Loss of Paint Brands - Or What Now? Not just paints though.

I'm betting that MRP paints have all kinds of un-PC ingredients in them, and they work better than the old paints in my opinion.  No messing with them...no special thinner mixes, this ratio of this...that ratio of that.  They just work, straight out of the bottle.  Their cure time of less than an hour also eliminates the dreaded, days-long dry times we're all familiar with.  There's no down-side to them.

TB,  If you are going to continue to write such long posts, you are going to have to start including pictures if you expect me to read them 

You guys realize that VOC regulations have nothing to do with political correctness, right?

Although I was being facetious when I said "un-PC ingredients", I often find myself being skeptical of what is considered "safe".  There are all kinds of things that were once thought of as safe, which aren't now.  Heck, even things that were invented 5 years ago have ended up in several of those 1-800-BAD-LAWYER commercials.  One of the solvents I use in modeling even had a substitute being sold for it a few years ago, and the popular belief was that the real stuff had been banned because it was so poisonous.  Turns out it was actually just a marketing gimmick caused by urban legends, and the "substitute" turned out to be just as dangerous...if not more so.  Personally, I'd be more concerned about all of the electromagnetic radiation we're all being exposed to on a daily basis, but I don't see many regulations regarding that. 

I was out of modeling for a while and resumed within the past few years.  I made the jump from enamels and lacquers to acrylics in one big step.  It was certainly different, but not necessarily bad.  

Outside of modeling, I think you'd have to agree that modern automotive finishes are vastly superior in terms of durability and fading than anything from our youth and they do so with far less environmental impact in manufacturing and application.  Paint doesn't have to be nasty to be good.

MJY65;

       Question here; How many fairly new, Under ten years old, Cars have you seen with peeling spots of clearcoat on them? This tells me the paints are way crappier than back in the day. I bought an old car in 1978. It was a 1957 Dodge Coronet four door. After washing the paint was as good as new. No rust and the car had been outside since 1970. Oh! it was a Texas car as well. No Road salt!

       The thing is moot really. I remember when the P.P.G rep came by the shop to demonstrate how to use the new Ford paints that required Hardener in it. After that it was ridiculous, Hardener here, Hardener there, Then Clear-Coat. G.M. could be done with Lacquers. Dry totally in forty eight hours - Polish and re - install trim - Deliver to customer - Done!

    We had a dedicated booth and drying area for Enamel jobs with a heat feature in it. They were dry to total hardness in 12 hours. Then left to cool for a day. Enamel takes longer to gas out. Lacquer, not so. But the operations were done at seperate ends of the compound. All polishing and buffing was done in a seperate building!

     We had the latest dust and air flitration equipment you could get. Don't wear Protection and Breathing gear? Collect your last paycheck! No Exceptions!

Tanker-Builder

MJY65;        Question here; How many fairly new, Under ten years old, Cars have you seen with peeling spots of clearcoat on them? This tells me the paints are way crappier than back in the day.

I'm not in the industry, so really haven't observed that.  I guess it depends on how far back we are talking about.  I have absolutely no experience with cars built/painted prior to the mid 1960s.  I can tell you that two of my dad's cars, a 1974 Ponitac and a 1984 Chevy pickup had major paint issues.  It's possible that that era was the low point of paint technology and today's are better than that, but not as good as vintage paints from the 50s.

Testors has NOT been pushed out of the market.  It is still in business as a brand, and continues to develop and sell new paints.  The only change is that it has dropped military colors in its MM line and developed new colors for a broader range of market.  They have developed a new line of lacquers (I suspect they are acrlyic lacquers) that I like very well.  They are quite similar to Tamiya acrylic lacquer.Their color-shifting paints are new, appearing after the so-called death.

They have expanded their line of metallic enamels such as gold, silver, aluminum, etc.  Their latest flat aluminum is very nice, as is their Chrome.  The latter is great for touchup on foil flaws and gaps.

The obituary for Testors was highly exaggerated.  My local HL manager says the Testors paints sell very well.  I have no connection with Testors, just a long customer relationship- I used Testors paints on my first models over seventy five years ago, as well as their model airplane glue.  They are still my goto paints for everything except polished or lightly weathered aluminum, for which I am an Alclad fan.

