Newbie needs help with equipment

The VL is a good airbrush and stood the test of time. It is a 20 years old design and cannot match the value of modern designs from Badger, Iwata and Paasche. Saving $10 out of an over $200 purchase to go with an old design is not good advise for newbies

We can go over this many times and keep going in circles. What your stating is completeley FALSE! The VL will and can stand up for many years and your savings are much more than 10.00 USD. The airbrush and needle alone cost 45.00 USD. The VL kit I posted offers much more bang for the buck than the Iwata kit you posted.

If you cant use a VL, dont blame the brush. I know this for a fact.

The Iwata HP-CR is not necessarily a better airbrush than the Paasche Talon that you personally got recently. (Wonder why you did not get another VL instead of the Talon?)

I guess you havent been reading my reply's? Why would I need a new VL when my old VL still works perfect after 15 years? It may not be an Iwata but it dosent need to be an Iwata to stand the test of time. ( I happen to own 6 AB's and yes I do have an Iwata HP-SB Plus side feed, also a SATAgraph 3 gravity feed) the 3 AB's I posted in the pic a few post back are also mine,and of course my new Talon. So the BS stops here.

Im beginnig to believe your a IWATA representative. You havent given a single alternative to Iwata since you posted. If you claim not to be a rep of IWATA then you lead me to believe your just a FANATIC, which is a bit more scary.

The Badger 175,150,and 155 are all good AB's and will last a life time.

The Pasche VL has been around forever and is used by many and is this best bang for the buck at 45.00 USD. If you use the coupon from Hobby Lobby which I know your fond of, the brush will cost a measley 27.00 USD!!!! This is good advise for a newbie and in my opinion the BEST advise for a newbie.

If he wants to use Iwata ,they are very good AB's also, but be prepared to pay high prices for the better Iwata AB's.

The market price of a better Iwata such as my HP-SB :

http://www.whosedepot.com/servlet/Detail?no=104

Remeber that this is not needed for modeling but very nice to have. GREAT AB !

Dont forget :

Richpen - I havent used this brand but many swear by them. (Pricy)

Richpen Appollo 113C market price:

http://www.bearair.com/prodinfo.asp?number=100301

SATAgraph - excellent but very pricy (compares to any Iwata) Choices folks.

Market rate on SATAgraph:

https://www.toolmancentral.com/25ML_SATAGRAPH_3With_25ML_Gravity_Cup-Review-c1339-p31215.htm

I didnt want to mention these because these AB's are truly not needed to spray models.

Cheaper AB's

Master - I havent used them but the price is good and Im sure they are fine for modeling. ( I believe they are a knock-off of Iwata)

Master market price:

http://www.tcpglobal.com/airbrushdepot/itemdetail.aspx?itemno=MAS+G23

These AB's look perfect for modeling. I have never used one so I cant recommend the brand but the price is right.

I offer choices, you have offered nothing but Iwata! In my opinion thats BAD advise to be giving to a newbie.

There are many good choices.

spiralcity wrote:

I like the set you posted, its not a bad price. But I believe it's same compressor or at least very similar to the one listed with the VL set.

Glad that you like those alternatives. Yes, the TC-20T compressor is the same and it has a few satisfied users on this forum. I tried to quote the same seller that you keep going back to.

The VL is a good airbrush and stood the test of time. It is a 20 years old design and cannot match the value of modern designs from Badger, Iwata and Paasche. Saving $10 out of an over $200 purchase to go with an old design is not good advise for newbies.

The Iwata HP-CR is not necessarily a better airbrush than the Paasche Talon that you personally got recently. (Wonder why you did not get another VL instead of the Talon?) But the seller offers the Iwata HP-CR as a set with the TC-20T compressor and makes it the best value for beginners from this seller, Airbrush-Depot.

The best choice is a matter of budget too. If the newbie is not sure about using airbrush in the long run. There are good choices at lower price, which wears out faster and may not do as well over time. Again "buy cheap, buy twice".

This $130 AB+compressor set is perfectly fine for many beginners.

Disclaimer: I have no connection to the TGPGlobal/Airbrush-Depot. They are just one of the "known quality" based on experiences of members of this forum.

