My Polly Scale Nightmare

Yeah, I am running the polly scale at about 1:1, shooting at 10-ish psi from very close range (2-3 inches).  I use a Badger 100LG with the medium needle.  It dose a nice mist at that mix and psi if I back off, so overall, I am happy now, and have a few vehicles that will be getting UP armor yellow this week!

Chris

Killjoy wrote:

With Tamiya I like really thin paint, so I can build it up in layers.  Usually close to 1:1, but 2:1 at most.  I tend to thin more with alcohol than with the Tamiya thinner.  Don't know why, it just works for me. Glad you have a partial working soultion as well!  Good luck! Chris

So did you use this same mixing method of 1 part paint to 1 part thinner for the Polly? Thinning it way down seems to be the key.

With Tamiya I like really thin paint, so I can build it up in layers.  Usually close to 1:1, but 2:1 at most.  I tend to thin more with alcohol than with the Tamiya thinner.  Don't know why, it just works for me.

Glad you have a partial working soultion as well! 

Good luck!

Chris

Killjoy wrote:

BUMP!  Ok, I have a working solution.  This may seem rediculously simple, but when I brought this issue up at my last IPMS meeting, someone suggested Tamiya thinner.  I was hesitant to try this after the goop that using alcohol created, but I did, and it flowed like a champ! Holy crud Batman!  Also my LHS finally stocked testor's thinner, so I tried some of that as well.  Also worked very well, but the Tamiya thinner is clearly a winner in my book!  So glad I gave it one last shot.  I had about 8 jars of paint I was getting really close to launching into low earth orbit if this didn't work. Chris

Hey Chris,

Glad that worked for you. Like I said a while back, I did try the Tamiya thinner, but didn't have any luck except for with the flat clear. Aside from that, I too have had some success, but it's come down to the point where I have to thin the paint almost to the point of water colors. For 1 part paint I think I mixed at least half of that with water and then added a little of the Testors acrylic thinner on top of that. It wasn't perfect, but it's much better. So how about you? What was your thinning ratio when using the Tamiya?

BUMP!  Ok, I have a working solution.  This may seem rediculously simple, but when I brought this issue up at my last IPMS meeting, someone suggested Tamiya thinner.  I was hesitant to try this after the goop that using alcohol created, but I did, and it flowed like a champ!

Holy crud Batman!  Also my LHS finally stocked testor's thinner, so I tried some of that as well.  Also worked very well, but the Tamiya thinner is clearly a winner in my book! 

So glad I gave it one last shot.  I had about 8 jars of paint I was getting really close to launching into low earth orbit if this didn't work.

Chris

Triarius wrote:

Most people have more trouble with "tip-dry" using Tamiya than with Polly Scale. I may call Testors tomorrow and see if they'll tell me whether they've changed formulations.

I rarley have problems shooting Tamiya or Gunze. I havent tried the Polly, but from what Im reading im not sure I want to.

Triarius wrote:

I just talked to the lab at Testors. The formulation hasn't changed (not even the suppliers) in the last five years except for the clear flat. Their tech was also scratching his head as to why you are having such a problem. He'll look into it from his end and call me if he finds out anything. I did come up with some other ideas. What compressor are you using? Is it oil-less? Compressor oil is death to acrylic paint, although Tamiya and Gunze are more resistant. Is there any possible source of contamination anywhere in your air source? —This includes the tank. If not drained properly you can get rust, mold, and other crud in your air, which can play hob with acrylic paints. Tamiya is highly forgiving of contaminants for an acrylic coating, Polly Scale (or any other Testors brand acrylic) is not.

Hey Ross,

Thanks a bunch for following up with Testors. I really do appreciate that. As for my compressor, I have the Iwata Smart Jet with an extra external tank attached to it. It also has an upgraded  bleed valve airflow adjustment that allows for even less condesation. I'm not sure about contamination, but I can say that the whole thing still looks and works like brand new. Probably only have about 25 hours of use into it if that.

