SEARCH FINESCALE.COM

Enter keywords or a search phrase below:

Wash Horror!! Help!!

2484 views
28 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    November 2003
Wash Horror!! Help!!
Posted by TryintoModel on Monday, December 8, 2003 7:56 PM
Please excuse any ignorance said here, I'm a new modeler and this was my first attempt at airbrushing/wash/clearcoats, etc, etc....

I had finisht my Tamiya Zero in a light grey version. Once I was through airbrushing (enamels) I applyed a good coat of Future. I then applyed my decals using testors decal set. They went on realatively nicely for a newbie. I then sprayed it with another good coat of Future. After waiting a day (there was at least a day between said steps above) I started to apply my wash. I decided to use an acrylic black (don't think this should have been a problem). I mixed roughly 90% water and 10% color (I don't think I had too much color). I started brushing along seams and panel lines. It looked ok, the black was going into the recessed lines and such. But some of the lines were so small that there is no way to paint just inside the lines. So I went ahead and lightly brushed over the lines. Several problems occured. One, as the paint dried, the color seemed to accumulated at the sides of the water line outside of the crack. Some stayed in the crack but most or a lot went to the edge of where the water had been brushed. Two, I tried to brush the excess off with water and if I did it to early when the paint was wet, it wiped off the color in the seam. If I waited too long, as I did for most of it, I can't get the color off, especially where I don't want it. I'm using just a water dampened napkin. Should I used some chemical? Three, the wash wanted to soak underneath decals when I applied the wash close to them, it ended up staining a good portion underneath several of my decals.

What did I do wrong? I tried to follow other peoples suggestions. I know you live and learn, but I think I just ruined my first model. Thanks for any help.
  • Member since
    November 2003
Posted by TryintoModel on Monday, December 8, 2003 8:22 PM
Well, I just made it worse. Water wouldn't clean up the acrylic, so I tried laquer thinner. BIG MISTAKE! Even with the Future, it ate through the Future and the underlying paint. I screwed up a few decals too. Arggggggg.
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Hayward, CA
Posted by MikeV on Monday, December 8, 2003 8:37 PM
As you found out, never, ever use lacquer thinner as it will cut through anything! [:0]
Did you allow at least 72 hours between the Future and doing this wash?
I am sure Swanny or one of the other experts here on weathering can give you the specific things you should have done.

Mike

Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom. " Charles Spurgeon
  • Member since
    November 2003
Posted by TryintoModel on Monday, December 8, 2003 8:44 PM
I only waited 24 hours after the last Future coat. But I had read many places that said that Future dried really fast, even in just a few hours. Swannys weathering page is one of the many I looked at. I forgot to add the two drops of soap, however. Other than that, I did pretty much what his page said. The paint seemed to dry so fast, though, and once it dried, water would not get it off. I scrubed really hard with water. And I only waited a minute or two. If I didn't wipe it off right away, the paint wouldn't come off. I must have done something wrong.
  • Member since
    November 2003
Posted by TryintoModel on Monday, December 8, 2003 9:42 PM
How do I add insult to injury? I said, what the heck, and went ahead and sprayed it with a clear matt. Well, it had a horrible reaction with the areas I tried to clean up with laquer thinner and it wrinkled and crackled all over those places, which was the tops of the wings and tail. Unbelievable.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, December 8, 2003 9:45 PM
Strip the Kit, and redo it using some AM decals(if available).
  • Member since
    November 2003
Posted by TryintoModel on Monday, December 8, 2003 9:49 PM
Can you strip just parts of it? Like, can I just redo the wings? Or would that be too difficult?
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, December 8, 2003 9:55 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Davrukr

Can you strip just parts of it? Like, can I just redo the wings? Or would that be too difficult?


You could just strip the paint of the wings or a wing section and redo them, but I think you will get a better more even result redoing the whole plane.

I guess most of us been there and done it.
You know the top-coat starts bubbling on your contest kit 18hrs before the contest starts and you need to redo 2 weeks in 10hrs.
Wink [;)]
  • Member since
    November 2003
Posted by TryintoModel on Monday, December 8, 2003 10:01 PM
I new to modeling, much less redoing a paint job. :) How do I strip a paint job? And how do I repaint with all the small stuff on it, like landing gear, etc.?
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, December 8, 2003 10:04 PM
For that I better let you talk to the experts here.

