A little unhappy with Paasche right now....

Well Jesse, that kind of sucks.  It seems like Paasche's policy has been formulated by bottom-line bean counters without thinking about their reputation.  I'm sure they could easily be justify their position from an immediate monetary position, but from a long term perspective customer satisfaction should be more valued, particularly for a compressor that's only a couple of years old.  I would think that a much more reasonable policy would have been customer pays shipping back the compressor and maybe a nominal repair fee.

Oh, well I guess they saved some expenses this quarter in return for a dissatisfied customer.  Seems like a bad trade to me.  Good luck with your new compressor.      

Andy

Sorry to hear that Jesse.

Now you see why many of us recommend Badger products so often!

I guarantee you they would not do that to you.

I hear ya, Mike.  I bought a 100G from the Badger Garage Sale sometime back and I'm throughly impressed with it.  I'm waiting for the Garage Sale to open up again (the site's under construction) so that I can get another airbrush for broader coverages.  The 100G has that small cup on it which is great for most of my work except base coverages.  I have to refill the cup about 2 or 3 times.

I was thinking about getting the 200 for priming, base coating and clear finishes.  Do you think the 200 would preform well with this compressor?  The specs for the compressor are listed below:

Thanks,

Jesse

I know that Paasche has been around for over a century, and some love them, but I have never liked the feel of their airbrush designs in my hand.

Surprising that their customer service is so poor. As others have mentioned, Badger has never let me down either in performance, workmanship, or product support. I've only required assistance with an inquiry or two, as nothing I have purchased from Badger has failed me yet.....and we are talking about nearly 40 years in some instances.

Do you mean the Paasche H?  That's a great airbrush.  The compressor is what sucked.  Then again, I think most of the hobby compressors are made my one or two companies.  Then, these companies sell them to others who slap their name on them.  I've seen other companies compressors that look just like the Paasche D200 compressor. 

Jesse

I bought a Paasche VL, but it's not the airbrush I'm worried about.

When one buys a company's product, they don't just buy the product.  They also "buy" the company's policies, customer service practices, etc.

I'm still confident the airbrush will serve me just fine.

By the way, do their compressors and airbrushes have warranties?

Airbrushes are pretty durable so I won't worry about it.  Their compressors have a one year warranty.  The compressor I just bought has a two year warranty.

Jesse

usmc1371 wrote:

Airbrushes are pretty durable so I won't worry about it.  Their compressors have a one year warranty.  The compressor I just bought has a two year warranty. Jesse

Oh, well then I guess what Paasche said to you was reasonable afterall, even though maybe they could have cut you some slack.

I was thinking the compressor was still under warranty or something.

Just for kicks: Is paasche pronounced, "pash" or "pash-eh?"

usmc1371 wrote:

I'm waiting for the Garage Sale to open up again (the site's under construction) so that I can get another airbrush for broader coverages.  The 100G has that small cup on it which is great for most of my work except base coverages.  I have to refill the cup about 2 or 3 times.

You might be using an old link.  I just checked Badger's Garage Sale and if you scoll halfway down the page, they are offering a Model 200NH for $22.00! 

usmc1371 wrote:

I was thinking about getting the 200 for priming, base coating and clear finishes.  Do you think the 200 would preform well with this compressor?

Can't see why not.  I have a Badger 200NH that works perfectly with a smaller (1/10HP) tankless compressor. 

"Just for kicks: Is paasche pronounced, "pash" or "pash-eh?"

It's pash-A.

My D200 crapped out too but I used it hard for about two years. I took it apart and discovered it was made as a disposable. Stampings, pot metal, you know the drill. I nursed it until I could replace it. They are not for anything more than the occasional hobbiest.

MikeV wrote:

Sorry to hear that Jesse. Now you see why many of us recommend Badger products so often! I guarantee you they would not do that to you.

In the old days, Paasche imported a line of compressors in the under $200 range, made by Sparmax in Taiwan. It was very popular and were wonderful value for the money. Badger has a line of high end Super Quiet Series compressors in the $600 and above range. Alas, they are all gone.

