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Tamiya Acrylic - Brush Issues

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  • Member since
    February 2009
Tamiya Acrylic - Brush Issues
Posted by ChuckBurbank on Friday, February 6, 2009 7:54 PM
Im new and I have been working on this for about a week. Ive read every post I could find and tried many variations. Im still not getting a decent result. Last night I TRIED to do a test and resolve the issue for myself by decanting Flat Black into 5 separate plastic containers. Each container had a different amount of Tamiya thinner. None, 1 drop, 2 drop, until 50-50 combination.

 The best results were with no thinner at all (but still not good). The more thinner the worse it got. Even the "Dip in thinner then in the color technique didnt work". So I thought maybe it was the brushes.

I first started using Sable brushes that came in a pack. Then I went and bought nicer ($8 each) brushes. The nicest ones I could find were synthetic something by Princeton. These had the worst results of all. Meaning I really understood how important brush type is to this. Basically they just pushed the pigment around. They look nice have great ergonomic handles, and the bristles are pristine. They barely even spread. I guess this is actually the problem with them but I dont know. Maybe Im so supposed to break em in? Ha I have no idea.

 So I am at a complete loss. Basically when not thinned the paint really really looks "Brushed on" Like the results from white out on paper. The more thinner I use the more pigment tents to group up in sections.

I know everybody is going to ask about weather. I live in Los Angeles so I dont thing it should really be an issue.

I almost ran out to get an airbrush but I am trying to learn the steps slowly and concentrate on the basics. This is really about getting my god children involved for me, so while I will get an airbrush once I get some basics down I really would like to have the fundamentals of brushing so I can teach them.

P.S. Windex is amazing!!! Its like time travel - Spray it on and its like you never painted before. ;-)

 

Thank you guys for any advise you might have.

 

  • Member since
    June 2006
  • From: Westerville, Ohio
Posted by Air Master Modeler on Friday, February 6, 2009 8:40 PM

Tamiya acrylic paint will flow better brushing if you add a few drops of dish soap to it. Dish soap contains glycol which is alone is a paint retarder and dish soap aslo breaks the tension of the paint to allow smoother brush painting with most any brand acrylic hobby paints.

Give it a try,

Rand

30 years experience building plastic models.

WIP: Revell F-14B Tomcat, backdating to F-14A VF-32 1989 Gulf Of Sidra MiG-23 Killer "Gypsy 207".

  • Member since
    November 2008
Posted by deadhead on Friday, February 6, 2009 9:14 PM

Are you washing the parts before you attempt to paint? Without a picture I would guess the paint isn't adhering to the plastic well and forming "bare" spots? This is a sign of something on the plastic that is not allowing the paint to adhere.

 

Will

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: Left forever
Posted by Bgrigg on Friday, February 6, 2009 9:51 PM

Acrylic paints, especially Tamiya, surface dry very, very fast. However, they take a fairly long time to cure. Brush painting with Tamiya is almot an art, and adding glycerin or other retarding agent certainly helps. BTW Tamiya brand thinner contains a retarder.

However, what helps the most is to realize that wet brushing onto recently "dried" areas will roll up the paint because it reactivates the paint. My technique is to use speed and short strokes and allow for very little overlap. That way the paint doesn't have time to surface dry before the next brush stroke.

No matter how good you get at brush painting, airbrushing will blow your mind. They're a huge investment in money (airbrush, compressor, respirators, filters, fans and a spray booth can easily set you back $400+), as well as time learning to use them, but the results are very much worth it.

So long folks!

  • Member since
    February 2009
Posted by ChuckBurbank on Friday, February 6, 2009 10:53 PM
Thanks for replying folks. The parts were washed/soaked in warm water and soap. I had read in other posts about the dish washing soap trick but I haven't really had any issues with drying personally so I didnt try it. I will try that tonight and see if that helps. Adding any thinner actually makes things worse for me so I will try dish soap and paint together tonight.

I would post pictures but figuring that out will be its own project. ;-)

I am starting to think that I am expecting too much from the brush. Meaning at the end of the day there is a reason people use airbrushes. Using paint without thinner(my best combination) is "bearable" meaning it ends up looking like the wall that has been painted with a roller in terms of how "Un-perfect" it looks. The problem is these things are so small that you look at them so closely you can tell. At arms length however, its usable.

