a little help please

Most likely culprit is spraying from too great of a distance. For surface spraying, I'm normally between 2-4". For detail work I can get to almost touching the surface.

I've had the same thing happen from time to time with Tamiya acrylics. As Bgrigg has mentioned, youseem to be able to get away with being alittle closer to the surface when using acrylics, my experience anyway. Also maybe try a little more thinner? It takes a little practice to get that ratio right.

Vance

Sigh…

Xtracrylics are supposed to be thinned with either their proprietary thinner or water. What on earth possessed you to use windshield washer fluid, which is mostly alcohol? You're lucky you didn't gum up the airbrush.

Unless you understand how to test solvent-paint compatibility, don't experiment, especially in the airbrush, and don't necessarily trust what you read on the web or hear from "experts" at the LHS—undoubtedly where you got the idea. Fortunately, apparently Xtracrylics are not terribly incompatible with alcohol.

If an alcohol type solvent is called for, use a pure form, not something made for a specific purpose. Some windshield fluids contain other solvents besides water and alcohol, not to mention a colorant that may change the color of the dried paint.

But the alcohol is part of the problem. The affect you describe is caused by the paint drying before it gets to the surface. This happens when you use the wrong reducing solvent, have the brush too far away, or are spraying at too high a pressure.

Switch to distilled water. Get closer. Drop your airbrush pressure to about 15 psi for a siphon fed, 10 psi for a gravity fed brush.

Goodness...........

Tact???????????

Michael B

Goodness...........

Tact???????????

If you'd dealt with this, and similar sorts of things, as often as I have, you'd be a little acerbic, too. My irritation is not with the one who asked the question, so much as those who misinformed him/her. I am unutterably weary of pundits who only think they know what they are talking about, and cause others who follow their advice grief—like those who use screwdrivers as pry-bars.

The reasons for using the right tool or material are simple:

1. Things are less likely to go wrong.
2. When things do go wrong, there is one less variable that has to be eliminated to find the cause.

For over twenty-six years I made a very lucrative living telling people how to clean up the messes caused by the underinformed (to use the tactful term). Now I do it for free. But I'm getting tired of repeating myself.

Since I'm being curmudgeonly, I'd like to point out that a better search function for the forum might have allowed our original poster to avoid the problem, altogether.

thinned with windsceen washer fluid and a touch of acrylic retarder 

Like the man said, windscreen washer fluid is mostly alcohol, which evaporates faster than water.. But then, you added retarder, which slows drying... All I can ask is, "why?"

However, being as I don't use water, just alcohol, the alcohol is probably the culprit, although some washer fluids contain detergent too..... If you do use distilled or tap water, you're gonna want to add a wetting agent, like dish-soap... Doesn't take much, just a drop or two, depending on the size of your mixing cup.. Stir, do NOT shake it to mix.. Inless you like bubbles, that is...

I don't know anything about the brand of paint you use, but not all acrylics mix with alcohol... Vallejo, for instance, doesn't like it... Tamiya does, however, and so do most of brands found in the art supplies at your local arts & crafts store... You may want to experiment with thise, by the way... They're much, MUCH, cheaper than the paints designed by the model companies, and aside from the goofy names, match up with military and railroad colors quite well... You're just going to have bring your color samples with you to see if "Flat Military Green" matches "Kentucky Spring Moss"...

morefirejules08

i bought an airbrush over the christmas period and have enjoyed spraying small parts as practice but last night i sprayed the whole underside of my 1/48 phantom and all started well but after a few mins the paint started to come out  well the only way i can describe it is like sand paper, if you run your hand over the paint once dry it was quite rough, i did manage to polish it to a reasonable finish but i would like to know what caused it so i doesn't happen again, so far its only happened with one paint, which was an xtracylix light grey thinned with windsceen washer fluid and a touch of acrylic retarder 

 

chhers, chris

Chris,

Bill's right, the primary cause of the sandpaper-like finish is probably holding the airbrush too far away from the surface. This causes the paint to dry too soon, sometimes on the way to the surface, rather than leveling on the surface. When I started airbrushing, it was hard to convince myself to hold the brush close to the surface for fear of paint runs. Practice convinced me to hold it closer and keep it moving/ There's a fine line between the right amount of paint on the surface for it to level some versus too much.

Cheers, Aaron

I've used that craft paint from the arts and crafts store and found out all of them don't like alcohol.  When mixed with alcohol they will curdle and cause large lumps of paint.  After experimenting I found the right combination of reducing agents to use to be able to spray them from an airbrush.

Yeah, that's the same way I found out about Vallejo and alcohol don't work... But, if I can't use alcohol to reduce them, I simply quit buying them... Like Vallejo... Most swear by it, I swear AT it, lol..

These days, I use acrylics like Tamiya, but sparingly (meaning that if I can't find a color by anyone else that is accurate enough, I'll use the Tami)... Like Feldgrau... Tamiya makes the only color of it that closely matches my 1/1 scale German uniforms.  Of course, I use the Tami Black, White, and Yellow to shade the Feldgrau and others, and I use their US O.D., JA Green, and Schwarzgrun as well...  Overall though, I prefer Model Master and regular Testor's enamels... Enamels just flat perform better for me, in an airbrush especially... Always have...

