Single sized neede/nozzle brushes???

Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Single sized neede/nozzle brushes???

Posted by Anonymous on Monday, January 5, 2004 12:58 PM

I currently have a Paasche VL and am currently looking for a brush that is easy to clean, and will allow for a fairly fine line.

I've been looking at several brushes, and was wondering how the brushes that use a "single needle/nozzle" for thin lines to broad strokes works. With the Paasche and several other brushes, you've usually got several different needle/nozzle combos you can use depending on how much detail you're going for, or if you need to push out heavier paints. Do the single needle/nozzle combos simply rely on you adusting your air pressure or technique, or is there some sort of adjustment that you use to go from fine line to broader stroke?

I know you can adjust line width based on the air pressue, viscosity of the paint, and the distance you paint from your subject...but is there a reason why these single needle brushes wouldn't benefit from different needle sizes as well, if you're just using the same techniques as you would a brush that has a smaller or larger needle? Surely there's something more to it than that?

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Swanny

Member since
February 2003
From: Sandusky Ohio, USA

Posted by Swanny on Monday, January 5, 2004 1:41 PM

I have a Badger 360 that uses a single tip/needle for everything from fine line to large area coverage. It's very easy to clean taking about 30 seconds to change color and less than 3 minutes for a total breakdown and clean. A very solid and well designed airbrush.

Swanny's Models

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Monday, January 5, 2004 3:29 PM

I've seen a lot of really nice single needle/nozzle brushes...but the thing I was really curious about what HOW they work. Specifically, "Do the single needle/nozzle combos simply rely on you adusting your air pressure or technique, or is there some sort of adjustment that you use to go from fine line to broader stroke?" as outlined above. I don't understand how one brush needs multiple needle/nozzle combos to achieve the same thing that others can do with a single needle/nozzle.

THANKS!

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MikeV

Member since
April 2003
From: Hayward, CA

Posted by MikeV on Monday, January 5, 2004 3:38 PM

They only require one needle and tip combination because of the taper of the needle and tip design. They are designed so that if you barely pull the trigger back you get fine lines because the needle is tapered the slowest at the tip. The needle gradually gets faster tapered as it moves toward the back so that it produces much more paint the furthur the trigger is pulled back.
They won't really spray any finer of a line than one of the small #1 needles and tips that some other airbrushes use, they are just more versatile, and with only a single tip you can spray fine lines or pull the trigger all the way back and blast out a much thicker line of 1" or more. They are also more versatile in that you can spray thicker acrylics, or really thin inks without changing needles.
Try spraying acrylics that are a bit thick through your Paasche VL with a #1 tip and needle and you will see what I mean. Wink [;)]

Mike

“Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom. " Charles Spurgeon

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9x19mm

Member since
December 2003
From: Phoenix,Az

Posted by 9x19mm on Monday, January 5, 2004 7:21 PM

So if your only intending to spray a fine line for say detailing, is there a secondary needle control or do you have to keep the trigger barely pulled back? Seems like a accident waiting to happen, if you flinch then all of a sudden you have a fat line. Sorry if thats a newb question but my only airbrush experiance is with a Paasche H, but Im in the market for a upgrade.

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Monday, January 5, 2004 8:14 PM

QUOTE: Originally posted by 9x19mm

So if your only intending to spray a fine line for say detailing, is there a secondary needle control or do you have to keep the trigger barely pulled back? Seems like a accident waiting to happen, if you flinch then all of a sudden you have a fat line. Sorry if thats a newb question but my only airbrush experiance is with a Paasche H, but Im in the market for a upgrade.

I know that some brushes offer a "pre-set" handle. You know how you can pre-adjust how far back the trigger sits with a screw or thumbwheel on most double action airbrushes? Some brushes also have the same sort of set-up on the rear of the handle which limits how far back the needle can travel.

The question is then...why doesn't Paasche or any of the other companies that require multiple sized needles/tips design a similar "combo" needle for their airbrushes. If they truly do work as advertised based on the design of the needle/tip combination, then you'd think that they would save money by selling their "sets" with just the single needle/tip combination for the same price they'd normally ask for one with 3 needle/tip combinations. Or at least offer a combination style needle/tip as an aftermarket accesory. Hmmmm.

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MikeV

Member since
April 2003
From: Hayward, CA

Posted by MikeV on Monday, January 5, 2004 9:17 PM

QUOTE: Originally posted by 9x19mm

So if your only intending to spray a fine line for say detailing, is there a secondary needle control or do you have to keep the trigger barely pulled back? Seems like a accident waiting to happen, if you flinch then all of a sudden you have a fat line. Sorry if thats a newb question but my only airbrush experiance is with a Paasche H, but Im in the market for a upgrade.

