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Is Alclad better?

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  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Savannah, GA USA
Posted by Bones-coa on Thursday, December 11, 2003 6:54 AM
Well, I tested with some metalizer last night. I sprayed one piece of plastic with MM Aluminum and the other with Aluminum Plate. After they dried, they looked identical. The only difference being that one can be buffed and the other can't. I aslo see what everyone means when they say the surface has to be perfect.

My main interest was masking. So, I stuck a post-it note on and pulled it back off. Yep, it pulled some paint off onto the note and left the mark on the plastic. I guess the Metalizer will definatly have to be sealed before masking.

Tonight I'm going to spray the two peices with future and metalizer sealer to see which looks best. I'll let you guys know what I find.

Dana F
Dana F On the bench: Tamiya DO335B-2 with LOTS of Aires stuff (On Hold) Trumpeter A-10 with LOTS and LOTS of aftermarket goodies! (On Hold) Tamiya 240ZG (In work)
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Hayward, CA
Posted by MikeV on Tuesday, December 9, 2003 7:25 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Bones-coa

Mike, I don't know if you've seen this, but I thought I'd post it anyway.

http://www.largescaleplanes.com/tips/MikeMcLeod/NMF/nmf.htm


Dana,

Cool site, and no, I haven't ever seen it. Thanks. Big Smile [:D]

Mike

Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom. " Charles Spurgeon
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, December 9, 2003 12:44 PM
i have not used MM metalizers. and i have yet to use enamels.

but i have used alclad II chrome on various of ocassions and test shots. i practically used up a whole bottle of alclad chrome.

and i have tested on different applications and base coats. below is a list of what i have done.

bast coats i have used before applying alclad II chrome:
tamiya black gloss, tamiya clear red, tamiya clear blue, alclad II black gloss, gray primer, and already black glossed plastic.

tamiya black gloss and alclad II black gloss seems to have the same glossy look. thus making the alclad chrome to come out pretty much the same. although i have had better luck with alclad black gloss sometimes. i guess it has something to do with luck as well as timing, and precise pressure on the airbrush.

tamiya clear red and clear blue actually came out exactly the same as black gloss base coat. for anyone who says you can't apply alclad over tamiya acrylics, is saying that to someone who have already tested it out on numerous of occasions. and for anyone who say you need a black gloss base coat before applying chrome is also talking to a guy who have already tried it out.

conclusion:
you do not need a "black" gloss base coat before applying alcad chrome. alclad black gloss and tamiya black gloss seems to be the same.
tamiya clear red and tamiya clear blue base coats gives the same chrome results as if applied over a black gloss base coat.
acutally sometimes, applying the clear paint as the undercoat gives a more shinny chrome affect.

alclad chrome will not give you any kind of reflection. unless you put your finger or an image really closely, it will not reflect off anything.
"UNLESS," you apply alclad chrome over an already black glossed plastic peice. this is pretty much the same thing as the highly reflective automotive black gloss paint.
and applying chrome over such a gloss paint will give you a very nice reflective peice. but it is not that shiny. it's somewhat fogged and dirty looking. it will not give you true chrome what so ever.

i have masked over alclad chrome on numerous occasions as well.
results:
sometimes the chrome became more dull and fogged up. sometimes the chrome paint just lifted off. and u can see small chips of black paint from the undercoat.
and sometimes it had no affect.
basically, alclad chrome that i have used has too many different results. you never know what you're gonna get until you try it at that moment. it never gives you an official result everytime. everytime has been different for me. sometimes it will be more reflective than other times. sometimes it will be more shinier than other times. i don't have a clue as to how to control the end results.

and as for polishing this stuff? don't waste the effort or money on it. i have used micromesh to try and polish this chrome. the micromesh made everything more foggy like crazy. it also scrape off the chrome paint really, and i mean exremely easily.

i have tried to apply clear paint over this chrome. it will definitely protect the chrome really well. but, it seems to make the over look more dull.