I am running a campbell hausfeld compressor, 2 gallon size.  I have 2 oil/water separators, 1 right after the regulator, and 1 at my spray booth where my quick connects let me plug in various airbrushes.  My compressor is a few years old, but I drain the tank after every use, and rarely see any moisture when I do.

I shoot alot more than tamiya, and no other paint had given me problems so far.  While hardly a scientific analysis, I am comming to the conclusion, it's the paint!

I just talked to the lab at Testors. The formulation hasn't changed (not even the suppliers) in the last five years except for the clear flat. Their tech was also scratching his head as to why you are having such a problem. He'll look into it from his end and call me if he finds out anything.

I did come up with some other ideas.

What compressor are you using?

Is it oil-less? Compressor oil is death to acrylic paint, although Tamiya and Gunze are more resistant.

Is there any possible source of contamination anywhere in your air source? —This includes the tank. If not drained properly you can get rust, mold, and other crud in your air, which can play hob with acrylic paints. Tamiya is highly forgiving of contaminants for an acrylic coating, Polly Scale (or any other Testors brand acrylic) is not.

Centurion wrote:

Hey Rand, I did try adding the nail polish, but I'm not sure if I mixed the ratios correctly. I didn't notice any difference after the addition of it. I'd like to think it's the airbrushes fault, but the thing paints Tamiya like a charm.

I hear you on this one!  I am using two different badgers, you use an Iwata, both high quality airbrushes.  I can not pin this on the gun not performing, it's definitely something about the paint, the thinner, or the ratios involved.

If I didn't like the color range so much, and if there were any decent options for color choices in my local area besides this, I would have given up on polly scale already!

Air Master Modeler wrote:

I have been using Polly Scale exclusively with my Paasche H single action airbrush and have not had this problem with tip dry and clogging. I use both the medium #3 needle and larger #5 needle and get a consistant flow of paint with no tip dry at all. I am starting to think the airbrush your using is inconsistant with Polly Scale acrylic paints because it paints just fine through a single action airbrush. I use distilled water to thin and add a few drops of nail polish remover as a retarder and it works great. Also I always run a bit of Windex through the airbrush between spraying to keep the tip clear for the next session. Try adding a few drops of nail polish remover to the paint and see if this helps prevent the problems your having. I know it works for me.

Hey Rand,

I did try adding the nail polish, but I'm not sure if I mixed the ratios correctly. I didn't notice any difference after the addition of it. I'd like to think it's the airbrushes fault, but the thing paints Tamiya like a charm.

Killjoy wrote:

Continuing this discussion... I am using a badger 100Lg gravity feed with the medium needle.  I do have both a badger 200 single action, and a knock-off of a 350 single action, I have not tried these.  If I am going to use polly scale paint, I need the control of my double action. Initially, I get very good flow and spray.  Then it clogs the tip rapidly.  I don't use nail polish remover, and it doesn't sound like anything I'd like to atomize, but I do add a few drops of golden's acrylic retarder to my water before I thin with it. I am baffled by this because I have shot so many different types of paint through my brushes without problem.  Vallejo (both model air and reduced game color line), Tamiya, Auto Air, Goldens (both reduced fluid acrylic and airbrush line) as well as craft store paints thinned with future.  NOTHING has ever given me this much trouble.  I am going to try one last time Monday, and then into the bin with all this polly scale crap if I can't figure it out!

I am totally feeling your pain. I just completed another paint session and it wasn't perfect, but it was a little better. I think it's coming down to precision thinning and mixing ratios. I noticed a little better paint action when my thinning was 3 parts paint to 1 part thinner...exactly. The thinner was distilled water with a few drops of dish soap. Now it wasn't a perfect paint session, but it was a little better. I will continue to experiment and make sure that my ratios are exact each time. One thing that I consistantly notice is a buildup of paint on the tip. I'm not sure if this is considered dry tip or if paint just automatically collects there because it's in the line of fire. Anyhow, back to the labs!