This is one of Badger's current product line:

Compressors for cake decoration. No more Million/Billion-Air Compressors. Just X-Air.

Two years ago, Paasche switch their supplier from Sparmax to manufacturers in China. And we started hearing stories like Jesse's.

So far, the house brand compressors from Airbrush-depot, BearAir and Airbrush City seem to offer better values. Time will tell how well made they are. For a little more, the Sparmax brand and Iwata are still options for buyer who are willing to pay for it.

keilau wrote:

No more Million/Billion-Air Compressors. Just X-Air.

Are you saying Badger has discontinued the Milionaire, Billionaire and Trillionaire compressors?

MikeV wrote:

keilau wrote: No more Million/Billion-Air Compressors. Just X-Air.   Are you saying Badger has discontinued the Milionaire, Billionaire and Trillionaire compressors?

Not sure as a fact! But when Badger put in new products like the X-Air and not copy over the old products like the Milionaire, Billionaire and Trillionaire, I can take a hint. The current compressor list in the Badger web site do not have those super quiet line products anymore. You may want to contact Ken to find out the real story.

There are a lot more people painting cakes, nails, body/face, auto etc than plastic models. May be.

Chinese made products... I must say that I'm not impressed with them. At my company (we sell fire alarm systems) we've had the highest failure rate from components made in China. Personally, at the end of October, I bought a new snow blower and spent a decent amount of money, due to the size of my driveway. It was a Simplicity unit (owned by Snapper) and made in China. I used it three times and earlier this week, it crapped out. My dealer was good enough to send another new Simplicty unit that is a model year older, but alleged to be made here in the USA. I'm skeptical now about the brand. We'll see how it works.

It seems to me that that many companies feel it is better to import cheaply made goods to keep American consumers happy and shopping their brands. But, in the end, you get what you pay for. I'm not against foreign made products, I'd just rather buy fewer things and have a greater level of confidence that they will outlast me. A product can be made in Japan, Germany, the U.S. ... or China, and if it's well made and has a solid reputation, I'll buy it. Quality is worth a great deal in my opinion. I've got tools that my grandfathers owned (which dates most of those things back to the early 1920's) and they still provide good service to me about 90 years later. They're well made and are a pleasure to use. Right now, sitting in front of me, is a cobbler's hammer from the 1890's, with its original hickory handle. I use this tool all of the time for model projects. My wife, to my great annoyance, used to use it to pound meat and chicken. 

My point... buy a quality product, if it's an air compressor, air brush, or other tool. I know that at times, the thought of spending significantly more money on something that appears to be a great deal for $69.99 seems insane. But when you have to replace it a year or two later, what have you saved?  and then you have to replace the cheap unit you replaced the first cheap unit with a few years later, the hole only gets deeper. I have a Silentaire compressor that I bought. I saved for it and did without a few other things during that time. But I know it will last me the rest of the time that I'm building models.

Anyway, take it for what it's worth, but go and find a quality compressor. It will cost you more up front, but will save you tons on the backside.

scrambler8,

I agree 100%.  As a former carpenter, I know about quality tools.  Unfortunately, it can be hard to tell if a product was made in China or not before actually buying it.  I thought I was buying good by purchasing a Paasche product.  They've been an American company for 100 years.  The Paasche spray booth I have is great and so is my Paasche airbrush. 

 Jesse

While I completely agree with spending more to getting more, dismissing Chinese made goods as inferior might be indefensible. Likely the computer you posted your screed with was made in China.

Chinese made goods CAN be very high quality. It is not the assembler that makes quality parts, but the manufacturer of the part. Using cheap suppliers in order to keep your price down is what causes untimely failure.

Bgrigg,

 I didn't say I don't buy Chinsese made products. Buying and using them can't be avoided, given their ubiquity. What I did say, or meant to say, is that Chinese made products can be problematic. I stand firm with the opinion that many Chinese made products are not well made right now. There are many reasons for this: hurried production schedules, lower quality materials, poor design and, perhaps most importantly, American companies that foist cheap products on our markets - all the while telling us how much we're "saving."