this is still the best chrome paint to date. but it's got a long way to go if they consider this to be Real Chrome.
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Savannah, GA USA
Posted by Bones-coa on Tuesday, December 9, 2003 10:03 AM
Mike, I don't know if you've seen this, but I thought I'd post it anyway.

http://www.largescaleplanes.com/tips/MikeMcLeod/NMF/nmf.htm
Dana F On the bench: Tamiya DO335B-2 with LOTS of Aires stuff (On Hold) Trumpeter A-10 with LOTS and LOTS of aftermarket goodies! (On Hold) Tamiya 240ZG (In work)
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Savannah, GA USA
Posted by Bones-coa on Tuesday, December 9, 2003 7:02 AM
Thanks for the link, Mike.

I may try some Metalizer on some scrap and see what happens. If this stuff is that much of a pain, then regular silver lacquer may look just as good if you know what I mean.

Thanks again.
Dana F
Dana F On the bench: Tamiya DO335B-2 with LOTS of Aires stuff (On Hold) Trumpeter A-10 with LOTS and LOTS of aftermarket goodies! (On Hold) Tamiya 240ZG (In work)
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Hayward, CA
Posted by MikeV on Monday, December 8, 2003 11:20 PM
Dana,

In this article I found on the web the author says he sprayed Future over the Testors Metalizer and then sprayed clear flat over it later after decaling. It looks pretty good so maybe you can do that. Confused [%-)]

http://hsfeatures.com/p47dbc_1.htm

Mike

Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom. " Charles Spurgeon
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Savannah, GA USA
Posted by Bones-coa on Monday, December 8, 2003 10:15 PM
Thanks, Mike. I guess I still have alot to learn on doing these finishes than I thought. I have a Trumpeter Mig-19 next on the list and it has a BMF. I better keep reading.

Dana F
Dana F On the bench: Tamiya DO335B-2 with LOTS of Aires stuff (On Hold) Trumpeter A-10 with LOTS and LOTS of aftermarket goodies! (On Hold) Tamiya 240ZG (In work)
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Hayward, CA
Posted by MikeV on Monday, December 8, 2003 8:40 PM
Dana,

Unless I am mistaken, you don't seal the metalizers with anything as far as I can remember. I'll let the more experienced modellers help you out on this one as I can only speak from what I have heard.

Mike

Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom. " Charles Spurgeon
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Savannah, GA USA
Posted by Bones-coa on Monday, December 8, 2003 7:37 PM
Really? Well, apparently I haven't been reading enough on MM metalizers. What are you supposed to seal it with then? I was told that the Meatlizer sealer wasn't very good.

Dana F
Dana F On the bench: Tamiya DO335B-2 with LOTS of Aires stuff (On Hold) Trumpeter A-10 with LOTS and LOTS of aftermarket goodies! (On Hold) Tamiya 240ZG (In work)
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Hayward, CA
Posted by MikeV on Monday, December 8, 2003 6:48 PM
Dana,

I believe Future will make the Metalizer finish look bad as they are not designed to be sealed with anything.
You can mask Metalizer paints with the wet paper trick that some have been successful with. I believe that Post-It notes can also be used because of their low-tack adhesive. Maybe someone has a link they can help you with on this technique.

Mike

Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom. " Charles Spurgeon
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Savannah, GA USA
Posted by Bones-coa on Monday, December 8, 2003 12:25 PM
What if I spray it with future, let it dry, then mask it? I now the'll be anti-glare sheilds, stripes, etc to be painted afterwards.

Dana F
Dana F On the bench: Tamiya DO335B-2 with LOTS of Aires stuff (On Hold) Trumpeter A-10 with LOTS and LOTS of aftermarket goodies! (On Hold) Tamiya 240ZG (In work)
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Saratoga Springs, NY
Posted by Jeeves on Monday, December 8, 2003 11:01 AM
I think the main thing Bones is that the Metalizers aren't as resiliant as the Alclad...meaning they rub off much easier when you mask them. I know now after doing a Mustang that the mask job does nothing at all to this Alclad paint-- as long as it's dry, it's staying there Smile [:)]
Mike
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Savannah, GA USA
Posted by Bones-coa on Monday, December 8, 2003 7:06 AM
Man, I was about to do my first BMF aircraft with MM metalizers. Now you guys have me a bit worried. Am I going to run into problems with the MM metalizers?

