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How the heck do you use this?

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  • Member since
    March 2008
  • From: Colorado
Posted by TacoBuff on Wednesday, August 27, 2008 4:40 PM

Hey, thank you all for the help and suggestions.  I'll definately try and get some practice time with the AB this weekend.

As far as compressor go, any names that stand out above the rest?  I'm going to start researching those next.

  • Member since
    February 2008
  • From: Van Alstyne, Tx.
Posted by bspeed on Wednesday, August 27, 2008 11:02 AM
Keep an eye on your local craigslist, tools section. might find some real deal on a compressor.
  • Member since
    April 2008
  • From: Philadelphia PA
Posted by smeagol the vile on Wednesday, August 27, 2008 10:44 AM
It is good, even though I get alot of problems if I dont spray thinner through it for like 20 seconds when im done, and I cant let it sit with a bottle of paint on the cap, it has to be sitting on the thinner jar, its odd like that.

 

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: Sydney, Australia
Posted by Phil_H on Wednesday, August 27, 2008 7:30 AM

Cool, very nice brush - I've got one of these.

Very reliable, consistent, easy to use and maintain.

Oh, and definitely a single-action brush.

  • Member since
    April 2008
  • From: Philadelphia PA
Posted by smeagol the vile on Wednesday, August 27, 2008 7:27 AM
Badger 200

 

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: Sydney, Australia
Posted by Phil_H on Wednesday, August 27, 2008 7:23 AM

Yep, generally, if it has a separate adjustment to set the needle, it is a single-action brush.

What brand/model airbrush is it? That way we can tell you for sure.

  • Member since
    April 2008
  • From: Philadelphia PA
Posted by smeagol the vile on Wednesday, August 27, 2008 7:18 AM
Oh, so the one I have, I have to unscrew the back (moving the needle) to change the spray, thats a single action?

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Massachusetts
Posted by ajlafleche on Wednesday, August 27, 2008 7:13 AM
In a single action AB, the "trigger" controls only the volume of the air flow by drepressing it. To adjust the paint stream, you must loosen the nozzle separately. In a dual action, the trigger controls the air flow the same way, but adjusts the amount of paint by pulling it back, which moves the needle back to allow a greater amount of paint to flow through, Thus, you can adjust the width of a line with one finger.

Remember, if the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy.

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: Sydney, Australia
Posted by Phil_H on Wednesday, August 27, 2008 7:11 AM

On a single-action airbrush, the paint flow is pre-set. Pressing the trigger starts the airflow and the paint flows at the pre-set rate. Releasing the trigger stops the airflow and paint flow at the same time. The trigger only controls the air, hence "single action"

On a double-action airbrush, the trigger controls both that airflow and the paint flow. Typically, pressing the button down starts the airflow and pulling back on the trigger varies the paint flow. Returning the trigger to the full-forward position stops the paint flow, and the air only stops when the trigger is fully released.  The trigger controls both air and paint, hence "double action".

  • Member since
    April 2008
  • From: Philadelphia PA
Posted by smeagol the vile on Wednesday, August 27, 2008 7:04 AM
What is the difference between a single and dual action AB?  Im not even sure what the 'action!' is

 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Central USA
Posted by qmiester on Wednesday, August 27, 2008 5:41 AM

Phil,

It's called "Latent Heat of Vaporization" - When you compress a gas, heat is formed (don't touch the copper/aluminum outlet tube between the compressor head to the air tank when the compressor is working - it's very hot).  When you release the gas, the gas and the area around the outlet point is cooled.  The higher the pressure and the smaller the outlet is increases the amount of cold created. 

And I agree whole heartedly withe EasyMike.  Start with something simple (like a good single action airbrush) and master it.  Then move up to a double action.  I have two airbrushes, an old Binks Wren single action that I learned the basics with and a Paasche Vl double action that I continue to learn on. Think about it, if you were learning to fly which airplane would you start with?  A Lear 35 or a Cessna 150/152?

Quincy
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Massachusetts
Posted by ajlafleche on Tuesday, August 26, 2008 1:55 PM

 TacoBuff wrote:
and since i'm just using it to spray OD, and earth colors, sounds like the single action will do fine for now.  As for the compressor...well considering i have $12 in my wallet, it can wait.

Again, not knowing which Badger you have makes it hard to give advice, but I'm going to guess it's that under $20 plastic one. That is marginal even for single colors. My first airbrush was a Paasche H the cost about $40 in 1982. hasn't gone up that much in price. I could get near masked line looks freehanding without a mask. It was a singel action.

Reread all the posts about a compressor. Yes, it's a big investment, but I've had my Sears 1/10 hp for something over 20 years. Cost about a hundred bucks. That's the equivaleent of about half a can of Propel a year.

