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Newbie needs help

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  • Member since
    February 2010
Newbie needs help
Posted by Juicebox on Thursday, February 11, 2010 4:55 PM

After reading magazines and these forums for a bit, I've managed to confuse myself further than when I started out. I will be working with modelmaster enamel paints and modelmaster flat and gloss lacquer clear coats on an F-15E Strike Eagle.

1. Do I need primer for flat enamel paints or just when using gloss enamel or lacquer paints?

2. Is the order: flat paint, then glossy clear coat lacquer, then decals, then flat clear coat laquer?

3. Is weather wash the very last thing to do or does it need to be clear coated?

4. Should gloss enamel ever be clear coated?

5. Should I have bought the metalizer paints instead of regular enamel metal?

Luv yas!

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Massachusetts
Posted by ajlafleche on Thursday, February 11, 2010 6:39 PM

Juicebox

After reading magazines and these forums for a bit, I've managed to confuse myself further than when I started out. I will be working with modelmaster enamel paints and modelmaster flat and gloss lacquer clear coats on an F-15E Strike Eagle.

1. Do I need primer for flat enamel paints or just when using gloss enamel or lacquer paints?

No, but it's a good idea anyway. It will help you see  where you need to do more work with your filling and filng.

2. Is the order: flat paint, then glossy clear coat lacquer, then decals, then flat clear coat laquer?

No.

Paint, clear gloss, decals, maybe another shot of clear gloss if you feel the need, pin wash if you want, then flat to seal everything in.

3. Is weather wash the very last thing to do or does it need to be clear coated?

I'm not sure what you mean by weather wash. The Air Force keeps their birds pretty clean. If you want to accent panel lines, do that with the pin wash mentioned above.

4. Should gloss enamel ever be clear coated?

If you've placed decals on glossy paint, you should seal them in  with a clear coat of the appropriate sheen. The edges will be less visible and they are less likely to lift over time.

5. Should I have bought the metalizer paints instead of regular enamel metal?

Probably. Metalizers give a much better and more realistic metal finish. Some can be buffed giving he same color different values and levels of sheen, Metal colored enamels, at least when I was using them, tended to be heavy and slow in curing. Metallizers dry almost instantly and cover with an exceptionally thin layer. The good part of that is detail is very visible. The bad part is that any blemish or scratch will show through. Also, you do not want to prime when using metalizer since the graininess/texture of the primer will show s well.

 

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Remember, if the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy.

  • Member since
    February 2010
Posted by Juicebox on Friday, February 12, 2010 2:44 AM

Thanks!  This is actually the first time I heard the term pin wash.  But ya, I meant accenting panel lines.

  • Member since
    September 2007
  • From: Truro Nova Scotia, Canada
Posted by SuppressionFire on Friday, February 12, 2010 4:45 AM

The less layers of paint the better for preserving detail. Once color layers are on seal the model with Future It can be brushed on and always drys perfectly flat. Apply decals over cured Future (about 24 hours) Seal decals with Future and cure again before weathering. Future is arcylic so thinned enamel will not effect it. DO NOT use thinned arcylics with isoprople over future. Once everything is finished like panel lines, pastells, pencil crayon chips, lead pencil metal wear and exhaust stains seal the entire plane with flat or semi gloss clear coat. Spray this layer out of a can or airbrush to seal in weathering and protect it from handeling. I find best not to handle model with fingers. A clean leather glove helps keep the finish in top shape.

Good luck and post some WIP's (work in progress)

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y211/razordws/GB%20Badges/WMIIIGBsmall.jpg

 

 

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Friday, February 12, 2010 2:36 PM

My 2-cents-worth..  I'll give you some specifics, and some general tips as well..

1. Do I need primer for flat enamel paints or just when using gloss enamel or lacquer paints?

You don't need primer for either, although it's ok to use, especially over dark-colored plastic that is going to get painted with a lighter color.. I use the grey automotive primer from Wal-Mart... It's dirt cheap, works really well, wet-sands beautifully, and you get some minor sand-scratch filling from it...

2. Is the order: flat paint, then glossy clear coat lacquer, then decals, then flat clear coat laquer?

If you paint in gloss colors from the beginning, you can eliminate the clear gloss step.  But generally speaking, no... My order of finishing is:

1- Color coat 

2- Clear gloss (generally-speaking, acrylic over enamel, enamel or laquer over acrylic)

3- Decals

4-  Gloss coat  to seal decals.

4b-Fade base colors (optional, and separate technique to learn, which is beyond the scope of this reply)

5- Wash.  For oil and enamel washes, this is why you use acrylic clear. The thinners will attack the enamel color coat if you don't.

6- Clear flat  (Again, acrylic over enamel, enamel over laquer over acrylic so the next step doesn't attack the washes and finish)

7- Drybrush highlights. Use enamel over acrylic, yadda-yadda...

8-pastels (optional, but almost required for exhaust and gun-powder stains, and applying dust)  Pastels require a flat finish to work best because the rough texture gives some "tooth" for the powder to grab..

Note: Don't over-do the 'dust-color' pastels... If you do, your model will look like it taxied throgh a flour-mill..

Note 2: Forget about using Future if you don't have an airbrush.  Personally, I only use it for what it's designed for. Floors.  I mean, I tried once, just because everyone raved about it back in the 80s... Didn't like the result, it was hard to control, and finicky about thinning...     Rattle-cans of clear gloss & flats take about 10 seconds to apply, dry much faster, and there's ZERO clean-up..  If you DO have an airbrush, you can probably use it... Personally, I hate the stuff, and if I didn't, I'd never suggest it be used by a beginner.  Rattle-cans are far better (IMHO) for beginners.  Crawl, Walk, Run...