  I see more paint brands on the market now than ever before in my seventy five years of model building.

Hi Don;

    I used the Testors name in General. The Model Master Line was mainly what I was hoping folks would understand as the product. the Little Bottles are out there and Yes! the New metallics are nice. I also noticed the custom colors seem to be sticking around. Gotta look for them, but they are still out there!

     It's like Humbrol. You can still find it but the pallet appears to have shrunk. It actually in some colors hasn't, They just changed the name. Deck Bleached Teak is now Dark Sand!

MJY65;

      You are definitely right about the 84 Chevies and Yes, even the 74 Pontiacs. Some colors just did not seem to hold up to the weather very well. What no one realizes though is this. Paint is assailed constantly by all we throw at it. Muddy water and Dusty air act just like sandpaper, Microscopically, on paint. If you have a bad or poorly made color it will fail faster!

Don, this is not correct.  It has been confirmed over and over (including the editor and chief of this website) that the entire line of modelmaster is discontinued.  That includes the entire acrylic line and enamel line of model master.  As well, all the metalizers and the lacquer automotive sprays.

The only thing left is the old testors square enamel bottles.  That's it.

This is not rumor or misinformation.  This is fact and has been confirmed by testors/rustoleum. 

The colors you are mentioning (the lacquer sprays are called "extreme lacquers " have been around for at least 10 years 

I'm pointing this out as a polite courtesy because your posts statng the opposite is confusing for people and is the opposite of the information coming directly from testors.

Lastly, you may still find certain mm paints in stores as they are selling any stock that is still on shelves 

Hi Hypertex;

   Yup! It's all rolled up in rules and regulations handed down though. V.O.C ( Volatile Organic Compounds are Not good for you. Never have been. It took regulations though, to protect the folks who used it regularly. Before then, Well? It was up to the persons or departments in charge.

It is becoming really difficult to find Model Master Metalizer rattle cans. I recently needed a can of Metalizer Stainless Steel. The only place that I could find it was an online hobby shop in Poland.

Hi JohnnyK;

        You are so right.They disappeared here in almost a FTL manner. Now like you, I have to use something else.

As to the 1:1 paint problems that our big 3 had in the late 80's to mid 90's, it was laid to incompatibility of new paints adhering to the"e" coat primers used on bare metal at the factory.  The shop I went to work for in '95 did $35K in repaints in one year on just chevrolet's alone on warranty fixes.  Multiply that by all the other shops across the country, and all maker's, no wonder the big 3 finally said no more. 

You noticed that the edges of doors and fenders peeled less than centers of panels....more paint.  They were using thinner color coats.  Whites and silvers seemed to be the worst offenders, along with reds.  TB's observations are spot on. Newer base/clear coats are way better than in years past.  Waterborne paints are the norm now and gaining because of the VOC regs.

Roughly equivalent to our use of some acrylics over bare plastic and peeling.

Don, I haven't been able to find any form of flat/dull coat lacquer from either MM Or plain Testor's.

I've used their #1960 spray cans for years.  Last time I ordered from Scale Hobbyist they sent me a rebranded version called Testors automotive laquer.  It seemed to be the same thing.  Now they don't even have that.  It's a staple to my model finishing.

I'm talking about the 3oz spray cans here.  Any ideas?

Don Stauffer

Testors has NOT been pushed out of the market.  It is still in business as a brand, and continues to develop and sell new paints.  The only change is that it has dropped military colors in its MM line and developed new colors for a broader range of market.  They have developed a new line of lacquers (I suspect they are acrlyic lacquers) that I like very well.  They are quite similar to Tamiya acrylic lacquer.Their color-shifting paints are new, appearing after the so-called death.

They have expanded their line of metallic enamels such as gold, silver, aluminum, etc.  Their latest flat aluminum is very nice, as is their Chrome.  The latter is great for touchup on foil flaws and gaps.

The obituary for Testors was highly exaggerated.  My local HL manager says the Testors paints sell very well.  I have no connection with Testors, just a long customer relationship- I used Testors paints on my first models over seventy five years ago, as well as their model airplane glue.  They are still my goto paints for everything except polished or lightly weathered aluminum, for which I am an Alclad fan.

  I see more paint brands on the market now than ever before in my seventy five years of model building.