Hi keilu,

I like the set you posted, its not a bad price.

But I believe it's same compressor or at least very similar to the one listed with the VL set.

You can get an Iwata Revolution HP-CR airbrush with an AirBrush Depot compressor for $219 plus shipping. That's about the lowest price that you don't need to worry about "buy cheap, buy twice".

Buy cheap does not mean buy twice. As I posted earlier, my VL is about 15 years old and still gets a lot of use. If you need to upgrade for any reason then by all means do so, thats a choice that can be made by the individual, but Im sure the VL is up to any modeling task. I have had very few problems or complaints with mine.

namvet66 wrote:

Looking to purchase my first AB and compressor. Please give me some advice on what would be best suited for newbie who never airbrushed before. All help will be appreciated. Thanks

You can get an Iwata Revolution HP-CR airbrush with an AirBrush Depot compressor for $219 plus shipping. That's about the lowest price that you don't need to worry about "buy cheap, buy twice".

The CR AB is a lot of airbrush for beginner and will allow you to build up skill very rapidly. It will be sufficient for most modelers without further upgrade. For another $20 more ($239), you can get the set with the Iwata Eclipse HP-CS airbrush.

I upgrade from an older model Paasche to the HP-CS airbrush. The balance of the body, smoothness of control and ease of cleaning is worth every penny if you can afford it.

Good luck with your decision.

I found a complete VL set-up for around 225.00 with shipping.

You can upgrade to other AB's in the future. This kit looks pretty good and is selling at a reasonable price. I used this seller to buy my Talon and he seemed pretty good. Item was shipped secure and fast.

Not sure how much you want to spend, but this seems like a great way to get airbrushing.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Paasche-VL-AIRBRUSH-SET-w-COMPRESSOR-Paint-Hobby-Craft_W0QQitemZ200317999663QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item200317999663&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

keilau wrote:

spiralcity wrote: I think your missing the point. The market value is much higher on Iwata than on Badger or Paasche. With a discount you may get an Iwata at the true market value of Badger or Paasche, but you need to rely on a discouint to do this. NO MYTH! In any case ther is no Iwata on the market for 45.00 USD. And I have had a VL for many years that still performs like a charm. NO MYTH. Is it a joke that you insisted on comparing the Paasche VL to the Iwata Eclipse HP-CS? I did not miss the point. Go to the DixieArt web site or any other major airbrush vendor's. You will find equivalent model from Paasche and Iwata to be within about $10-20. Calling it "paying through the nose" IS A MYTH. In the case of the Iwata HP-CS, it becomes a "best buy" because it is stocked at Hobby Lobby. The 40% coupon is NOT a one time discount. You can count on it regularly. I stand by my statement that I can get HP-CS needle cheaper than the one for Talon.

Nobody is comparing the VL to the Iwata except you. I suggeted this to the OP as a AB to start with. My VL has held out fine for nearly 15 years, so where is the joke?

If your using the AB to strickly shoot models the VL is more than enough to get the job done.

The needles are a moot point. I usually buy 5 or 6 at a time and I dont worry about them for a very long time.

We are suppose to be guiding the OP in a good direction for a begginer with an AB. As far as price goes I highly suggest the VL for 45.00 to get him started. I never suggeted he buy a Talon. I said he could upgrade if he wanted.

Not one of the AB's in the pic below is less than 10 years old. they all still perform flawlessly. I replaced a seal here or there and a few new needles and tips, but thats it. These brushes have held out for years. EVEN the measley VL. As long as they spray nice lines when needed and stand the test of time, what more can you ask of an AB?

If you were to paint a kit with an Iwata then turn around and paint one with the VL using the same care, no one would say "Hey that kit was shot with an Iwata and that one with a VL". You couldnt tell the difference.

Arguing with me over the price of Iwata seems a bit silly. Shoot with what you like and be sure to give good advise to those who ask.

