Absolute MUST have brushes?

Hi Alex,

They should hold up just fine if looked after properly. Regular treatment with the brush soap/conditioner helps.

I would suggest going with the size 0 and 3/0, but hold off on the smaller sizes until you have used the first two - you may find that the 3/0 may be sufficient for fine detail work.

The smaller sizes are finer, yes, but they are primarily intended for use with water colours/inks which flow more freely than model paints. When used with model paints the smaller sizes don't hold a lot of paint, and (particularly with acrylics) the paint can skin or dry out on the brush very quickly, making them difficult to use. 

Phil_H wrote:

Hi Alex, It's a fact that using any solvent (alcohols can be among the worst) will strip the natural oils from the bristles.  One thing that you can do after cleaning to help restore them is to gently massage some hair conditioner (the same stuff you use on your head) into the brush, leave it to sit for 2-3 minutes and then rinse it well. There are commercial "brush conditioners" available from art supply shops, but these can be expensive (but then again. so can the brushes).

So, I'm looking at getting 10/0, 5/0, 000, and 0 Windsor & Newton round kolinsky sable brushes, as well as this stuff:

http://www.duall.com/store/product/114947.114961/brush-soap-on-blister-card.html

I paint using Model master enamels, Model master acyrlics, Tamiya acrylics, and the occasional Windsor & Newton oil for wood streaking.  I typically use lacquer thinner for cleaning my brushes...will the Sable brushes with the brush soap hold up to my typical uses?

Thanks!

Cheers,
Alex

Bioya wrote:

Went to the art suppy store to check out their brush selection this AM. Talk about sticker shock, wow. They must be made out of Can'taffordium.

Salesman: You want to dip them in paint? Are you crazy?

Hi Alex,

It's a fact that using any solvent (alcohols can be among the worst) will strip the natural oils from the bristles. 

One thing that you can do after cleaning to help restore them is to gently massage some hair conditioner (the same stuff you use on your head) into the brush, leave it to sit for 2-3 minutes and then rinse it well. There are commercial "brush conditioners" available from art supply shops, but these can be expensive (but then again. so can the brushes).

Matthew Usher wrote:

Oh, and I always like to add that while "red sable" brushes are very good, don't let the fancy-sounding name fool you. "Red sable" bristles come from weasles. Really! Look it up! Matt

Hey Matt,

At least it's a similar animal, unlike the old favourite "camel hair" brush where the hairs can come from a pony, bear, squirrel or almost anything in between.

New Hampshire wrote:

Hey Phil, Believe it or not, the prices I am looking at online (a little under $7 a piece) is something I don't mind.  I guess I am looking at it like I spent about $175 for my airbrush set up (with brush and compressor) so the $7 price tag each for a half dozens brushes to start, and more spread out over the long run, does not really put me off at all. Thanks again everyone this has been very informative! Brian

Hi Brian,

$7.00 a piece is a good place to start. That's a reasonable, but not scary price.

Just out of interest's sake I priced a set of four Winsor & Newton Series 7 brushes in the sizes I quoted above and it came to approx. $130.00 (AUD) from a local supplier,

Went to the art suppy store to check out their brush selection this AM. Talk about sticker shock, wow. They must be made out of Can'taffordium. In the same shopping center is a Michaels. Very nice selection, much better prices (for some of the same brands). I'll wait for their 40% off coupon and then buy. Thanks for the advice.

I have 14 Testors brushes that will be banished to the garage. I can use them for car projects and applying flux to solder joints. Yes, they laugh at lacquer thinner and nuclear radiation.

As luck had it Squadron.com carrys the Kolinski Red Sable brushes.  Since I had a bunch of stuff I needed to order anyways I bought right from them.  I could not find any Kolinski 1/8 or 1/4 flat brushes, but I did procure one eah of 3/0, 0, 2 and 4.  So it is a start!

Brian

Oh, and I always like to add that while "red sable" brushes are very good, don't let the fancy-sounding name fool you. "Red sable" bristles come from weasles.

Really! Look it up!