Still... I'm not all that comfortable with an airbrush, even though I've had several... For one and two-color camouflage schemes, even US Navy Three-color ones, I prefer a rattle-can over the Paasche... 

triarius: thanks for the advise but did you need to put "sigh" at the top of your post?? your advise was top notch but your bedside manor leaves a bit to be desired!

hans: i used window washer fluid as i did some internet research and this came up, apparently its pretty much the same make up as tamiya thinner,! i added retarder because alchohol drives quickly, i guess its a bit like your water and wetting agent, you counter the negative properties!

as for the spraying, i used a different colour and mixed with water and sprayed closed and guess what?.......... after 5 mins of spaying i got the sand paper affect!!!, it sprays nicely for a few mins then starts with the sand paper, funnily enough though, i was spraying anose cone black with revell acrylics using washer fluid and retarder and had no problems,

think i might pick myself up som xtracrylix thinners and see how i get on with that combination

cheers, chris

Triarius

Michael B:

Goodness...........

Tact???????????

 

If you'd dealt with this, and similar sorts of things, as often as I have, you'd be a little acerbic, too. My irritation is not with the one who asked the question, so much as those who misinformed him/her. I am unutterably weary of pundits who only think they know what they are talking about, and cause others who follow their advice grief—like those who use screwdrivers as pry-bars.

The reasons for using the right tool or material are simple:

1. Things are less likely to go wrong.
2. When things do go wrong, there is one less variable that has to be eliminated to find the cause.

For over twenty-six years I made a very lucrative living telling people how to clean up the messes caused by the underinformed (to use the tactful term). Now I do it for free. But I'm getting tired of repeating myself.

Since I'm being curmudgeonly, I'd like to point out that a better search function for the forum might have allowed our original poster to avoid the problem, altogether.

Not trying to be a smart alec Triarius, but do you somehow feel obligated to answer questions that upset you.  Some of the other fellows could likely handle a some of the queries with acceptable answers.  Many, many capable folks in here!!   

Static Addict

Not trying to be a smart alec Triarius, but do you somehow feel obligated to answer questions that upset you.  Some of the other fellows could likely handle a some of the queries with acceptable answers.  Many, many capable folks in here!!   

And Ross is THE most capable, given that he, unlike most people here, actually worked in the paint industry.

What did he say that was so tactless and unacceptable? "What on earth" or "Sigh?

Had I been more on the ball in my post, I would have pointed out that Xtracrylics shouldn't be thinned with alcohol. I've never figured out why people use windshield washer fluid (and pardon 427 Cobra, but it's NOT ammonia, but methyl alcohol, isopropanol, ethyl glycol or methanol), instead of a 'proper' thinner, and then wonder why they're having trouble!

Thanks, Bill, but the original poster could have felt my exasperation was directed at him—been in the same position myself. Nevertheless…

Any road, to clear a few other things up:

Any windshield washer fluid that contains ammonia will attack the rubber (synthetic or otherwise) sealing the vehicle's windshield, the wiper blades, and the components of the windshield washer system: seals, hoses, etc. Such fluids made for automotive use should never contain ammonia.

Window washing fluids often do contain ammonia. They should not be used in automotive systems. I knew someone who did this, a secretary where I worked asked us why her windshield was leaking. The rubber seal was deteriorating, and she was replacing wiper blades every two months. Opened washer reservoir and was almost knocked over by the smell of ammonia. She had to replace the whole washer system and seals around the window. Cost about a grand, IIRC. She thought window cleaning fluid was all the same.

Ammonia is a queer compound. From its formula, it looks like it should be an acid, and it forms compounds as a metal. However, when mixed with water, part of the ammonia hydrolyses the water forming ammonium hydroxide. Rather than losing one of the three hydrogen atoms bound to its nitrogen, ammonia takes a hydrogen from a water molecule, forming an ammonium ion and a hydroxide ion. Ammonia solutions are weakly basic.

well nothing quite like starting a heated debate! anyway, i had another go today with the same paint but took the pressure down, sprayed closer and open the needle up, and but for a run here and there, the finish is much better!! so now i just have to improve my technique and we're all good,

also i would have replaced the paint by now but it has to be ordered from my lhs and takes a couple of weeks to get in so im using this paint up before i order more

cheers, chris

Bgrigg...I was not giving tiarius a hard time-just the opposite.  I thought if it stressed him to answer some questions he may want to hand the ball off.  Anyway, my wife and I spent a good deal of last summer at the RV resort there on Duck Lake.  Toured both the Columbia and Okanagan Vallies in our motorhome.  Just spectacular country you live in!! 

Static Addict

Bgrigg...I was not giving tiarius a hard time-just the opposite.  I thought if it stressed him to answer some questions he may want to hand the ball off.  Anyway, my wife and I spent a good deal of last summer at the RV resort there on Duck Lake.  Toured both the Columbia and Okanagan Vallies in our motorhome.  Just spectacular country you live in!! 

This is the problem with the internet, no context to voice or emotion! Sorry if it felt like I was giving you a smack. That was not my intent! Ross is typically one of the most patient people on the forum and I consider him a friend. I hope there are no hard feelings?

Were you staying at the Holiday Part Resort at Duck Lake? I've never been there except a friend rented the park on the lake for his daughter's wedding. Looked like a nice place to RV in. I hope you enjoyed your stay!

Yes, I'm lucky to live in the Okanagan, it's a great place to be!

Yes Bgrigg, Holiday Park Resort in Winfield.  Very nice facility.  We were there for the month of August last summer.  The picture of my RC boat in the avatar to the left was taken at Duck Lake.  I know what you mean about the internet.....tough to make a joke or use sarcasm or kid.  No hard feelings at all.      

Static Addict

Yes Bgrigg, Holiday Park Resort in Winfield.  Very nice facility.  We were there for the month of August last summer.  The picture of my RC boat in the avatar to the left was taken at Duck Lake.  I know what you mean about the internet.....tough to make a joke or use sarcasm or kid.  No hard feelings at all.      

Exactly the reason why we use "smileys" like these when we are joking:

So who asked you anyway MikeV??????....How's that?????