If you can't afford a compressor, consider either saving for one (and for a real airbrush, too). If money is really that tight for you, and with your being a student, I can understand that, maybe taking a break or lowering your expectations would be in order. Refine your rattle can skills by painting in quick light passes.

Remember, modeling is a hobby. There's an expectation with this, as with any hobby, that you have discretionary income.

Remember, if the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy.

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Tuesday, August 26, 2008 12:26 PM
A cheaper alternative to a compressor is an air tank.  There's also a spare tire adapter out there somewhere too... With some imagination and little time in the plumbing shop messing with fittings, you can rig a system for about 30 bucks... Then you just need a nearby filling station for air...

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: Sydney, Australia
Posted by Phil_H on Tuesday, August 26, 2008 2:12 AM

Another thing I will suggest is to not get hung up about exact thinning ratios. There's no magical "one size fits all" number when it comes to thinning, which is why most people suggest thinning to approximately the same consistency as milk.

Think about it... Paint viscosity can vary between different colours, even within the same bottle as it ages. Metallic colours can require more thinning than "plain" colours.

I've found Tamiya acrylics to be very flexible as far as thinning is concerned, and if I were to put a number on it, I use anywhere from 50% (ie. 1:1) to 80% (4:1) thinner without it losing adhesion.

Why the big variation in thinning? When painting single-colour base coats, I like to use multiple thin layers and build up colour depth to what I want. Other times, when I want more coverage (eg. secondary colours in camo schemes) I'll use less thinning. It all depends on what you're trying to achieve, and to an extent, knowing how it's going to go through your airbrush. This can only come through experience.

As far as Tamiya OD is concerned, it's a funny animal. Tamiya OD has two main pigments, a heavier brown and a lighter green. In use, as soon as you stop mixing, the brown begins to settle to the bottom. If you work too slowly, you may find the first areas you airbrush will tend toward brown and the later areas toward green - almost a two-colour camo without changing paint. Remember to stop and stir the paint regularly and all will be well. 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Right side of the Front row.
Posted by kirk4010 on Monday, August 25, 2008 10:52 PM

I thin my tamiya paints at about 70/30 or maybe 60/40 ,  IE 70% pain to 30% thinner.  You'll know when you have the right ratio, it sprays great.  It is the hardest part of air brushing, getting the right ratio.  You just have to start playing around with your mixtures.  After a while you'll find your mixing and painting in a flash.  But I do remember those days, stick with it and don't get frustrated.

 

 

The art of war is simple enough. Find out where your enemy is. Get at him as soon as you can. Strike him as hard as you can, and keep moving.-Ulysses S. Grant
  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: Sydney, Australia
Posted by Phil_H on Monday, August 25, 2008 8:37 PM

Tacobuff,

Propellant cans are ok at a pinch, but...

If you're just starting out with an airbrush, it may take two to three cans of the stuff to get a feel for your airbrush and figure things out, like how thin to make your paint, how to set your airbrush to get different effects etc. etc.

The really restrictive thing about propellant cans are that it's near impossible to make fine adjustments to your air pressure. For fine detail work, you will need to be able to back the air pressure down, something that you can't really do with the propel cans. It's somewhat analagous to trying to water seedlings with a fire hose.

Another thing about propel cans is that the pressure drops as soon as you start using it. A propel can works because the liqiud form of the propellant has a very low boiling point (much lower than room temp). As gas is released from the can, it draws heat away from it. As the temperature of the can decreases it becomes more difficult for the gas to "boil" out of the liqufied propellant. Eventually it will drop far enough that your airbrush won't pick up paint. At this point, your air can will be very cold, covered with a layer of condensation or frost.

How long does this take to happen? As little as three minutes of continuous use.

You will then have to wait for the can to return to ambient temperature before you can proceed. You can speed this up by standing the can in a basin of warm (NOT hot) water.

Knowing that you have a limited working time may tempt you to try to work fast to beat the "timeout" - this doesn't help the situation.

You will make mistakes, you will miss spots, you will get frustrated.

The moment you hook up your airbrush to a compressor, dial back the pressure and turn it on, I guarantee you will be grinning and saying to yourself "wow - this is what airbrushing is all about".

As for other tips, I'll add this one:

Multiple thin coats are much better than single thick coats.

The one pass, haul *** rule does not apply to airbrushing.

Models are three dimensional structures. There are recesses, protruberances and changes in angles and radiuses. An airbrush directs a stream of paint from a single direction - if the stream of paint encounters a solid object, it stops, simple as that.

So you must remember to fill in areas where the paint hasn't reached. I've seen examples where simple things as small as handles or raised hinges have blank areas behind them where they have "masked" a second colour of a camo scheme.