They might have some suggestions that I can't think off.
  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: Manila, Philippines
Posted by shrikes on Monday, December 8, 2003 10:10 PM
I hear that brake fluid is great for stripping paint (never actually tried it, though). just leave your model in the stuff and forget about it, and voila! plastic again!
Blackadder: This plan's as cunning as a fox that used to be Professor of cunning at Oxford University but has now moved on and is working with the U.N at the high commission of cunning planning
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, December 8, 2003 10:21 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by shrikes

I hear that brake fluid is great for stripping paint (never actually tried it, though). just leave your model in the stuff and forget about it, and voila! plastic again!


Forget about it too long and you end up with a clumb of plastic from the dungeon or twilight dimension.
Wink [;)]

Brake/hydraulic-fluid works VERY WELL as a paint stripper, but it is strong and WILL warp plastic if not careful as well as loosen putty, etc.

Soaked rag, surgical gloves and toothbrush for me.
I turned 50 Plastic Space Marines into Chaos Marines by soaking them overnight in the stuff.
Banged Head [banghead]Banged Head [banghead]Banged Head [banghead]
  • Member since
    January 2003
Posted by shermanfreak on Monday, December 8, 2003 10:26 PM
Oven cleaner works great for stripping paint too .... spray it on, wait a little while, then scrub with a toothbrush. Repeat if necessary.

Time can vary quite a bit .... so keep a close eye on it .... 15 mins for the first test shot anyway.
Happy Modelling and God Bless Robert
  • Member since
    November 2003
Posted by TryintoModel on Monday, December 8, 2003 10:32 PM
What makes me really mad is that the places that I hadn't screwed with the laquer thinner look awesome. I can't believe how the decals blended so well after the matt finish was applied. I can't hardly tell the difference in the decal and the paint job (Keep in mind this is my first model). I almost wish I wouldn't have even tried the wash. But I know you never learn unless you try.
  • Member since
    January 2003
Posted by shermanfreak on Monday, December 8, 2003 11:00 PM
There are times where we learn much more from our mistakes than our triumphs.
Happy Modelling and God Bless Robert
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Hayward, CA
Posted by MikeV on Monday, December 8, 2003 11:12 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by shermanfreak

There are times where we learn much more from our mistakes than our triumphs.



Very sound advice my friend! Wink [;)]

Mike

Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom. " Charles Spurgeon
  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: Phoenix,Az
Posted by 9x19mm on Monday, December 8, 2003 11:33 PM
Dang, sorry to hear about the misfortune. Not to long ago i sprayed a P51D in my garage, I work nights so I generally spray before I go to work and then move them inside when I get off. Well I forgot about it, I live in arizona and this was in July so needless to say when I finally remembered and went to look at it, well it was melted in more then 1 place. It seems modeling and mishaps go hand in hand. :(
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, December 8, 2003 11:33 PM
sorry to hear that. I am also very afraid of washing my models.....
I have used ammonia (that kind sold in walmart) to strip acrylic paint. it is very efficient, and I think it is possible to strip partial area if being careful.Smile [:)]
However, I don't know how it will work on Future coat....(since Future is also acrylic base, it might work as well)
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: USA
Posted by mark956 on Monday, December 8, 2003 11:56 PM
I am sorry to here about your problem. Good luck on the repainting.
mark956
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Saratoga Springs, NY
Posted by Jeeves on Tuesday, December 9, 2003 7:27 AM
One thing for when you try washing again (if you try it again Wink [;)])-- I see you used just paint and water...but if you mix in a few drops of dishsoap-- it'll help you get the paint off the areas you don't want washed much better-- the soap interferes somewhat with the cohesion of the paint- so if you scrub it off lightly, all the recessed areas will keep the paint and it'll come off everything else...
Mike
  • Member since
    November 2003
Posted by TryintoModel on Tuesday, December 9, 2003 8:05 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Jeeves

One thing for when you try washing again (if you try it again Wink [;)])-- I see you used just paint and water...but if you mix in a few drops of dishsoap-- it'll help you get the paint off the areas you don't want washed much better-- the soap interferes somewhat with the cohesion of the paint- so if you scrub it off lightly, all the recessed areas will keep the paint and it'll come off everything else...