3. Is weather wash the very last thing to do or does it need to be clear coated?

    No to the first.  A wash is tinted thinner (not thinned paint) that's usually applied to give depth to recessed areas.   The only "weathering" that washes are good for is for POL stains Petroleum, Oil & Lubricants) like fuel, oil, hydraulic fluid-type stains, drips, & runs..  It works best over gloss, which allows for capillary-action to carry the wash into the recesses and lines.  For most POL stains and seepage, it has the best effect over flats. Takes practice though.  A single pin-point drop can bloom into a pretty big stain... Clear coat it when you're done, but remeber.. When you add depth, you'll also need to add hight.  So after you clear coat the wash, you'll need to drybrush the highlights, usually in progressively lighter shades of the base color.  Drybrushing itself is another, separate technique that's beyond the scope of this post.  Rather than trying to get all your questions answered in one post, I suggst you do some more reading on painting & weathering... I HIGHLY recommend the Bible.. That is, my Bible; How to Build Dioramas by Shepard Paine. 

4. Should gloss enamel ever be clear coated?

Personally, I clear-coat EVERYTHING, gloss or not.. Clear-coating after you've applied decals, washes, and drybrushing tie everything together and make for a uniform finish and the decals look painted, the washes look like shadows, and the drybrushed highlights like reflected light, which is what you want..

5. Should I have bought the metalizer paints instead of regular enamel metal?

Metalizers are a different animal than metalic enamels.  They require an entirely different approach to painting... They MUST be applied by airbrushing unless you use the rattle cans, may or may not be buffed, and MUST be sealed with their own type of sealer.  On the other hand, if you want to use them, the rattle cans are easily applied, but still require sealer.   What I'd recommend, and what I do more often than not, is look in arts & crafts for metalics... 

There's two products I use extensively, one being a rattle can of Krylon Premium Sterling Silver metalic for Polished Aluminum.  This needs to be applied over  gloss black for best results.  It can then be masked in various places and shot with clear flat or gloss to give different panels different shades.  Use it in conjunction with other Model Master sprays.  It doesn't require buffing to bring out it's shine and is shiny enough to reflect a fingertip... The other I use is Silver Rub & Buff...   It's a paste that comes in a tube and you apply it with a Q-tip, brush, or finger... It takes parcatice, so don't use it without practicing on a paint hulk and on several different undercoat colors.

All that said, and given that you're doing a Strike Eagle, most of this won't matter since you're using that dark  grey more than anything... I imagine that the most you're using the metalic for is for the 'burner-cans and such areas of the tail-feathers.. I'd use Testor's Model Master Steel for that area, and brush it on, with a wash made up of 10 parts thinner and 1 part burnt umber or black, then drybrush with Aluminum... You might have to add a bit more color to the wash at 10-1, but use that as a starting point.  You can always add more color or add more layers, but it's hard to take it out...  Remember that your wash will dry lighter than it appears when it goes on too, by about a third to half..

Claer as mud, right?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    February 2010
Posted by Juicebox on Friday, February 12, 2010 10:13 PM

Hans von Hammer

2- Clear gloss (generally-speaking, acrylic over enamel, enamel or laquer over acrylic)

Wait, so acrylics can go over enamels, and enamels can go over acrylics, and the only DON'T is lacquer over enamel?  Did I just waste my money buying modelmaster flat and gloss clearcoat bottles (both say lacquer)?

Guess I'll be getting Future ( I do have an airbrush) or some hobby acrylic clear.  The future seems nice since it comes in larger quantities...

Oh, and thanks for the other tips, Hans, about the Eagle.  I'm thinking of using the metalizer  for this SNJ Texan I also got (had a sweet metallic paint job on the side of the box).  So that was mainly on my mind when asking that last part.

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Hayward, CA
Posted by MikeV on Saturday, February 13, 2010 12:09 AM

Juicebox

Wait, so acrylics can go over enamels, and enamels can go over acrylics, and the only DON'T is lacquer over enamel?  Did I just waste my money buying modelmaster flat and gloss clearcoat bottles (both say lacquer)?

No, you can spray lacquer over enamels or acrylics, the key is how to do it.

First off, make sure the paint underneath the clear lacquer is dry and second, spray the first coat or two of the clear lacquer in a "mist" coat. That is a light coat from a little farther back from the surface so that the clear coat dries quickly after it hits the paint on the model so as not to attack it. If you blast lacquer on in a heavy, wet coat it can and will attack the paint under it. So give it maybe two light, mist coats of your clear lacquer , let it dry a couple minutes, and then a heavier, wetter coat of the clear lacquer. The two mist coats will act as a barrier to protect the enamel from the "hotter" ingredients in lacquer going over it.  

Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom. " Charles Spurgeon
  • Member since
    February 2010
Posted by Juicebox on Saturday, February 13, 2010 12:42 AM

Awesome guys, thanks for the help!  Hopefully it gets warm enough sometime this week for me to get outside and start painting.  Will update!

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Saturday, February 13, 2010 12:39 PM

Wait, so acrylics can go over enamels, and enamels can go over acrylics, and the only DON'T is lacquer over enamel?  Did I just waste my money buying modelmaster flat and gloss clearcoat bottles (both say lacquer)?

What Mike said... Testor's Gloss & Dullcoats are fine to use...

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