Iwata is a great AB I would never deny that.

keilau wrote:

spiralcity wrote: I think your missing the point. The market value is much higher on Iwata than on Badger or Paasche. With a discount you may get an Iwata at the true market value of Badger or Paasche, but you need to rely on a discouint to do this. NO MYTH! In any case ther is no Iwata on the market for 45.00 USD. And I have had a VL for many years that still performs like a charm. NO MYTH. Is it a joke that you insisted on comparing the Paasche VL to the Iwata Eclipse HP-CS? I did not miss the point. Go to the DixieArt web site or any other major airbrush vendor's. You will find equivalent model from Paasche and Iwata to be within about $10-20. Calling it "paying through the nose" IS A MYTH. In the case of the Iwata HP-CS, it becomes a "best buy" because it is stocked at Hobby Lobby. The 40% coupon is NOT a one time discount. You can count on it regularly. I stand by my statement that I can get HP-CS needle cheaper than the one for Talon.

I already did my research many times over. I feel I know the going market rate on the AB's. Iwata is more expensive. PERIOD!

I already posted a link to Dixie. Badger is cheaper there also.

spiralcity wrote:

I think your missing the point. The market value is much higher on Iwata than on Badger or Paasche. With a discount you may get an Iwata at the true market value of Badger or Paasche, but you need to rely on a discouint to do this. NO MYTH! In any case ther is no Iwata on the market for 45.00 USD. And I have had a VL for many years that still performs like a charm. NO MYTH.

Is it a joke that you insisted on comparing the Paasche VL to the Iwata Eclipse HP-CS?

I did not miss the point. Go to the DixieArt web site or any other major airbrush vendor's. You will find equivalent model from Paasche and Iwata to be within about $10-20. Calling it "paying through the nose" IS A MYTH.

In the case of the Iwata HP-CS, it becomes a "best buy" because it is stocked at Hobby Lobby. The 40% coupon is NOT a one time discount. You can count on it regularly. I stand by my statement that I can get HP-CS needle cheaper than the one for Talon.

keilau wrote:

spiralcity wrote:  keilau wrote:  spiralcity wrote: If price is not an option then Iwata is certainly an AB to consider. If money is not an option then try the Iwata, they are very nice AB's, but rember that you dont have to pay through the nose for an AB that will perform just as well as an Iwata. #1 It is a myth that the Iwata costs more than the Badger or Paasche. I got my Iwata Eclipse HP-CS at Hobby Lobby using their weekly 40% off coupon You had to use a 40% coupon to get the price near 100.00. So where is the myth? I paid $94 (tax included) for the Iwata Eclipse HP-CS kit with a pistol grip filter, 4 bottles of paints and a coupon for a replacement needle. How much less you paid for the Talon plus shipping? If it is not a myth, I don't know what is. the replacement needle and nozzle are the cheapest among all brands at Hobby Lobby If you shop Hobby Lobby you know that a replacement needle for a Paasche VL cost a WHOPPING 1.98 if you use a 40 % coupon. Does Hobby Lobby have the Talon needle in stock? Or you can use the VL needle with the Talon? You usually have to buy the replacement parts by internet order if you get the high end Badger or Paasche (Renegade or Talon) because local shop does not stock them (AB and parts). The shipping cost makes them much more expensive than those for Iwata. Any hobby shop can order parts you need and you do not pay shipping. Also Paasche and Badger are carried by most reputable Hobby Shops. Venture Hobby and Al's Hobby in the Chicago area carry a full line of both makers. I like to visit Venture Hobby and Al's Hobby whenever I am in the Chicago area too. But I don't think that they will honor the HL 40% coupon for Talon replacement needle. I stand by my statement that I can get HP-CS needle cheaper than the one for Talon. Also, it is almost impossible to find Hobby Shop who will carry the Talon in the second tier metro area (~2 million population), much less ordering part for it. I know because I live in St. Louis.

I think your missing the point. The market value is much higher on Iwata than on Badger or Paasche. With a discount you may get an Iwata at the true market value of Badger or Paasche, but you need to rely on a discouint to do this. NO MYTH!

In any case ther is no Iwata on the market for 45.00 USD. And I have had a VL for many years that still performs like a charm. NO MYTH.

Any parts I may need for my AB's I can order from the Hobby Shop and have them in a few days with no shipping charge. It only takes a phone call. NO MYTH.