I have no doubt that Chinese goods will improve in time. The industrial and social processes they are going through have been experienced before in the United State, Japan, Taiwan and South Korea, as well as many other countries. However, as they do improve, their prices will go up. When the prices go up, you can be sure that our trusty corporate leaders will waltz off to another destitute area of the world and tap its cheap labor for as long as they can.

In the meantime, I would be cautious about buying a cheap compressor, wherever it may come from. Penny wise and pound foolish... 

scrambler8 wrote:

My point... buy a quality product, if it's an air compressor, air brush, or other tool. I know that at times, the thought of spending significantly more money on something that appears to be a great deal for $69.99 seems insane. But when you have to replace it a year or two later, what have you saved?  and then you have to replace the cheap unit you replaced the first cheap unit with a few years later, the hole only gets deeper. I have a Silentaire compressor that I bought. I saved for it and did without a few other things during that time. But I know it will last me the rest of the time that I'm building models. Anyway, take it for what it's worth, but go and find a quality compressor. It will cost you more up front, but will save you tons on the backside.

I agree with your recommendation. But the big question is "IN WHOM WE TRUST". Take the compressor as an example. A few years ago, the Ding Hwa Co. in Taiwan established a reputation for quality by making compressors for Iwata and others for their economic line products and their own brand, Sparmax. Now, everyone are selling Sparmax look-alike made-in-China. I also saw some seller on Ebay advertising as made-in-Taiwan, not in-China. Unfortunately, those are just Taiwan imitations of unknown quality too.

One can still get the Badger Million-Air compressor quality by buying the SilentAire 20-A compressor. But most hobbyist will be reluntant to spend $500 on a compressor, (me included).

Many years ago, I bought the first Airbrush City compressor product (model no. 1000A) which was identical to the SilentAire Scorpion-I down to the last details. It worked very well for many years and is still going strong when I got the more powerful Paasche DA400 last year. I found a made-in-Taiwan model DA400 from the vendor's clearance lot last year. I hope that it will last me a few years. Time will tell.

It sounds like you are pretty aware of the real problem, which is the "necessity" of having to hit some calculator-punching bean counter's price point. Your example of having problems with Snapper is a good case in point. Jim Weir, the previous owner of Simplicity (which owns Snapper) fought Wal-Mart's heavy handed approach to suppliers by refusing to sell to them (The Man Who Said No to Wal-Mart). Sadly for him, his stance ended up costing him market share, for the American buying public would rather throw out a cheap lawn mower every year than pay for quality. He ended up selling to Briggs, who immediately said YES to Wal-Mart and hence your problems with a Chinese made Snapper. Sad, really.

keilau wrote:

One can still get the Badger Million-Air compressor quality by buying the SilentAire 20-A compressor. But most hobbyist will be reluntant to spend $500 on a compressor, (me included).

They are the same manufacturer..... Vannini in Italy makes them.

MikeV wrote:

keilau wrote: One can still get the Badger Million-Air compressor quality by buying the SilentAire 20-A compressor. But most hobbyist will be reluntant to spend $500 on a compressor, (me included). They are the same manufacturer..... Vannini in Italy makes them. ]

And the SilentAire 20-A compressor is cheaper at retail.

keilau wrote:

MikeV wrote:  keilau wrote: No more Million/Billion-Air Compressors. Just X-Air.   Are you saying Badger has discontinued the Milionaire, Billionaire and Trillionaire compressors? Not sure as a fact! But when Badger put in new products like the X-Air and not copy over the old products like the Milionaire, Billionaire and Trillionaire, I can take a hint. The current compressor list in the Badger web site do not have those super quiet line products anymore. You may want to contact Ken to find out the real story. There are a lot more people painting cakes, nails, body/face, auto etc than plastic models. May be.

You are correct Keilau. 

