Future cracked after painting??

"will the dishwashing liquid work for airbrushing as well? won't it allow the paint to easily run?"

Yes - but it only works for "water-based", e.g. acrylic, paints and it doesn't take much.

tominator,

future, or wipe and shine in my case, is scented to i can't smell any ammonia in it but windex or any ammonia based glass cleaner are used to clean or remove future maybe it does contain ammonia.

tailspin,

will the dishwashing liquid work for airbrushing as well? won't it allow the paint to easily run?

"won't the dishwashing liquid react with the Tamiya acrylic? i think Tamiya acrylic is different from other brands, i remember swanny said in his article that future cannot be mixed with Tamiya acrylics."

Just a drop isn't a problem for water based paints. It reduces the surface tension of the paint and allows it to flow and cover better. It's really useful in brush painting. For example, I sometimes use white glue to mask canopies, and a drop of dishwashing soap improves the brushability...

hey does the wipe and shine smell like amonia??
coz im in oz and here we have this stuff called pledge, but i t contains amonia and will cause paints to run or rewet.... maybe thats the prob?

murray,

thanks, i'm using finish 2001 automotive carnauba wax for my models and it turns out nice.

tailspin,

won't the dishwashing liquid react with the Tamiya acrylic? i think Tamiya acrylic is different from other brands, i remember swanny said in his article that future cannot be mixed with Tamiya acrylics.

sigman,

i'm from manila. wipe and shine is the same as future. i'm using wipe and shine too. i used "future" terminology coz it seems people know it better as "future" but they are the same stuff.

berny13,

i don't think the paint was too smooth, either the acrylic paint wasn't totally dry or the future reacted with the Tamiya acrylic paint and "re-wet" it as jdavidb suspect. it may be the type of acrylic mixture because i finished another model with Tamiya enamel paint in silver (x-11) and coated it with future and it turned out great, no cracking or anything.

i guess i'll just polish and wax the one i'm making right now.

Did you consider that the paint was too smooth for the future to get a good grip on? Any paint or coating has to have something to attatch its self to. If the underlying paint was too smooth, the future did not have a gripping surface when it started to dry. With nothing to grip, it would seperate when elements in the future evaporated.

If you look at gloss paint under a microscope, you will see it isn't smooth. It looks wavey. Not as much as flat paint but still wavey. By polishing the paint, you take some of the wavey texture away, making for a smoother surface. The smoother the surface, the less gripping power of any paint or sealer applied over the top.

In the future (no pun intended) just use polish and do not coat with future.

Hey turb,
w/c part of the Philippines are you? And also, where did you buy future here, coz i can only find the "wipe & shine?

There was an article on this by Bill Devins in an IMPS Journal in 1990. In summary, he said that the cracking is in the underlying paint because it wasn't completely cured before the Future was applied, even though it appeared to be. His recommendations were thin the color coat with windshield washer fluid (or a combination of rubbing alcohol, water and a drop or two of dish detergent), light color coats, ample drying time between color coats, first color coat or two as flat (covers better, dries faster) and a final coat of gloss color.

I haven't had the problem but apparently it's not uncommon...

Lots of info in this thread. Personally, I like the look of nicely polished paint, rather than a heavy clearcoat. Seems more 'in-scale' to me... If I were you, I'd just apply some wax (Tamiya wax is good stuff) after your polish and leave it at that. Should be every bit as good (or better, IMO) than if you put Future on it.

Murray

thanks jdavidb, i've used tamiya ts-17 before but they are kinda pricey for me so i think i'll stick with airbrushing for the meantime.

do you have any tips when painting car bodies using tamiya acrylics? i've let the paint dry for a about a month now and i polished it last night using tamiya polishing compound and it came out shiny. i'm afraid to paint future over it anymore from my previous experience with the smaller part (i have yet to repaint it that part).
how do you achieve dept when painting with acryclics? should i paint it with a topcoat of clear acrylic or enamel?

I had solid colors on my mind when I wrote that about enamels for car bodies. Silver or white car bodies are a different story for a whole different set of reasons.

Here is a paint that I haven't tried, but I know people have great success with it: http://ourworld-top.cs.com/mcwautofinishes/paint/catalog.html MCW paint requires primer and an airbrush. You have to order it through postal mail or fax.

The other thing that I am doing now is using Tamiya TS-17 and the synth lacquer clear gloss to do a silver paint job on a Jaguar XJ-220. So, maybe those Tamiya synthetic lacquers or MCW real lacquer will be of interest to you.

QUOTE: polishing compound should be the same as buffing with an ultra fine cloth right?

Sort of. There's that wet powder that dries up & gets into the body panel lines though.

QUOTE: or should i use toothpaste instead?

I don't know the results of that because I've never tried it thanks to Micro-mesh.

QUOTE: do you know how to prevent future from wetting up the acrylic paint again?

No, because I used Future only for testing it out and didn't like it for anything except fixing clear parts. It is great for clear parts repair.

QUOTE: have you ever used acrylics in painting car bodies?

Yes, but I never completed a car with the body painted with acrylic. I did use Gunze acrylic to finish a few mecha models that have a good bit of gloss body armor polished with Micro-mesh. I didn't wax or Future coat those models afterwards.

QUOTE: how do you achieve a mirror like shine?