I think Iwata is a fine AB, but I also know that it is marketed at a higher price than Badger or Paasche. we could argue over this AB dilema all night but to be honest it isnt worth it.

Im just trying to point the OP in the cheapest direction to get started in his AB adventure.( I feel that it would be a Paasche VL.)

Prices on needles are well within an average persons budget, if not Im sure they wouldnt be in this hobby.

spiralcity wrote:

keilau wrote:  spiralcity wrote: If price is not an option then Iwata is certainly an AB to consider. If money is not an option then try the Iwata, they are very nice AB's, but rember that you dont have to pay through the nose for an AB that will perform just as well as an Iwata. #1 It is a myth that the Iwata costs more than the Badger or Paasche. I got my Iwata Eclipse HP-CS at Hobby Lobby using their weekly 40% off coupon You had to use a 40% coupon to get the price near 100.00. So where is the myth?

I paid $94 (tax included) for the Iwata Eclipse HP-CS kit with a pistol grip filter, 4 bottles of paints and a coupon for a replacement needle. How much less you paid for the Talon plus shipping? If it is not a myth, I don't know what is.

the replacement needle and nozzle are the cheapest among all brands at Hobby Lobby If you shop Hobby Lobby you know that a replacement needle for a Paasche VL cost a WHOPPING 1.98 if you use a 40 % coupon.

Does Hobby Lobby have the Talon needle in stock? Or you can use the VL needle with the Talon?

You usually have to buy the replacement parts by internet order if you get the high end Badger or Paasche (Renegade or Talon) because local shop does not stock them (AB and parts). The shipping cost makes them much more expensive than those for Iwata. Any hobby shop can order parts you need and you do not pay shipping. Also Paasche and Badger are carried by most reputable Hobby Shops. Venture Hobby and Al's Hobby in the Chicago area carry a full line of both makers.

I like to visit Venture Hobby and Al's Hobby whenever I am in the Chicago area too. But I don't think that they will honor the HL 40% coupon for Talon replacement needle. I stand by my statement that I can get HP-CS needle cheaper than the one for Talon. Also, it is almost impossible to find Hobby Shop who will carry the Talon in the second tier metro area (~2 million population), much less ordering part for it. I know because I live in St. Louis.

I am not saying the Iwata is cheaper in purchase price or better than the Talon. But to say "that you don't have to pay through the nose for an AB that will perform just as well as an Iwata", which implied that Iwata is expensive IS A MYTH. In the long run, Iwata can be cheaper if you use the airbrush regularly.

keilau wrote:

spiralcity wrote: If price is not an option then Iwata is certainly an AB to consider. If money is not an option then try the Iwata, they are very nice AB's, but rember that you dont have to pay through the nose for an AB that will perform just as well as an Iwata. It is a myth that the Iwata costs more than the Badger or Paasche. I got my Iwata Eclipse HP-CS at Hobby Lobby using their weekly 40% off coupon. The cost was under $100. Using the same coupon, the replacement needle and nozzle are the cheapest among all brands at Hobby Lobby. Adding to the fact that the Iwata needle usually lasts longer, the Iwata may be the cheaper airbrush to own. You usually have to buy the replacement parts by internet order if you get the high end Badger or Paasche (Renegade or Talon) because local shop does not stock them (AB and parts). The shipping cost makes them much more expensive than those for Iwata. The Badger Renegade, Iwata Eclipse and Paasche Talon are all very good airbrush and will serve any modeler well for many years. The one time price difference among them are small. The bottom line: get whatever model for which you can buy replacement needle locally. It will be cheaper over the long run. For compressor, get something that can provide 0.7 CFM at 40 psi or higher. Read the spec carefully. It is NOT the same as 40 psi max (means at no flow) and 0.7 CFM max (means at very low pressure). Prepare to spend slightly over $100 for a decent airbrush compressor. Check recent posts on this topic for specific recommendations.

Hi keilau,

I would like to address a few issues you have brought up.