I asked Ken if they discontinued them and he sent me this: 

yes we have for the most part - we sold so few last year it wasn't worth it to continue inventorying them - so as they've sold off we've discontinued the line.  Our engineer is working on a new less expensive Silent compressor design.  No time frame for completion on that though.

MikeV wrote:

MikeV wrote: Are you saying Badger has discontinued the Milionaire, Billionaire and Trillionaire compressors? You are correct Keilau.  I asked Ken if they discontinued them and he sent me this:  yes we have for the most part - we sold so few last year it wasn't worth it to continue inventorying them - so as they've sold off we've discontinued the line.  Our engineer is working on a new less expensive Silent compressor design.  No time frame for completion on that though.

Sad but understandable. I hope that Badger will stay strong in business and bring us innovative products such as the Renegade. The only dominate mid range market compressor in the US is Iwata now.

I was intrigued by the Revell compressor line in Europe and UK. The Kompressor "Standard Class" and Kompressor "Master Class" are equivalent to the Iwata Power Jet Lite and Power Jet in spec, but only 60% of the US retail price of Iwata items at Wonderland Models in UK. It is even more remarkable since the Briton usually pays twice as much for Badger/Iwata/Paasche AB compared to US. You may want to suggest Ken to look into sourcing similar items for the US market.

These products will be a good plug between the SilentAire super quiet line and the under $200 AB compressors.

Good shopping, Tinz!  $20 for a Badger 180-1 is a steal!  I've had mine for six or seven years, and it has been great.   The only real drawback is the lack of an on/off switch, easily alleviated by plugging into a power strip.  In my case I got around  that by building a custom paint booth with a switched power outlet.  Although there is a slight pulsating from the airstream if there is no airbrush attached, that pulsating goes away once an airbrush is attached with the airflow being is nice and steady through the airbrush.

I certainly paid a wee bit more for mine, but I think it has turned out the be a good investment.

Andy

I've been using a small Badger compressor for over 20 years with no problems.  I don't know what type it is but it does pulsate, and stops pulsating when airbrush is attached.  Has a fair amount of vibration but it rests on two soft foam pads with drilled-in sticks to keep it from moving around.  No problems whatsoever, for over 20 years!!

But for an airbrush I use the Paasche-H.  No problems whatsoever for over 20 years!!

~Dave

Little story about aircompressors - about 25 years ago a buddy of mine decideded to start an aircraft maintenance shop and asked me to go to work for him (he didn't have his AI at the time).  So there's three of us rattling around in an old military hanger and the only air we have is an ancient portable 110 volt, 3 hp compressor w/a 40 gallon tank (and about 300' of 1/2 inch airhose).  And of course, Tim and I (the worker bees) were soon complaining to K (El Leader) that this wasn't going to work.  Eventually K informs us that he had taken care of the problem and the new aircompressor would be arriving in a few days.

About 4 days latter, just about quitting time, up drives our Snap-On dealer.  He opens the doors to his van and inside, in all its bright red glory is a 15 hp, 220 v air compressor with a 120 gallon tank and the Snap-On logo in 6 in high letters down the side.  K runs next door to the paint shop to borrow their little fork lift and invite the folks there to come view our latest aquisition.  Meanwhile Tim and I are agreeing that K probably gotten a little carried away cause we both figured that red paint job and black logo had probably increased the price of the thing by about 50%.

A little later, after we got the thing unloaded, uncrated and put where it was to reside, Bob, the owner of the paint shop, asked me to stop by his shop before I went home.  He showed me his new compressor which he had purchased a couple of months before.  Other than the fact it was metalic green and had no fancy logo on it, it was an exact twin for the compressor we had just unloaded next door.  In fact, we discovered the next day that both compressors had a small metal tag on the back from a Taiwanese (sp) mfg with the Mfgs name, compressor model and serial number on it.  Both were made by the same Mfg and were the same model.  Bob's set him back about $1100 or so while K spent $2500 on his.  And the warrenties and guarantees on both were exactly the same.  Just a lesson on how a pretty paint job and a big logo will often get you screwed.