Enamel airbrushed on in as few coats as possible, allowed to cure then polished with micro-mesh. The Malibu I am working on now is Boyd high gloss black enamel that I covered in one coat. I've already polished it one time through and it looks almost perfect. I can even read the mirror image of that little print on light bulbs in its reflection. In 3 more days, I'll be going back over its paint with 4000 through 12000. I never have gotten around to buying wax, but now that I have a solid black car to finish, I may have to.

ok..i used 70% isoprophyl alcohol to remove the coat of future and it seems that even the base coat of yellow did crack a bit too..or reshaped to the crack of the future.

jdavidb,

i think you're right jdavidb..i think the future did wet the yellow acrylic paint after drying. i may need to re paint the yellow again..good thing it's just the 2 rear quarterpanels so it shouldn't be too hard.

about the polishing compound, i used it to polish the yellow to a shine because after painting a wet coat of yellow, it wasn't that shiny after it dried. i was trying to achieve a shine before coating it with future to give even more shine. polishing compound should be the same as buffing with an ultra fine cloth right? or should i use toothpaste instead?

do you know how to prevent future from wetting up the acrylic paint again?

have you ever used acrylics in painting car bodies? how do you achieve a mirror like shine?


onyan,

i used tamiya X-20A acrylic paint thinner. i was thinking of using water or alcohol but i didn't dare to use them coz i don't want to ruin the model. i used a paasche vl airbrush and thinned the paint to milk like consistency with an air pressure of about 30 psi.

Turb,

70% isopropyl is okay, you should have no problem with it. I've heard some even using the 40% variety with no adverse effects.

Yes, I'm familiar with tropical Asian weather. I was assigned years ago in Singapore for half a year and to pass the time I built a few models there (would you believe I brought my basic tools and a small squeeze bottle of Future? ). There was a lot of humidity as I remember but it didn't seem to affect the Future finish. Anyway, I may have speed-read through your post and missed it, but what did you use to thin the Tamiya Acrylic Yellow (gloss?), if any? I'm just guessing which substance may have caused the reaction with Future.

Cheers,
onyan

QUOTE: i think the tamiya paint has already cured because i was able to polish it with rubbing compound to a shine. isn't that if the paint is not yet fully cured it'll be ruined when i'm polishing it?

I am suspecting that the Tamiya did cure the first time, but I think Future wet it up again.

I use enamel or synthetic lacquer on car bodies. For enamel, I'm probably the only person in the world who does this: I'll actually Micro-mesh the body all the way from 3200 to 12000 grit only 2 or 3 days after painting it. I do this very lightly with the body and polishing cloths underwater in the sink so they'll slide on the sticky paint. I can actually make sticky paint look mirror-like at this point. Then I leave the car body alone to give the enamel a whole 2 weeks to cure then I go back over it with wet 4000 through 12000 grit . I never do ruin the paint by polishing this way. One thing I don't do is use wax or other cream until long after the final body stuff is done. If you're going to use Future as a gloss coat, there would be no reason to use a wax or cream before doing it. Only Micro-meshing to probably 6000 grit should be enough before Future.

QUOTE: you're right..i've read swanny's article about future and tamiya acrylics but i think he was referring to mixing them together in liquid form.

I'm saying I think they did join in liquid form when/if the Future caused the Tamiya to go wet again. If that happened, there were probably large areas where the Tamiya could not cure the 2nd time because the Future had it sealed. Future was looking for something to grip onto, but slid around and cracked against or pulled away from itself.

It has been 4 years since I tested Future on car bodies and other things. I've only tested it on small parts since then. I'm suprised I can remember a few things about how it behaved, but It was the fact that Future will not flex at all once cured was what led me to not attempt to finish a car with it.

jdavidb,


i think the tamiya paint has already cured because i was able to polish it with rubbing compound to a shine. isn't that if the paint is not yet fully cured it'll be ruined when i'm polishing it?


onyan,

i live in sunny hot philippines so it's not the weather. the thing i watch out here is dust..it's too damn dusty. so it's definitely not the weather.

you're right..i've read swanny's article about future and tamiya acrylics but i think he was referring to mixing them together in liquid form.


what kind of rubbing alcohol should i use? will 70% isopropyl rubbing alcohol be ok?

I don't have an inkling where you live, but was it really cold, as in winter with no heating available, when you brushed on Future? This is the only case I've read in another forum where Future cracked: the guy left his model out on his porch in winter, covered by a clear cover, to sun-dry (not that strong a sun, though). When it was dusk and he came to get his model, he found cracks just as you did. Could be the sun and/or the freezing cold, we won't know for sure. I slightly suspect the polishing compound because I've used Future on Tamiya Acrylics so many times and haven't encountered this problem of yours. The compound may have caused a reaction with the Future. Perhaps you can try this on a scrap styrene piece to find out.

I wouldn't try Windex to get the Future off because I've had the bad experience of the acrylic paint being pulled off too -- mighty strong stuff for water-based paints. Try alcohol first as wibhi2 said, on an inconspicuous part.

And oh, Swanny's warning about mixing Future and Tamiya Acrylics refers to the two being mixed together in LIQUID form, such as when you're making a gloss version of a flat paint. Future brushed or airbrushed over dry and sufficiently-cured Tamiya Acrylics is perfectly okay.

Hope this helps,
onyan

You could also use rubbing alcohol to remove future. I think rubbing alcohol would be less invasive of the tamiya acrylics. Test it on scrap first.

It says on Swanny's Complete Future, "Results have been poor when mixing Future with Tamiya acrylics and I do not recommend it."

Windex is what I read people usually taking the Future coat off with especially when it's the size of a car body.

the Tamiya paint definitely moved underneath the Future. Future will not shrink, so it cracked up instead. Either one week was not enough time to cure, or Future caused the Tamiya to go wet again and it attempted to cure a 2nd time with the Future curing faster than the Tamiya, of course. Aircraft modelers know more about what to expect when using Future over acrylic, so let's see what they say. Sounds like you'll have to strip the Future coat off and hope the yellow's damage is minimal. It's possible unless the acrylic did go wet again and tried to re-cure. If that happened, the yellow will have reshaped into the cracks of the Future.