By the way, this session was shot with my Iwata CR Revolution with .5mm tip instead of the CS Eclipse with a .35mm that I normally shoot with. I will try the Eclipse again with those same ratios.

Continuing this discussion...

I am using a badger 100Lg gravity feed with the medium needle.  I do have both a badger 200 single action, and a knock-off of a 350 single action, I have not tried these.  If I am going to use polly scale paint, I need the control of my double action.

Initially, I get very good flow and spray.  Then it clogs the tip rapidly.  I don't use nail polish remover, and it doesn't sound like anything I'd like to atomize, but I do add a few drops of golden's acrylic retarder to my water before I thin with it.

I am baffled by this because I have shot so many different types of paint through my brushes without problem.  Vallejo (both model air and reduced game color line), Tamiya, Auto Air, Goldens (both reduced fluid acrylic and airbrush line) as well as craft store paints thinned with future.  NOTHING has ever given me this much trouble.  I am going to try one last time Monday, and then into the bin with all this polly scale crap if I can't figure it out!

I have been using Polly Scale exclusively with my Paasche H single action airbrush and have not had this problem with tip dry and clogging. I use both the medium #3 needle and larger #5 needle and get a consistant flow of paint with no tip dry at all. I am starting to think the airbrush your using is inconsistant with Polly Scale acrylic paints because it paints just fine through a single action airbrush. I use distilled water to thin and add a few drops of nail polish remover as a retarder and it works great. Also I always run a bit of Windex through the airbrush between spraying to keep the tip clear for the next session.

Try adding a few drops of nail polish remover to the paint and see if this helps prevent the problems your having. I know it works for me.

Killjoy wrote:

As I follow this thread, I am also working hard to figure out polly scale.  I love the color 'up armor yellow' and want to paing several military vehicles in that color. In the link you listed earlier, which is a railroad site, near the bottom the author mentioned polly scale likes low psi, and he sprays very close.  I tried this last night, spraying about 8 psi, maybe 7, and shot at 3" distance.  I had pretty good flow throughout.  I thinned 3:1 paint to thinner, and could probably have thinned more.  I used distilled water with a couple drops of retardent mixed into the water before I thinned. I still had tip dry pretty quickly, much faster than I do with Tamiya or auto air.  I know this sounds contrary, especially Tamiya, which is alcohol based, and thinned with the same, but it flows longer and more consistantly than the polly scale!

Hey Killjoy,

So are you experiencing the same thing as I am? Are you able to spray for a couple seconds and then all of a sudden it just stops on you? Are you then able to start spraying again by rocking the needle back and forth? I'm curious if it's doing the same thing to you and with what kind of airbrush?

Thanks

Hey Guys,

What size needle are you spraying with? I'm using an Iwata HP-CS .35mm needle, but it has been pointed out that I try the .5mm because acrylics spray better that way. Just for comparison, what are you spraying with?

Thanks

As I follow this thread, I am also working hard to figure out polly scale.  I love the color 'up armor yellow' and want to paing several military vehicles in that color.

In the link you listed earlier, which is a railroad site, near the bottom the author mentioned polly scale likes low psi, and he sprays very close.  I tried this last night, spraying about 8 psi, maybe 7, and shot at 3" distance.  I had pretty good flow throughout.  I thinned 3:1 paint to thinner, and could probably have thinned more.  I used distilled water with a couple drops of retardent mixed into the water before I thinned.

I still had tip dry pretty quickly, much faster than I do with Tamiya or auto air.  I know this sounds contrary, especially Tamiya, which is alcohol based, and thinned with the same, but it flows longer and more consistantly than the polly scale!

Triarius wrote:

Most people have more trouble with "tip-dry" using Tamiya than with Polly Scale. I may call Testors tomorrow and see if they'll tell me whether they've changed formulations.

That's an idea. In the meantime I will go back to the drawing boards and try all the different thinners again, (ie distilled water, IA91%, Testors, windex, ect.) with different ratios.

