner (red can).  It worked OK but I had to keep stirring it though as the pigment kept settling out.  I guess this is normal because this happens in the paint bottles sitting on the shelf.  I was surprised how quickly it settled though.  Still learning.  I'm going to try Testors Acrylic Clear Flat and Allclad Klear Kote flat on test pieces that I had sprayed with Future and washed with the Testors wash described above.  The Allclad does have that spirit smell so I don't know how it might affect the Testors wash.  Any thoughts?  Thanks.

Dave

Try “Gauzy”Shine enchancer .Spray a mild coat Let dry .Then  use a semi-dark sludge wash .Use a mix of brown/rust paint.Next use a clear dark blue wash around corners and bolts.Nou seal w/ a semi-mat product to create the realistic effect.Warhammer hobby gaming modelers use this system for their gaming figure that have aluminium armor.