Chromate/Interior Green

Hello!

I just read a good article on US Aircraft interior finishes - I thought I'd add a link here:

http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2004/01/stuff_eng_interior_colours_us.htm

I hope it helps - have a nice day

Paweł

missileman2000

In my opinion, the Interior Green was darker, and the green had a bit higher saturation in the green compared to Zinc Chromate.

I got a neat deal on some ZC many years ago.  I worked at McDonnell Douglas in STL.  Word got around that a local surplus store had a great deal on ZC primer.  Turns out that Mac had ordered a big shipment of spray cans for touchup work.  But receiving inspection declared the color was off a bit, and the whole order ended up at the local store at a really cheap price.  I picked up four cans.  Was working on a 1:1 plane as well as models.

That's what I had read also, that they added a little more black for the interior green.

I used to buy a can of that real zinc chromate primer every once in a while at work.  Can't even get the stuff easily anymore because it was deemed to be so nasty.  If I remember right, the rattle cans went away completely, but you could still buy it for paint guns in a few places.  Our structures guy always insisted on getting it and just dealing with the extra PPE and cleanup afterward though.  Said the "safer" substitutes just didn't work.

Oh...and then there's the interior green the British used in WWII, which was yet another shade of green.  MRP makes that too.

So---

 I guess this means if I use virgin Chromate It almost isn't visible? That's a relief. Because I don't like that sickly color. The Yellowish Metallic is more to my Liking.Then I can concentrate onthe important stuff. Panels and Controls, Seat or Seats? and such!

I just add various amounts black to yellow for all flavors of us ww2 a/c interiors 

In my opinion, the Interior Green was darker, and the green had a bit higher saturation in the green compared to Zinc Chromate.

 

I got a neat deal on some ZC many years ago.  I worked at McDonnell Douglas in STL.  Word got around that a local surplus store had a great deal on ZC primer.  Turns out that Mac had ordered a big shipment of spray cans for touchup work.  But receiving inspection declared the color was off a bit, and the whole order ended up at the local store at a really cheap price.  I picked up four cans.  Was working on a 1:1 plane as well as models.

 

http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2004/01/stuff_eng_interior_colours_us.htm

 

Here is page 1 of 3 of the IPMS Stockholm article. It's a good basic primer on the subject but not the last word. This only covers US WWII era aircraft. 

Anonymous

 Russians different colors depending on if the interior surface were metal or wood/fabric surfaces. 

A member of my local club has traveled to Hungary multiple times and is friends with former Hungarian pilots as well as other former Warsaw pact personnel said that the colors painted on some cockpits represent the classification level.  The sapphire blue seen in some MiGs represent a higher level than gray in cockpits of some Hinds.    Lower ranks who may not be as well educated are told they cannot enter a blue area

I use MRP-131, which is the MRP equivalent of FS34151/ANA611 from the old days, before they went to the yellow chromate.  Used it inside the generator bays on my pre-1968 F-4B project.  Actually bought it for my B-36H interior.

shrikes

*groan* there's more than one interior color?? man, i need to be doing better research!

IPMS Stockholm has a multi-part (and nicely-illustrated) article covering US WW2 interior colors broken down by manufacturer and time period. It's a great -- and nearly painless -- place to start.

BTW, if you're not familiar with IPMS Stockholm's site, it's a veritable treasure trove of all kinds of great modeling info. Well worth exploring in depth (and bookmarking...you'll find yourself going back agaIn and again. )

Be aware that, as previous posters indicated, many manufacturers mixed or spec'd their own interior color formulas...so you generally don't need to obsess on the equivalent of FS595a matches, as long as your 'yellow chromate' is brighter than your 'green chromate.' All mixed from chromate and black, their exact tones varied more than a bit. [I use Tamiya acrylics nearly exclusively and often mix my own interior colors just that way, with yellow and black...and occasionally a drop of deep green. ]

Cheers

Recently I have been using Anita's Craft Paint - Dark Celery for Zinc Chromate Yellow.   

Scale Colors also makes an interior Zinc Chromate yellow which is really rather bright.   It compares favorably with color film footage from NARA of LCT-6s under construction

Theere's now a colour by ModelAir. Interior Green. They make a wide range of colours. There's other colours too. Tamiya has also improved their range of colours. 

Oh you are using the Tamiya enamels and not acrylic paints. I have 1 bottle of Tamiya acrylic I got in the summer of 1987. I am still using it! Just mix the paints and thin them when you need to. The only thing that's good about the Testors/Model Master compared to Tamiya is the range of colors available. Tamiya's line is really limited in colors. The Testors/Model Master paints don't have as good of a shelf life. Maybe it's just that their bottle caps don't seal as well compared to others.