Triarius wrote:

What Phil said, or the thinner really isn't compatible with Polly Scale, or you have a physical problem inside the airbrush. Man, this is a head scratcher!

Hey Ross, thanks for sticking with me on all these posts. Yeah this is a real head scratcher. I can't imagine that the thinner is incompatible since it's the same thinner that is recommended on the bottle and by the Testors people. As for the airbrush, I'm able to spray other paints like Tamiya without issue so you would think that the airbrush is working ok. The only thing I notice is an ever so small amount of paint that forms on the tip. Thanks again for all the imput, hopefully I'll be able to fix this. Especially since I just bought a bunch of PS. 

Phil_H wrote:

It still sounds as if your paint is insufficiently thinned. I'm not familiar with PS, but 1 part thinner to 4 parts paint sounds insufficient.  I looked at the site linked above and it appears the suggested mix is 25% thinner 75% paint - I read that as 1:3. Remember that thinning ratios are only suggestions and are not set in stone. Paint viscosity, even within the same manufacturer's range, can vary from colour to colour and from one production batch to another of the same colour. Suggested ratios are really only a general guide. sometimes you'll need more thinner, sometimes less. It really sounds like in this case, you need more thinner.

Thanks Phil. I thinned the paint to the point where it was almost thinner than 2% milk. Sometimes it would come out almost like watercolor it was so thin. I'll try some other ratios, but if I go any thinner it's going to be like shooting water.

What Phil said, or the thinner really isn't compatible with Polly Scale, or you have a physical problem inside the airbrush.

Man, this is a head scratcher!  

It still sounds as if your paint is insufficiently thinned. I'm not familiar with PS, but 1 part thinner to 4 parts paint sounds insufficient. 

I looked at the site linked above and it appears the suggested mix is 25% thinner 75% paint - I read that as 1:3.

Remember that thinning ratios are only suggestions and are not set in stone. Paint viscosity, even within the same manufacturer's range, can vary from colour to colour and from one production batch to another of the same colour. Suggested ratios are really only a general guide. sometimes you'll need more thinner, sometimes less. It really sounds like in this case, you need more thinner.

Ok guys I finally got my strainer in the mail today and was hoping this would solve the problem. I've followed all the steps, I've thinned the paint as recommended using the Testors acrylic thinner 1 part to 4, my airbrush is completely clean, I've strained the paint using a micromesh grade 100 strainer, and yet I still have issues spraying.

It's really odd because I will open the airbrush a little to let the air out and paint will start to flow, but then within a couple of seconds nothing comes out. I continue to hold the needle in the same position and the paint just stops coming out. If I rock the needle back and forth a little paint will start to flow again, but then eventually it just stops again. Something is stopping the paint, but I can't tell what it could be if I have strained it. The thinner should help with any dry tip and so I can't imagine it's that. What else could it be?

I should add that I had no issues spraying PS clear gloss without thinning. 

scollen wrote:

The age point is intresting. last night I was spraying an FW 190 with PS paint. One jar was several years old, the other new. The new paint sprayed a lot better. This was with a Badger Renegade Velocity. That said both were still problematic, unlike the Tamiya I usually use. I was thinning with distilled water at abut 15% as recommended. I also strained the paint. I didn't use dish soap but will try that tonight.

That's great that you were able to test both, but unfortunate that it gave you the same result. It's sad to hear that the strainer didn't even work. I just ordered some online in hopes that this would solve my problem. One of the guys over at the Trains.com forums recommended this link to read about PS. There are some good points in there, but haven't tried them yet.

The age point is intresting. last night I was spraying an FW 190 with PS paint. One jar was several years old, the other new. The new paint sprayed a lot better. This was with a Badger Renegade Velocity.

That said both were still problematic, unlike the Tamiya I usually use. I was thinning with distilled water at abut 15% as recommended. I also strained the paint.

I didn't use dish soap but will try that tonight.