Dana F
Dana F On the bench: Tamiya DO335B-2 with LOTS of Aires stuff (On Hold) Trumpeter A-10 with LOTS and LOTS of aftermarket goodies! (On Hold) Tamiya 240ZG (In work)
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, December 8, 2003 5:22 AM
I've been using Alclad II for about a year now and swear by it. The only difficulty I have with it is that it, especially the aluminum, does require a gloss black primer, which I agree is a bear cat to airbrush. This also requires a primer, I tend to use a shade of gray, e.g., FS36270, and my patience wears thin on occasion. However, the pluses far outweigh the cons. Once I get it down I can mask over it without the fear of it pulling off when the masking is removed. I've left masking on for over a month (I usually use 3M blue plastic tape for sharp edges and Parafilm to mask) without any problems. Alclads metallic shades really set off my F-16s exhausts. Patience is the key, which I guess modeling is all about.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, December 7, 2003 1:22 PM
I have yet to use Alclad....I have however heard its the best thing to use now....before it was MM metalizers....I have yet to do an AC in an all metal finish...I have always wanted to though! I have the guinea pig(P51B in 1/72nd)set aside and am now waiting for the urge to just jump on it and do it......
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Hayward, CA
Posted by MikeV on Sunday, December 7, 2003 11:34 AM
Thanks for the input guys. Stinger, If I try it I will definitely let you know.
The pictures on the Alclad web site look awesome and I would like to try it sometime.
A gloss black base coat is required? That stinks. Big Smile [:D]
I hate gloss paints as their slow drying time invites dust and black shows it best.
I sprayed the compressor blades and gun muzzle of this F-15E last night with Model Master Steel color and it looks pretty good.

Mike

Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom. " Charles Spurgeon
  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Everywhere
Posted by stinger on Sunday, December 7, 2003 9:41 AM
Mike - I have a bottle of Alclad 2, but I've been apprehensive about using it. For one, it requires a gloss black base coat and I guess I'm just too lazy to paint something twice, unless it's camo.
Others here swear by it. Swanny, for one.

If you use it, please give us some feedback about your experience.

Later - Stinger

May an Angel be your wingman, and the Sun be always at your six

  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: Phoenix,Az
Posted by 9x19mm on Sunday, December 7, 2003 8:18 AM
Wow almost sounds to good to be true. I guess Ill have to start the P-51C from ICM I just picked up the other day just to try it.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, December 7, 2003 3:10 AM
You're not supposed to thin Alclad 2. It comes in the bottle ready to be airbrushed. You have to shake it up real well to use it. Sounds like the problem reported was due to inproper use of the product.

The main advantages of Alclad 2 are it's ease of use, very wear resistant finish, fast turnaround time (especially for masking), and nice metal look appearance. You don't have to polish it, and unlike some of the other products, handling won't damage the finish.
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Hayward, CA
Is Alclad better?
Posted by MikeV on Saturday, December 6, 2003 12:47 PM
I had this post in the 'Aircraft' forum and realized it belonged here so I deleted it and am posting it here now.

What is the recommendation of this group for painting parts that are colors like:
Steel, Jet Exhaust, Aluminum, Titanium, Brass, etc?
I have Model Master buffing metalizers but I have been seeing a lot of Alclad 2 used in many places on the web and assumed this must be the best thing out now, despite the post in the 'Aircraft' forum about it not drying after two months and the wrong thinner being the possible blame.

Is Alclad better than something like the MM Metalizer finishes?

Thanks

Mike

Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom. " Charles Spurgeon
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