Matt

Phil_H wrote:

Hi Brian, If you haven't looked at "quality" brushes before, you may experience some "sticker shock" when you see the prices of the better red/Kolinsky sable brushes. However, they're worth it and will last for many years if they are well looked after. I would suggest, if you are going to be using them for detail painting (as you have an airbrush for "wide area" painting), in round (pointed) brushes, a size 4, 2, 0 and 000. You can easily paint eyebrows on a 1/35 scale figure with a good 000 brush. Matt's suggestion of a "liner" above is a good one too.

Hey Phil,

Believe it or not, the prices I am looking at online (a little under $7 a piece) is something I don't mind.  I guess I am looking at it like I spent about $175 for my airbrush set up (with brush and compressor) so the $7 price tag each for a half dozens brushes to start, and more spread out over the long run, does not really put me off at all.

Thanks again everyone this has been very informative!

Brian

If I recall, there was an issue of FSM about 6 or 7 years ago about buying paintbrushes and what to look for and so forth. It definitely would be a good primer for anyone not terribly familiar with all that's out there in the line of paintbrushes.

Certainly bypass hobby shops and go stright to art supply shops for paintbrushes.

If you like to simulate worn paint, abraded as opposed to chipped paint effects, then a flat hog hair brush of about 1/8'' width is indespensible for drybrushing such effects onto wing leading edges and prop blades. It also comes in very handy when showing similar wear on cockpit consoles. It makes controling the severity of the paint wear quite easy. As hog hair is quite stiff, it also works well to simulate random scratches around the abraded region. The key to usuing a hog hair brush effectively for that is to cut its bristles back to about 1/4" or so in length so they are even stiffer.

I learned a lot about brushes from my art school days and two of the best brands are:

Windsor & Newton 

Daler Rowney 

I was loyal to both brands through art school and into professional life and I was never once let down by them, both brands are quality in spades. 

I have a plethora of Tamiya brushes I use for most things. I even have a couple of Testors brushes. One I use for applying decals, the other I use to clean my airbrush.

When I have serious work that needs done I have a couple of Windsor and Newton brushes, 00 and 000 red sable. They work well, have razor points and hold lots of paint providing it's thinned properly. Kind of pricey though. I paid right at $27 for the pair after tax, IIRC. But I wont have to replace them after a couple of months. Tamiya brushes don't hold up for nuthin.

Phil_H wrote:

Hi Brian, If you haven't looked at "quality" brushes before, you may experience some "sticker shock" when you see the prices of the better red/Kolinsky sable brushes. However, they're worth it and will last for many years if they are well looked after. I would suggest, if you are going to be using them for detail painting (as you have an airbrush for "wide area" painting), in round (pointed) brushes, a size 4, 2, 0 and 000. You can easily paint eyebrows on a 1/35 scale figure with a good 000 brush. Matt's suggestion of a "liner" above is a good one too.

Well said!

The brushes that I bought for quite a lot of money back in the 1970s are still serving me well. I've got a hefty collection of them in all styles and sizes. I shudder to think of how much it would put me back if I purchased them all at once. Theres a few that are cheapos for doing utilitarian things like applying weathering streaks and dusting out cockpits and wheel wells and such.

For brush painting, I have a set for metallic paints and one for all the rest. The particles of metal seem to contaminate regular paint even after thorough cleaning. 

Do you want to know a little secret?  When I was 12, I made a little tiny homemade paint brush using the skills I learned by tying dry flys (for fishing) out of a round toothpick and some medium quality bristles from a water color brush. It's used on every build for the extra tiny work on pilots and instrument panels to this day. It's invaluable! It does jobs that not even my most expensive, really small, store bought ones can do.

Hi Brian,

If you haven't looked at "quality" brushes before, you may experience some "sticker shock" when you see the prices of the better red/Kolinsky sable brushes. However, they're worth it and will last for many years if they are well looked after.

