So I have an airbrush that sits in a box...

keilau

 

 

 

I like the cone nozzle design of the Iwata Eclipse better than the screwed-on micro-tip nozzle used on the Badgers.

Just one minor clarification:  The micro-tip on the Renegades, including the Velocity, don't screw in.  They are held in place by compression.   So there are no tiny threads to break or strip.  The screw-in tips on other Badger models are part of the head assembly and normally don't have to be removed.  The entire tip/head is a replaceable part.

Don

Bgrigg

Dunno about "no brainer", but you can get a Badger 100LG for $72 or the Renegade Velocity for $100.50 delivered (includes shipping!) from Dixie Art. They also sell the Iwata HP-CS for $119.95, though you'll have to add on $9.95 shipping. Chicago Airbrush is selling the Iwata HP-CS for $119.95 with free shipping, but that sale ends this Friday.

I don't have a Hobby Lobby, but if they are anything like Michaels, I wouldn't reward them with a purchase. Michaels inflate their prices and then offer 40% off coupons which only reduce their price to the regular prices found elsewhere. Which means they are deliberately ripping off unsuspecting buyers. YMMV

I like the cone nozzle design of the Iwata Eclipse better than the screwed-on micro-tip nozzle used on the Badgers. But it is a personal choice. From all the reviews and physical description of the Velocity, I don't see any difference in detailing between the Velocity and the Iwata CS. The Iwata needle has a equal or longer taper compared to the Velocity needle.

The 40% off Iwata price is no better than the free shipping price from Chicago Airbrush. The no brainer part is that why not just drive down to the local store instead of waiting for the across state shipping? Sooner or later, the nozzle and needle needs to be replaced. Hobby Lobby offers the best price when the 40% coupon is used. I added a 0.5 mm nozzle and needle set to complement the standard 0.35 mm nozzle for just <$14 for the CS. The versatility and the low price of replacement parts for the Iwata CS are both part of my comments when a HL store is nearby. If no HL store nearby, yes, the Iwata is not a no brainer, but still in the running for technical reasons.

Dunno about "no brainer", but you can get a Badger 100LG for $72 or the Renegade Velocity for $100.50 delivered (includes shipping!) from Dixie Art. They also sell the Iwata HP-CS for $119.95, though you'll have to add on $9.95 shipping. Chicago Airbrush is selling the Iwata HP-CS for $119.95 with free shipping, but that sale ends this Friday.

I don't have a Hobby Lobby, but if they are anything like Michaels, I wouldn't reward them with a purchase. Michaels inflate their prices and then offer 40% off coupons which only reduce their price to the regular prices found elsewhere. Which means they are deliberately ripping off unsuspecting buyers. YMMV

keilau

It is a no brainer with Hobby Lobby in the area. Get the Iwata Eclipse HP-CS with the 40% coupon. You may have to make second trip thruough the cashier to get the hose. In the future, replacement needle and nozzle are in stock item and cheaper than anywhere else with the coupon.

Iwata HP-CS retails for $179.  With a 40% coupon it brings the price to $115 with tax.  I could handle that.

Didn't realize that, thanks!

JWrockets

I haz a hoze.  And a Sprayit 600-13 compressor.  It was free.

No one can argue against a FREE compressor. The old Thomas is good to go with the Iwata HP-CS. Check you hose to avoid frustration. If it is for a Badger airbrush, you will need a new hose or an adaptor.

I haz a hoze.  And a Sprayit 600-13 compressor.  It was free.

JWrockets

 

Bgrigg:

 

 I even went "retro" and bought a El Cheapo external mix clone of the lowly Badger 350 POS.

 

 

I resemble that remark!  But mine is a GENUINE Badger 350 that I picked up years ago at a garage sale for $10.  Still never been used.  I'll fix that soon enough.  Maybe May.  I'm in the market myself.  Hobby Lobby is in the area.  So I too, am pondering the great AB quandries:  Single or double?  and siphon or gravity? 

These are the questions.

It is a no brainer with Hobby Lobby in the area. Get the Iwata Eclipse HP-CS with the 40% coupon. You may have to make second trip thruough the cashier to get the hose. In the future, replacement needle and nozzle are in stock item and cheaper than anywhere else with the coupon.