 

 

 

 

 

Wilbur Wright

Don, I haven't been able to find any form of flat/dull coat lacquer from either MM Or plain Testor's.

I've used their #1960 spray cans for years.  Last time I ordered from Scale Hobbyist they sent me a rebranded version called Testors automotive laquer.  It seemed to be the same thing.  Now they don't even have that.  It's a staple to my model finishing.

 

I'm talking about the 3oz spray cans here.  Any ideas?

 

 

 

Don Stauffer

Testors has NOT been pushed out of the market.  It is still in business as a brand, and continues to develop and sell new paints.  The only change is that it has dropped military colors in its MM line and developed new colors for a broader range of market.  They have developed a new line of lacquers (I suspect they are acrlyic lacquers) that I like very well.  They are quite similar to Tamiya acrylic lacquer.Their color-shifting paints are new, appearing after the so-called death.

They have expanded their line of metallic enamels such as gold, silver, aluminum, etc.  Their latest flat aluminum is very nice, as is their Chrome.  The latter is great for touchup on foil flaws and gaps.

The obituary for Testors was highly exaggerated.  My local HL manager says the Testors paints sell very well.  I have no connection with Testors, just a long customer relationship- I used Testors paints on my first models over seventy five years ago, as well as their model airplane glue.  They are still my goto paints for everything except polished or lightly weathered aluminum, for which I am an Alclad fan.

  I see more paint brands on the market now than ever before in my seventy five years of model building.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I bought some glosscoat recently.  I am low on the dullcoat so I will be going to HL this week, so I will let you know what I find.

Glosscote and dullcote are Testors brands so they should still be widely available. It's only the modelmaster line thats sadly gone. I rarely go to HL so I'll be curious as to what they currently carry.

jeffpez

Glosscote and dullcote are Testors brands so they should still be widely available. It's only the modelmaster line thats sadly gone. I rarely go to HL so I'll be curious as to what they currently carry.

 

The 2 Hobby Lobby stores I've been in recently have not made any changes. The same Testors racks are in place, with more and more empty slots.

bluenote

Don, this is not correct.  It has been confirmed over and over (including the editor and chief of this website) that the entire line of modelmaster is discontinued.  That includes the entire acrylic line and enamel line of model master.  As well, all the metalizers and the lacquer automotive sprays.

The only thing left is the old testors square enamel bottles.  That's it.

This is not rumor or misinformation.  This is fact and has been confirmed by testors/rustoleum. 

The colors you are mentioning (the lacquer sprays are called "extreme lacquers " have been around for at least 10 years 

I'm pointing this out as a polite courtesy because your posts statng the opposite is confusing for people and is the opposite of the information coming directly from testors.

Lastly, you may still find certain mm paints in stores as they are selling any stock that is still on shelves 

 

  I thoroughly looked over the Testors website.  HL had new brochures about the Testors brand.  I talked to the store manager, who said the Testors paints are big sellers and she has no problem re-ordering.  That store has two big racks of paint and some smaller paint sets on shelves.  I have no problems getting testors enamels, acrylics, and their new lacquer.  Maybe I live in an alternative universe, but the only things that I know for sure is that Rustoleum bought Testors and I still find it available.  Only thing I cannot find is the old MM line.  These are facts.

Don Stauffer

 

 

bluenote

Don, this is not correct.  It has been confirmed over and over (including the editor and chief of this website) that the entire line of modelmaster is discontinued.  That includes the entire acrylic line and enamel line of model master.  As well, all the metalizers and the lacquer automotive sprays.

The only thing left is the old testors square enamel bottles.  That's it.

This is not rumor or misinformation.  This is fact and has been confirmed by testors/rustoleum. 

The colors you are mentioning (the lacquer sprays are called "extreme lacquers " have been around for at least 10 years 

I'm pointing this out as a polite courtesy because your posts statng the opposite is confusing for people and is the opposite of the information coming directly from testors.

Lastly, you may still find certain mm paints in stores as they are selling any stock that is still on shelves 

 

 

 

 

  I thoroughly looked over the Testors website.  HL had new brochures about the Testors brand.  I talked to the store manager, who said the Testors paints are big sellers and she has no problem re-ordering.  That store has two big racks of paint and some smaller paint sets on shelves.  I have no problems getting testors enamels, acrylics, and their new lacquer.  Maybe I live in an alternative universe, but the only things that I know for sure is that Rustoleum bought Testors and I still find it available.  Only thing I cannot find is the old MM line.  These are facts.