#1

It is a myth that the Iwata costs more than the Badger or Paasche. I got my Iwata Eclipse HP-CS at Hobby Lobby using their weekly 40% off coupon

You had to use a 40% coupon to get the price near 100.00. So where is the myth?

#2

the replacement needle and nozzle are the cheapest among all brands at Hobby Lobby

If you shop Hobby Lobby you know that a replacement needle for a Paasche VL cost a WHOPPING 1.98 if you use a 40 % coupon.

#3

You usually have to buy the replacement parts by internet order if you get the high end Badger or Paasche (Renegade or Talon) because local shop does not stock them (AB and parts). The shipping cost makes them much more expensive than those for Iwata.

Any hobby shop can order parts you need and you do not pay shipping. Also Paasche and Badger are carried by most reputable Hobby Shops. Venture Hobby and Al's Hobby in the Chicago area carry a full line of both makers.

Paasche VL AB with medium or thin needle and cap 45.00 USD. Show me an Iwata without a coupon for that price. Hell, show me an Iwata with a coupon for this price!

My Talon sells for around 60.00 USD if you just buy the AB with a needle. Show me the Iwata for the same price.

I purchased my Talon for a TOTAL of 85.00 as a kit with the extras.

The Iwata BCS is the cheapest I found at about 90.00 USD.

It's not a myth, it the going market rate.

spiralcity wrote:

If price is not an option then Iwata is certainly an AB to consider. If money is not an option then try the Iwata, they are very nice AB's, but rember that you dont have to pay through the nose for an AB that will perform just as well as an Iwata.

It is a myth that the Iwata costs more than the Badger or Paasche. I got my Iwata Eclipse HP-CS at Hobby Lobby using their weekly 40% off coupon. The cost was under $100. Using the same coupon, the replacement needle and nozzle are the cheapest among all brands at Hobby Lobby. Adding to the fact that the Iwata needle usually lasts longer, the Iwata may be the cheaper airbrush to own.

You usually have to buy the replacement parts by internet order if you get the high end Badger or Paasche (Renegade or Talon) because local shop does not stock them (AB and parts). The shipping cost makes them much more expensive than those for Iwata.

The Badger Renegade, Iwata Eclipse and Paasche Talon are all very good airbrush and will serve any modeler well for many years. The one time price difference among them are small. The bottom line: get whatever model for which you can buy replacement needle locally. It will be cheaper over the long run.

For compressor, get something that can provide 0.7 CFM at 40 psi or higher. Read the spec carefully. It is NOT the same as 40 psi max (means at no flow) and 0.7 CFM max (means at very low pressure). Prepare to spend slightly over $100 for a decent airbrush compressor. Check recent posts on this topic for specific recommendations.

If price is not an option then Iwata is certainly an AB to consider.

If your looking for a nice AB at decent prices I suggest Paasche or Badger. I own both of these brands and use them regularly. I have had my Badger 175 and 150 for 10 plus years and they still perform flawlessly. My Paasche VL has been around even longer and it still performs fine. For the money you cant beat them.

Here's a link to the nice Badger 175:

http://www.dixieart.com/Badger_Crescendo_Airbrush.html

Here's a link to the SWEET Badger 150:

http://www.dixieart.com/Badger_Model_150_Illustration_Airbrush.html

You may also want to look at Badger's 155 Anthem line:

http://www.dixieart.com/Badger_155_Anthem_General_Purpose_Airbrush.html

If you choose a Paasche you can always upgrade to a better AB later on. I just purchased the Talon. It's a sweet AB for around 85.00 USD.

If money is not an option then try the Iwata, they are very nice AB's, but remember that you dont have to pay through the nose for an AB that will perform just as well as an Iwata.

Get a dual action.

I prefer a top feed and use and Iwata HP-C.

This site sells brushes as well. 

You can get a decent compressor for about $60.

Make sure you can regulate the air pressure and an moisture trap if not included can easly be added.

Quick connect attachments are a plus also.

Eric... 

You may want to try a Paasche VL AB. They will get the job done plus they are cheap. You can get the VL set for about 60.00 USD.

Here's a link:

http://www.dixieart.com/Paasche_VL_VLSTPRO_Airbrush.html

What are you painting primarily?

E