Using the dish soap was definately something I forgot. I didn't realize it was that important. I have been reading "Building and Displaying Model Aircraft" and they use Gundam markers to do the "wash" for the panel lines. I wasn't going to buy them since everyone uses the cheaper thinned paint meathod. But after last nights episode, I promply got on the internet and purchased a set. I know these aren't a cure all, especially for washing areas like cockpits, but I just want to try and produce a decent model first. Maybe I tried to much the first time. I feel kinda bummed.
  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Broken Arrow, Oklahoma
Posted by maddafinga on Tuesday, December 9, 2003 8:30 AM
One thing you might give a shot is Testors dried paint remover. It's supposed to be for acrylics but it will take stuff off of enamels as well. If you dip a q-tip in it, and rub lightly, it'll take anything off the surface without really damaging the underlying paint. You do have to be careful though as it will strip everything if you bear down. I am so glad that I found that stuff, as it solved that very same problem for me the first time I tried to use a wash. Give it a shot.
Madda Trifles make perfection, but perfection is no trifle. -- Leonardo Da Vinci Tact is for those who lack the wit for sarcasm.--maddafinga
  • Member since
    November 2003
Posted by TryintoModel on Tuesday, December 9, 2003 11:04 AM
Has anyone tried using markers to accent panel lines, such as the Gundam markers I mentioned?
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, December 9, 2003 2:55 PM
Yes, I have but use the waterbased marker.

Easy to indentify it has2 small clear windows in the cap and the tip looks more like a calligraphy brush.

Works well, but only comes in Black and brown.
  • Member since
    November 2003
Posted by TryintoModel on Tuesday, December 9, 2003 3:47 PM
Hmmm, I hope I ordered the right ones then. I just ordered the only fine pointed Gundam markers I could find. The only three they had was black, grey and brown in fine point. I guess I will soon find out.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, December 9, 2003 5:11 PM
If you bought the fine-tip not a problem, slightly different procedure though.
Fine tip is as below:


After you drew the lines let it dry and then erase any excess using a pencil eraser.

The Brush tip is as follows:


Draw your lines let dry for a short time and wipe the excess off.
Pencil eraser again will get rid of tough spots.

Either will work and both methods are used over here, the fine tip is simply a 0.5mm pen, the brush type has, IMO, an advantage that more paint will collect in grooves and not evenly fill larger gaps.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, December 9, 2003 5:17 PM
could you provide some info on Gundam marker (like what color you use, the result ect) after you try them? THANKS! and it is funny that we are reading the same book.Big Smile [:D]
I am really scared about the wash, and seems like I never get it right. So I guess this kind of 'cheating' method might be easier to master (currently I am experimenting with using pencil, the result is not too bad)
QUOTE: Originally posted by Davrukr

QUOTE: Originally posted by Jeeves

One thing for when you try washing again (if you try it again Wink [;)])-- I see you used just paint and water...but if you mix in a few drops of dishsoap-- it'll help you get the paint off the areas you don't want washed much better-- the soap interferes somewhat with the cohesion of the paint- so if you scrub it off lightly, all the recessed areas will keep the paint and it'll come off everything else...


Using the dish soap was definately something I forgot. I didn't realize it was that important. I have been reading "Building and Displaying Model Aircraft" and they use Gundam markers to do the "wash" for the panel lines. I wasn't going to buy them since everyone uses the cheaper thinned paint meathod. But after last nights episode, I promply got on the internet and purchased a set. I know these aren't a cure all, especially for washing areas like cockpits, but I just want to try and produce a decent model first. Maybe I tried to much the first time. I feel kinda bummed.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, December 12, 2003 9:25 PM
Pigment liners also work quite well for doing panel lines, and any access can be wiped away with just your finger. They are a water base and when dry they are fairly permanent ( relax they are slow drying ). Pigment liners can be found in a veriaty of sizes down to a .005 and cost around a buck or two each. They can be found at "Staples" or an art supply store.
  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: On the way to AC+793888
Posted by lolok on Saturday, December 13, 2003 9:36 AM
Sorry to hear about your mishap,we have all been there. The brake fluid tip is where I go. I have never had any problems with it. Even three ot four days does normal kit plastic no harm. The soft greasy plastic that toy soldiers and the like are made from does suffer though. A good stiff toothbrush and away you go. the paint is fresh so it should all come off easy. you may need a fine needle in a chuck to get the panel lines clean. Carefully though,you do not want to plough the plastic. Japanese planes always looked kicked around anyway.
Jim Ryan Ex-Pat Limey in warsaw.Poland. " MENE,MENE,TEKEL U PHARSIN"
JOIN OUR COMMUNITY!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

SEARCH FORUMS
FREE NEWSLETTER
By signing up you may also receive reader surveys and occasional special offers. We do not sell, rent or trade our email lists. View our Privacy Policy.