 

 

don, perhaps I'm misunderstanding you.  Previously, you were indicating that Model master simply reduced their Model master line by cutting the military colours.  I was simply correcting that by stating the entire Modelmaster brand is discontinued.  I already said that Testors enamels in the square bottles are still available.  As well, again, the lacquer paint you are referring to is previously known as "one coat lacquers", since rebranded as Testors Extreme Lacquer.  I was stating that this is not a new product, but actually has been around for at least 10 years.  All their Modelmaster branded sprays (automotive lacquers, enamels, etc) are discontinued.

Regarding their website, it hasn't been updated in years, and in fact, a customer asked them about that, please see below from Testors' official facebook page

Regardless, my apologies if I somehow misunderstood you.  Perhaps my post was coming across as a bit rude, and I want you to know that was not my intention.  If you took it that way, then my sincere apologies.  

 To-Cbaltrin-SOON:

C'Mon Folks:

    This thread was not intended to be a repeat of one about the demise of Model Master Paints. It was to point out the difficulties inherent in learning to use or not use new ones that do not have the color palettes we got used to.

   Or in some cases the ease of use the faves were blessed with.

I just tried a Revell acrylic OD in those weird square bottles. The owner at Hobby Express called them "new". After I figured out how to open the darn thing, I was pleased. Airbrushed nice, tried thinning it with Tamiya thinner and whiteboard cleaner, both worked well. Haven't tried brush painting with it but I'm guessing it would brush smoothly. 

Joe

I just looked at the Revell paint web page.  Some interesting colors.  I was looking for a buff color.  I may try their silk yellow- looks close to a buff.

Where in US are they available.

Hobbyworld-USA has the Revell enamel paint. I've ordered from them a few times and it's always been a good experience.

I build model cars. I like to use an automotive line of lacquer primers and paints, including a spray clear-coat that started disappearing several years ago, so I bought several cases where I could find them, mostly on Amazon.

The colors started disappearing too, but I have a nice collection of those I've collected over the last 20 years and they still spray, and for a last resort, I have Automotive urethane primers and paints that are far superior to anything in a hobby store.

When Tamiya and the other hobby brands are forced out, I will either still have my urethanes or be dead. I'm a dinosaur in the hobby and could kick the bucket anytime.

In the meantime I wear my 3M Respirator when spraying.

Tanker-Builder

This thread was not intended to be a repeat of one about the demise of Model Master Paints. It was to point out the difficulties inherent in learning to use or not use new ones that do not have the color palettes we got used to.

I'm late to this thread, but I'll add that having been away from the hobby for over 30 years, it was a real eye opener to start looking for paints/etc.  I still have a couple of jars of enamels from forever ago, but mostly I had nothing and needed to start from scratch.  I was *ecstatic* to see all the water-based acrylics available now; as someone who was frequently banned from the kitchen by my mother because of the paint smells, I was a bit worried how SWMBO would take it if I started fuming up the house.

I made the choice last year to start with Vallejo paints, but have since spread out to trying Mission Models (LHS find, love it), Stylnrez primers, and a couple of MiG metallics.  I built an airbrush booth out of foamcore and vent it right back into the room, no window vent needed.  Frankly, between the paints and the newer kits, I feel like I hit the jackpot coming back after so long!

Anyway, I remember the old enamels (and I still have some Floquil and Model Master bottles, as well as a couple square Testors bottles), perhaps even fondly, but I'm really happy with the new lines of paint that I'm having to learn how to use.  If nothing else, my collection seems to have gone from 10-15 bottles to...well, let's just say I went overboard.  That reminds me, I need to order yet another paint rack.....

daniel

UnwaryPaladin

...tried thinning it with [...] whiteboard cleaner...

This is the first I've ever heard of this!  I suppose it makes sense, it's probably just an alcohol.  I've never bought whiteboard cleaner, I've always just used spray Lysol - the ethanol content is high enough, works great, even on long-dried marker....

daniel