I am sure with talent and practice it is possible to get great results. I have seen many examples on this forum. However generally speaking I believe I am asking too much of the brush and myself. So I think you are right, I need to get an airbrush if I want results better than the ones that I am getting.

On a positive note:
Drybrushing works great for me - I love that trick as much as I love Windex ;-)
  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Bridgeview, Illinois
Posted by mg.mikael on Saturday, February 7, 2009 12:25 AM
 Bgrigg wrote:

Acrylic paints, especially Tamiya, surface dry very, very fast. However, they take a fairly long time to cure. Brush painting with Tamiya is almot an art, and adding glycerin or other retarding agent certainly helps. BTW Tamiya brand thinner contains a retarder.

Sign - Ditto [#ditto] For this reason I try to limit brush painting with Tamiya acrylics. If you brush paint large surfaces, I recommend ModelMaster Acrylics, they have a much better selection of colors and you don't have that "curdling" problem. Once you try ModelMaster acrylics you won't go back.Cool [8D]

"A good plan executed now is better than a perfect plan next week." - George S. Patton

  Photobucket 

  • Member since
    October 2005
  • From: Maryland
Posted by usmc1371 on Saturday, February 7, 2009 8:17 AM

It might take two or three coats to get coverage.  Are you expecting to only have to apply one coat?  When I brush paint with Tamiya, it usually takes three coats or maybe more depending on the color.  I also try to keep the coats thin.

I would agree that Model Master Acryl paints brush paint better, but I like Tamiya for airbrushing.

-Jesse

  • Member since
    January 2009
Posted by forsigmar on Saturday, February 7, 2009 1:10 PM
I had the exact same question.  I just started to try models after years of painting Warhammer fantasy figures.  The Citadel paints are perfect for brushing.  I was discouraged after trying to brush with Tamiya paints.  I tried thinning with thinner but I found that using water was easier for brushing.  I have read many places that the Tamiya paints are meant for airbrushing so I just ordered a Badger 155 to give it a try.
  • Member since
    February 2009
Posted by ChuckBurbank on Monday, February 9, 2009 7:50 PM

Thanks for the feedback folks. Actually - I did assume it was a one coat job. Confused [%-)]

 

Sorry, I should have taken that into account. I will try that next.

 Having said that - adding thinner for me (The more thinner the worse) just seperates pigment from liquid. So mulitiple coats would probably look like multiple coats of uglyness.

Having practiced this week, it appears that my best combination thus far is straight paint, loading the brush heavily, painting lightly and trying not to go over the same section repeatedly. The results are ok for interior, wheel wells, etc. I would not try a complete model this way though.

I have also, commited to going the airbrush route. Not that I wont continue to practice with a brush and working on this issue, but spray canning the exterior is not something I would really really like to continue. The only thing holding me back so far is where to do it. In the garage where its cold/hot/boring(No TV Radio etc) or indoors (Where I would need to worry about SprayBooth and Exaust etc)

So thank you all again. I will continue to try and test your recommendations and get to the bottom of this.I realize this is not an overnight thing and will requiere some dedication. 

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: Sydney, Australia
Posted by Phil_H on Monday, February 9, 2009 8:05 PM

It does sound rather strange. Tamiya acrylics (well, apart from white, red and yellow) have rather dense pigment loads and usually take thinning quite well.

I've used Tamiya acrylics for over 25 years and have never experienced "separation" like you have described - it almost sounds like an incompatibility of sorts. Are you using the correct Tamiya thinner (X-20A)?

 

  • Member since
    February 2009
Posted by ChuckBurbank on Monday, February 9, 2009 8:39 PM

Yes sir. I am using the tamiya thinner. I am completely convinced its user error and not fault of the product.Poorly stired, wrong brush, bad technique, purchased a bad batch of paint, 100 other things.

Considering my troubles thus far, I am having a great time doing this. I especially like the painting process. I am more intruiged by learning to paint the objects realisticly than by having the model itself if that makes sense.

 So I will continue to move forward. The best part of this is the use of Windex. HA! I can practice, windex and start again. Its awesome. I love it. That in itself is a great reason to love the paint.

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