Most important of all, practice.

  • Member since
    April 2008
  • From: Philadelphia PA
Posted by smeagol the vile on Monday, August 25, 2008 6:06 PM
Heres a good tip I learned the hard way, spray the dark colors LAST.  Spray the light ones first, over your light primer...  Every try and paint yellow, over black, OMG IT HELL

 

  • Member since
    March 2008
  • From: Colorado
Posted by TacoBuff on Monday, August 25, 2008 4:42 PM

thank you all for your quick responses.  This will help greatly.

and since i'm just using it to spray OD, and earth colors, sounds like the single action will do fine for now.  As for the compressor...well considering i have $12 in my wallet, it can wait.

any other tips you may have would be greatly appreciated.

  • Member since
    March 2008
  • From: The Bluegrass State
Posted by EasyMike on Monday, August 25, 2008 2:22 PM

You do not need a dual action air brush.  A single action air brush works just fine and is easier to use.  You do not need a compressor, but you're going to want one.  Canned propellant is okay for your first one or two models, but you'll get tired of the expense real quick.

Keep the air brush you have.  Spring for a compressor.

Smile [:)]

  • Member since
    April 2008
  • From: Philadelphia PA
Posted by smeagol the vile on Monday, August 25, 2008 12:16 AM

Yes, get a compressor.  I had the same dilemma a few what, weeks ago?  Just do the math, lets say you get a compressor online for 70 bucks,  a can of air is 10, takes 5 min of good AB to kill the can, thats 35 min and you spent as much as the compressor.  I have a compressor now, and its the best investment into this hobby I have ever made, a better investment then the AB itself.

My ab is a Badger 200, for a comparison.

 

Other questions I forgot!! BAHH!!!

Ok here we goes,  You need to think your paint, so that when you mix it there is no thick goop globs of paint on your mixing stick (I use toothpicks), you want it thin and runny.

You put the paint in ze cup, attach the cup to ze airbrush, attach hose to ze airbrush, turn screw on canned air, and press ze button, paint sprys out!

 

seriously, you will see such a difference, you have such controll with the AB, spray cans, I used them not to long ago, the paints so thick, not thinned well, covers a large area, no fine touch.  The ab, its just, absolutley amazing compared to rattle cans.

Consistancy of milk means how it would pour out, how thick it is.  If you look at a glass of water, a glass of milk... and uh... a glass of maple syrup (glass of syrup every day with your breakfast kid!)  The water pours fast, and is really thin, the milk is thin, but not as much as the water, the syrup is really not thin and pours slowly.  Some paint, like model masters and testors, start out with the consistancy of the syrup, ugh.  You want it like milk, to much thinner and its like water (did it with a flat black the other day, ugh)

 

  • Member since
    June 2008
Posted by scrambler8 on Sunday, August 24, 2008 10:57 PM

Lots of questions... But I'm glad to see that you are going to give AB's a try.

First, go and buy a compressor. Do not use the canned air! You will regret it and they will only reinforce your less than positive attitude towards the air brush. You can find a compressor with a storage tank and regulator for as little as $75.00. All you need to add is a water trap -available from home improvement stores fore about $15.00 - and you have all that you need.

Personally, I'm not a big fan of single action suction feed AB's, but it's still a big step above the rattle cans. By the way, what Badger AB do you have? They make many great brushes and a few cheapos. The cheap ones - as well as those by others - will only add to your frustration.

As for Tamiya paint... I use it 85% of the time. I mix it as close as I can get to 1 measure of paint to 1 measure of Tamiya thinner. I find that it sprays very well. Practice some with your AB and pressure settings (That's why you MUST HAVE a compressor and regulator). You will find that there are different distances and pessure settings that are necessary, depending on what you are trying to achieve. Give it a fair chance and I believe that you will find that your airbrush (AB) is the best way to paint models - and much cheaper in the long run.

  • Member since
    March 2008
  • From: Colorado
How the heck do you use this?
Posted by TacoBuff on Sunday, August 24, 2008 7:51 PM

I attempted using an airbrush about a year ago, and was throughly unsatisfied with the results.

Now, I need to use one (it pains me to say it) for future projects/ the price of spray cans is taking a serious dent out of my already limited model building funds.

So... I need help.  I have a badger single action airbrush, with a clear glass bottle thing for the paint holder (?).  I also have a can of propellant since compressors are ungodly expensive in my town. 

I'd like to use Tamiya acrylics, and have the appropriate thinner.  I've read it needs to be the "consistency of milk," but that really doesn't make sense to me (isn't it all liquid?).

Thank you all for your patience.

EDIT:  Pictorials are always helpful

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