QUOTE: Originally posted by hungfarlow Are these Tamiya paint that you were mixing? Try not to add thinner into the mix if you intend to store the mix for a long period of time (for paint in general). You can still use the mix if you stir it up well and rethin. Putting thinner into paint will tend to shorten the shelf life. It upsets the balance of the pigment, binder and solvent.

Yes they were, actually... Tamiya enamels. So i should only thin them out when i'm going to use them, huh? Tamiya really is easiest paint to find... man, that's annoying! I'm hearing good things about testors and model master paints...

Well, reference pictures probably won't be very accurate as pictures don't accurately represent the color. There are a lot of lighting effects that will change the color you see. You can try to match against FS color chips for interior green if you want to mix. As a matter of fact, the recently published book on Soviet fighter aircraft colors does not contain any color references because the author believes that it would not be possible to accurately print colors.

Are these Tamiya paint that you were mixing? Try not to add thinner into the mix if you intend to store the mix for a long period of time (for paint in general). You can still use the mix if you stir it up well and rethin. Putting thinner into paint will tend to shorten the shelf life. It upsets the balance of the pigment, binder and solvent.

Lifecolour and Agama both have yellow zinc chromate. Both are European paints so they might be a little hard for you to get your hands on. XF-4 + XF-1 is what I mentioned for getting green zinc chromate.

I was recently in a B-17. The crew areas were interior green while the other areas of the interior was in green zinc chromate.

If you start modeling non US aircrafts, then you got even more interior colors to choose from! The Brits had a grayish green. Italians a very light grayish green. Germans either dark grey or a light puke like grey. Japanese several different interior colors depending on the plane and/or manufacturer. Russians different colors depending on if the interior surface were metal or wood/fabric surfaces. Now that's still occupying researcher's time to determine the actual colors.

Shrikes
A couple of years ago FSM did an article on US interior colors - don't remember the date, but will look it up and let you know.
I've used zinc chromate for years on 1 to 1 aircraft and most of the model paint manufacturers paints tend to match them pretty well (the only source of zinc chromate yellow I know of is Testors in the small bottles) They vary a little, but most paint is going to vary from batch to batch (even from the same manufacturer) - just don't put yellow chromate where the flight crew would be able to see it in flight - guess it had the tendency to make people very airsick.
Also if you want to mix your own, try mixing black and yellow. I've found that I can get a closer and quicker match to my reference chromate color that way. (Talking chromate green here)

GREEN+CHROME YELLOW

=uuuuggghhh...


(take a peek in this one gate-flier Sabre here)
http://www.geocities.com/veritasps02/f86f-paf.jpg

QUOTE: Originally posted by hungfarlow Tamiya doesn't have a color that's a match for the Interior Green color, but you can get a good match with 2 parts XF-3 Flat Yellow and one part XF-5 Flat Green. There is also a yellow zinc chromate for which Tamiya XF-4 Yellow Green is a good match. By adding black to yellow zinc chromate you can get green zinc chromate. By the way, there were many different greens used for the interior of US WWII aircrafts! Bronze green was used in Bell aircrafts, the P-47's had a dark green interior similar to it with yellow zinc chromate for the landing gear wells. Zinc chromate greens were often used in interior areas except for the cockpit areas which were interior green on those.

*groan* there's more than one interior color?? man, i need to be doing better research!
Thanks for the help, hungfarlow! I'll try the XF-3 Flat Yellow/XF-5 Flat Green combination next time... i may even mix up a big bottle of the stuff so it's handy, but i have two more questions:
1. Are there any reference pics as to what shade the Interior Green should be? most of my colored walk around photos are of restored aircraft with strange interiors...
2. I mixed some paint (med. blue and med. gray) for a PBY-6 i was doing and it chips really easily... i just put the two colors together in a new bottle and added a little thinner. the colors sort of separate when i let it sit in the bottle for long periods of time... did i do something wrong?

Tamiya doesn't have a color that's a match for the Interior Green color, but you can get a good match with 2 parts XF-3 Flat Yellow and one part XF-5 Flat Green.

There is also a yellow zinc chromate for which Tamiya XF-4 Yellow Green is a good match. By adding black to yellow zinc chromate you can get green zinc chromate.

By the way, there were many different greens used for the interior of US WWII aircrafts! Bronze green was used in Bell aircrafts, the P-47's had a dark green interior similar to it with yellow zinc chromate for the landing gear wells. Zinc chromate greens were often used in interior areas except for the cockpit areas which were interior green on those.