If the fine line you are spraying is going along the way you like it then you have to keep the trigger at the same spot with your finger, yes.
Becoming proficient with an airbrush requires practice as there are no shortcuts like a mechanical device that keeps the airbrush right where it needs to be at all times. There are always variations in paint flow because of tip dry, etc. so you have to learn how to get the airbrush to spray the way you want it to and that comes only with practice.

Mike

“Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom. " Charles Spurgeon

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Monday, January 5, 2004 9:27 PM

All my airbrushes are single nozzel/needles, granted I got 0.2mm & 0.3mm nozzles.

I normally first adjust the trigger travel at the back of the brush to get the desired line width, forget about airbrushes that are pre-marked you will soon get a feeling for the settings and forget about the markings.
By adjusting for the maximim width you still got the option of painting finer lines than that or even lines that broaden or get thinner as you paint.

Like was said above it is all in the practice and getting to know your equipment, remember the quality of the finish depends more on your than your equipment.

As for why selling airbrushes with multiple needles and nozzles, I think that there is a demand with the fine artists for it.
No demand = no sales = end of product.

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MikeV

Member since
April 2003
From: Hayward, CA

Posted by MikeV on Monday, January 5, 2004 9:37 PM

QUOTE: Originally posted by SFPROPS

I know that some brushes offer a "pre-set" handle. You know how you can pre-adjust how far back the trigger sits with a screw or thumbwheel on most double action airbrushes? Some brushes also have the same sort of set-up on the rear of the handle which limits how far back the needle can travel.

Yes and these come in handy for illustrators spraying paints that flow easily and are predictable in the environment they paint in. These could be used for modelling also but I see no need for them as you cannot control the ratio of paint to air flow while spraying.

QUOTE: The question is then...why doesn't Paasche or any of the other companies that require multiple sized needles/tips design a similar "combo" needle for their airbrushes.

Many companies do make this style of airbrush now including Thayer & Chandler (Which Badger owns now), Badger and Iwata, but as I said earlier it is designed as an airbrush for many purposes.
These type of airbrushes were originally designed in the siphon-feed models for T-shirt artists who need an airbrush that will spray both fine lines for detail as well as putting out a lot of paint for background, etc. and the design just became popular I guess.

QUOTE: If they truly do work as advertised based on the design of the needle/tip combination, then you'd think that they would save money by selling their "sets" with just the single needle/tip combination for the same price they'd normally ask for one with 3 needle/tip combinations. Or at least offer a combination style needle/tip as an aftermarket accesory. Hmmmm.

I would say that is because some people want a choice of the needle and tip size they use and don't want the single-size as some of the of newer ones offer.

I will have to get back to you on this answer because I really dont't know why. Wink [;)]

Mike

“Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom. " Charles Spurgeon

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MikeV

Member since
April 2003
From: Hayward, CA

Posted by MikeV on Monday, January 5, 2004 10:07 PM

QUOTE: Originally posted by MadModelFactory

Like was said above it is all in the practice and getting to know your equipment, remember the quality of the finish depends more on your than your equipment.

That is the truth MMF.

I asked my buddy who has been in the airbrush business of painting custom automotive graphics for close to 30 years about people wanting a Sotar or a Micron for modeling and he said this:

"Mike,
I can get just as fine a line out of a $10 Ebay sold Taiwanese knockoff as I can with a Sotar or Micron using the same paints. It isn't the tool so much as it is the developed skill. A Ferrari can be more fun to drive, but a Toyota will get you there just as well."

I think that sums it up quite nicely. Big Smile [:D]

Mike

“Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom. " Charles Spurgeon

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9x19mm

Member since
December 2003
From: Phoenix,Az

Posted by 9x19mm on Wednesday, January 7, 2004 7:09 AM

Thx mmf thats all I needed to know. Like I said I have only used a single action airbrush and am kinda nervous about how double actions work. Im getting to the point where I should get a double action and go for it.

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plasticmod992

Member since
January 2003
From: The Hoosier State

Posted by plasticmod992 on Friday, January 9, 2004 3:54 PM

Some single needle/nozzle airbrushes I use for 1/72nd scale and 1/48 aircraft are:

1. Iwata Revolution HP-CR (.5mm) good for detail as well as wide area single colors, good general purpose airbrush
2. Eclipse HP-CS (.35mm) excellent fine detail, moderate wide area
3. Eclipse HP-BCS (.5mm) excellent atomization, moderate detail, good wide area coverage, very versitile

Greg Williams Owner/ Manager Modern Hobbies LLC Indianapolis, IN. IPMS #44084

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