If that is your only airbrush, come back to get a set of 0.5 mm nozzle and needle for $13. It allows more flexibility in covering larger area. You may not need this if you do not build larger scale.

If you also need a compressor, the Sparmax TC-2000 is an excellent choice.

Bgrigg

 I even went "retro" and bought a El Cheapo external mix clone of the lowly Badger 350 POS.

I resemble that remark!  But mine is a GENUINE Badger 350 that I picked up years ago at a garage sale for $10.  Still never been used.  I'll fix that soon enough.  Maybe May.  I'm in the market myself.  Hobby Lobby is in the area.  So I too, am pondering the great AB quandries:  Single or double?  and siphon or gravity? 

These are the questions.

Thanks, I never thought about looking for how to videos online.

Bgrigg

What's important is to USE the airbrush!

I know this is my biggest hold up, but like I said once the weather warms up hopefully I can have it all set up to reduce my excuses not to use it.

I agree with Killjoy. I didn't have a choice in airbrushes when I started. A friend of mine said he had an old one that he wasn't going to ever use again, and would I be interested? Free airbrush with a compressor? SURE!

It was the trusty Badger 150 dual action, and boy what a learning curve that was! I learned that old airbrushes have crushed washers, gummy triggers and blunt needles. But I also learned how to disassemble and rebuild them, and eventually I'll learn to use it properly.

I moved up to a 100LG when I had the chance, and found that while it was just a gravity fed version of the 150, the lower pressure gave better control and fine lines became easier. I even went "retro" and bought a El Cheapo external mix clone of the lowly Badger 350 POS. And was pleasantly surprised when I discovered it actually worked! I even got a 200-20 "detail" single action. And I've discovered that a single action, with its set once needle is a real pleasure to use when you need absolute simplicity, and perfect consistency.

The best airbrush to get first is a quality airbrush. It doesn't matter if its single or dual action, or siphon or gravity fed. What's important is to get a quality tool, and practice, practice and practice.

Airbrushes don't really cost that much money. Lots of kits cost far more, and careful shopping can net you some real deals. What's important is to USE the airbrush!

brickshooter

I think that it's a big mistake for any beginner to start with a single action.   After a while, one gets so used to one's brush that relearning how to use a double action becomes a big hindrance.

I have to respectfully disagree.  I learned on a Badger 200NH, single action, and used it contentedly for a couple years.  I learned about proper thinning, working to find the right PSI and distance to target, how to do 'proper' passes, and a multitude of other lessons from my time with a single action airbrush. 

When I was comfortable and consistent, I realized I wanted more control than I could achieve with a single action, so I bought a Badger 100LG, and practiced.  The transition was smoother than I had expected, and I can't imagine not having a double action now.  But my 200 still gets alot of use.  I spray base coats, larger areas, and finishes (top coats) with it. 

I guess what I am saying is that it will be different for everyone.  Some folks learn to drive a stick, others start with an automatic, and maybe learn stick later.  Don't get intimidated by a double action, but don't think of a good quality single action brush as training wheels!

I think that it's a big mistake for any beginner to start with a single action.   After a while, one gets so used to one's brush that relearning how to use a double action becomes a big hindrance.

The best way is to simply get a decent double action, then get on You-Tube and watch instructional videos of on how to use it.

Then do it.

Aaron,

Don't make the mistake I did when I got my first AB.  I too almost stopped using it because my expectations were completely wrong.  I assumed an AB was a fancy rattle can.  You know, put the paint in and spray out a beautiful, smooth finish.   An AB is a difficult tool to master but like most all tools, after alot of practice, it can be mastered.  Don't give up!!

Rich

Thanks, that is exactly what I wanted to know. Basically if I can't get excited to use the airbrush I have, then another won't help.

The comment about the brush painting is a good observation, luckily I learned to brush paint when I was young so that is a big part of my issue with an airbrush, between spray cans and brush painting I can do a lot of what  want. Its only when I get to the special stuff that only an airbrush can really do well (German and Italian Camo) that I really get an urge to give it a try. The frustration isn't so much how the attempts turn out, that hasn't been a real issue (single color paint jobs are not that hard), it just seems like a lot of work.