I would suggest, if you are going to be using them for detail painting (as you have an airbrush for "wide area" painting), in round (pointed) brushes, a size 4, 2, 0 and 000. You can easily paint eyebrows on a 1/35 scale figure with a good 000 brush. Matt's suggestion of a "liner" above is a good one too.

Matthew Usher wrote:

Brian, I have a whole bunch of brushes from various manufacturers. I have some high-end ones and plenty of garden-variety ones from when the art-supply store has a sale. All of them are useful. One of my favorite brushes is a "liner." It has a fine point, but long bristles. The brush will let you do fine work, and the long bristles hold a lot of paint in reserve. Think of a molded-in harness on a 1/48 scale aircraft seat. You'd be able to paint the whole thing in one pass (without having to reload the paint) but you'd still be able to control the fine tip. I guess my best advice would be to practice with different types/brands until you find what works best for you. All the best, Matt Usher

Excellent, I will indeed check them out, thank you!

Brian

Bioya wrote:

Matt - What brand is the "Liner"? Is that a commor designation for a brush? Do you know what the bristles are? Red Sable, sythetic, female moose nose hairs? My white handled Testors just aren't doing it.

Most brush makers make "liners" - it's just a design which has longer bristles than a "regular" pointed brush. Think of a 3/0 brush, but with bristles about 2x the length, coming to a needle-fine point. They are available in just about every bristle type, Sable, nylon, taklon etc.

OMG - you're using those white plastic handled Testors "make-up" brushes??? You would have better results snapping off a piece of sprue andf painting with that instead.

Brian,

I have a whole bunch of brushes from various manufacturers. I have some high-end ones and plenty of garden-variety ones from when the art-supply store has a sale. All of them are useful.

One of my favorite brushes is a "liner." It has a fine point, but long bristles. The brush will let you do fine work, and the long bristles hold a lot of paint in reserve.

Think of a molded-in harness on a 1/48 scale aircraft seat. You'd be able to paint the whole thing in one pass (without having to reload the paint) but you'd still be able to control the fine tip.

I guess my best advice would be to practice with different types/brands until you find what works best for you.

All the best,

Matt Usher

Hey everyone,

I do understand down the line the collection will expand, so a "Beginners" or "intro" list is what I was looking for.  So I will indeed check into the suggested brushes/sizes/hair type.  Thankfully we have a local art supply shop, so I should be able to find the Red Sable stuff there.

And EasyMike, right now I am into aircraft modeling, though ship and armor are probably going to happen at some point as well.

Brian

Depends on what you're painting and personal taste.  My list of must haves may not suit you.  Your list of must haves may not suit me.  Somewhere between my list and your list, we'll probably have a couple or three of the same.

I'll give you my recommendations which you can do with as you please .

I use only red sable brushes - and even further only Kolinsky sable. I have never found any brushes that works as well. If you have a Kolinsky red sable brush, the smallest size you need is 000. I also use Kolinsky sable flat brushes. For pointed (AKA round) I have a 000, and a 0. For flats I have 1/8" and 1/4" (AKA Filbert). The pointed ones I have are made by Winsor & Newton, and the flats are made by Escoda. Expensive? You bet they are, and they are worth every penny. I have tried many different sizes and materials but nothing can compete with the Koilnsky sable bruses. They hold lots of paint, yet you can control how much you put down. The bristles can be bent back over themselves and they spring right back to where they came from. Anyway, my philosophy is you get what you pay for.

Must haves - round 000, 0, flat (or filbert) 1/8" and 1/4"

My

P.S. You will likely have to go to an artists supply store to get really good brushes - most model shops don't carry them.

Rich

To answer your question, there are a couple you "should" have. However, it will be dependant on your needs further down the line. You may want to add more when the time comes.

To start with, I would have a 10/0, 5/0, and a 3/0 round tip brushes for smaller detail. I would also check into a 1/8" flat brush for broader applications. I would recommend either sable or nylon hair. That will withstand the paint and cleaners you will use. I recommend using laquer thinner to clean them. Decent brushes will run about $3 to $4 apiece but will last if you clean them well. I would check out you local Hobby Lobby or art store. This should get you started.

Andy