I do use acrylics and the fast drying times was another problem, it seemed like I was cleaning the brush several times during my paint jobs. I've since learned about using retarders, which I will try the next time I decide to try out the airbrush. Now that I have a spray booth maybe I can get everything all set up to eliminate all the extra prep work other than cleaning the airbrush.

I understand the practice end, I took lots of music classes as a child and teenager (piano, guitar, violin, somekind of flute thing, recorder?). I don't play any instruments these days either.

Triarius

 

MikeV:

 

 

Triarius:

 

My personal recommendation for a new brush would be a Thayer & Chandler (Badger) Omni 2000. Very versatile without changing needles or heads, siphon feed, and with acrylics, especially, a breeze to clean—even when  you tear it completely down at the end of a session.

 

 

Omni 2000? There is no such animal Ross.

Did you mean the Omni 3000 or the Vega 2000?

 

 

Zzzzzz…Snort! Eh? Wha…? Who turned on the light?

That's an Omni 4000. Two thousand, four thousand, whatever…

Wow Ross you really are sleepy my friend!  The Omni 4000 is a gravity-feed airbrush and you said it was a siphon-feed.

MikeV

 

Triarius:

 

My personal recommendation for a new brush would be a Thayer & Chandler (Badger) Omni 2000. Very versatile without changing needles or heads, siphon feed, and with acrylics, especially, a breeze to clean—even when  you tear it completely down at the end of a session.

 

 

Omni 2000? There is no such animal Ross.

Did you mean the Omni 3000 or the Vega 2000?

Zzzzzz…Snort! Eh? Wha…? Who turned on the light?

That's an Omni 4000. Two thousand, four thousand, whatever…

Well, I use both, and the one area I find single actions to be superior is the ability to dial in the line width and keep it consistent. I use my 100LG 95% of the time, but when I want consistently thin lines, I pull out my 200-20.

That is not due to dual action airbrushes being unable to do the same, that's my lack of talent. I can preach practice, practice, practice, but have a hard time converting the preaching into doing!

Triarius

My personal recommendation for a new brush would be a Thayer & Chandler (Badger) Omni 2000. Very versatile without changing needles or heads, siphon feed, and with acrylics, especially, a breeze to clean—even when  you tear it completely down at the end of a session.

Omni 2000? There is no such animal Ross.

Did you mean the Omni 3000 or the Vega 2000?

Not much I can really add to what has been said already.

An airbrush is one of those tools that you have to learn to love using and when that happens you will wonder why you waited so long. I do not for a moment think a single-action airbrush is any easier at all, as it's all about spending the time to become proficient that matters. Pulling back on the trigger of a double-action airbrush is no harder than adjusting the spray pattern on a single-action model and the double-action is much more versatile!

I learned to airbrush on the Paasche VL many years ago and then I changed to a T&C Vega 2000 and got into T-shirt airbrushing. Then I tried a gravity-feed airbrush for modeling and I have never looked back.

Spend some time becoming proficient with that VL and you can paint much more than any rattle can could ever dream of.

Airbrushes are intimidating, and the learning curve is steep at first. But once you really start getting into their use, you will find you want to avoid brushes and use the airbrush whenever you can.

I also recommend learning with acrylics, as they make the whole process easier, especially cleaning.

My personal recommendation for a new brush would be a Thayer & Chandler (Badger) Omni 2000. Very versatile without changing needles or heads, siphon feed, and with acrylics, especially, a breeze to clean—even when  you tear it completely down at the end of a session.

It's sort of like learning to ride a bike—frustration and skinned knees at first, but then you start skimming along.

Aaron, I got a set of 6 double action airbrushes from ebay for about $125 Aussie. Which included one that is exactlly the same as one I had bought before and was $50 by itself. I would compare the look of this one airbrush to a nice Iwata, but less than 1/3 the price and have had no problems with it at all. It has a .2mm tip, micro air control, 7ml gravity feed cup and double action. I was a bit frustrated at first as it would spray for a bit and then stop, back flush, spray and stop again. Make sure that your paint is thin enough for the pressure and size of tip you are using and you will be fine. As has been mentioned, PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE, and then PRACTICE some more. After a few sessions of just loading it up,playing with consistancies of paint and air pressure you be more confident and then won't want to put the thing down. So give ebay a try and just type in 'airbrush' in the search, you'll be surprised at what will come up. Anyway, I hope something I said helps you out lol,

The Paasche VL is a very good AB but it's an older design & not as easy to strip & clean as some of the newer designs.  I sold mine long ago & now use a Badger 100LG & Iwata CR.  However, if you want to start over, I'd go with the Paashe H single action Siphon feed.  It's very simple to use & cleaning is a snap.  It wont handle the more intricate camo patterns or mottle as well as the VL or other double action gravity feed AB's, but it will handle probably 90% of your painting needs very well.  Keep the VL & when you get comfortable with the H, go back & give it another chance.

Regards,  Rick

Aaron, I feel that it is solely a lack of practice that keeps your VL in the box. Take the time to learn how to use your airbrush using ink and paper instead of paint and styrene. Once you've learned the techniques, then practice some more using acrylics on styrene. After some practice you'll find that the airbrush is a superior way of painting models.

I say practice with acrylics as they are easy to strip off the model and repaint, time after time. Some people recommend using pop bottle or milk jugs, and I used to be one of them, but just about everyone I know has a kit that never got finished. Pull it and your airbrush out of the closet and get practicing!

Aaronw,

I can really comment on your specific brush as I am not familiar with it, but I don't know that the logic works? Yes double actions are slightly more complex to operate & strip, but not that much that it should really make a difference.

No matter what sort of brush you have, depending on what arrangements you have, you are still going to have to crash the compressor out, hook everything up, prep the paint, spray & clean / pack away at the end of shift. I don't really think weather the brush is single or double will make any noticeable difference here, although it is very possible that an easily maintained / cleaned airbrush as opposed to a tool requiring, fiddly & awkward brush will make a difference.

I assume that you paint by brush? I see some brush painted work occasionally that astounds me because it is so smooth & flawless & for these people I can understand why they feel the whole airbrush thing is "over equipping" & a waste of time & money. I am not one of these people & find the time / money spent in airbrushing to be well worthwhile - my airbrush gives me a finish that pleases me, whereas if I only had regular brushes, I would probably have gotten out of the hobby as quickly as I got back into it.

My first & current airbrush is a double action & I cant say I have ever thought "wish I had got a single". Bar a few more parts & much more control, there is little difference & considering where I am now, I am glad I didn't go single action as I suspect I would have pretty quickly been looking for a double action. I do all my painting with acrylic & do it beside a sink, so clean up is pretty effortless, l will admit that on my first few outings with my "trusty steed" I found the whole clean up thing a huge pain as I was treating the brush with Kidd gloves, but now that I am familiar with it & more confident, its a breeze - a full strip & clean up only takes a minute or two.

Maybe you are too good with a regular brush to see the benefits?

Maybe your airbrush isn't the easiest to maintain?

Maybe you haven't given yourself a chance to become familiar with it?

Maybe you need to do a bit of practice & then do a complete kit (primer, colors & clears) to see the benefits?

Maybe I talk too much?

Hello Aaron,

I wouldn't do it. With a Paasche, or probably any other double action airbrush, you can easily set it up to work as single action if you have such desire. You can do it in one of two ways: First one would be to use a special screw present on some Paasches that "opens" the needle so you just need to press the trigger for air and there you paint. If you dont have that setting on your airbrush (and it looks like a little wheel just showing aft of the trigger) you can always try to retract the needle other way, like fixing it a little further back, so it doesn't close fully. Other way of converting would be to take a gasket out of the air valve, to allow the air to flow all the time, and then you would only have single "needle" action left. That's how my first airbrush worked, the famous "Russian Noname" airbrush - many polish modellers learned their first airbrush skills on that machine in the early nineties. In my opinion the second way would probably allow you to learn faster.

Now my own airbrush is a Paasche VJR and compared to my old Russian it is SO easy to maintain. The only reason I didn't completely give up on the Russian is it has higher output good for painting larger surfaces. But after eadch painting you have to disassemble it and clean every part. The paint line, from the tank to the nozzle point is about 20mm compared to like 7mm on the VJR - so much easier to clean.

In the end I'd like to recomment a way of learning to you - maybe just don't convert what you got, just keep the air open most of the time and just operate the needle forward and back. Practice is the key here anyhow, no matter what you buy. I wish you success, airbrushing gives an entirely new dimension to modelling, so I hope you'll get there soon. Happy modelling and have a nice day

Pawel