Sotar History

jr, be sure and let us know how it works out for you. Looking forward to it.

brickshooter, any answers about parts swapping?

I've been having a blast with the one I got. Just about finished a 1/72 VooDoo in SEA camo and did all the spraying with the Sotar. My first freehand camo too. I'll post some pics in the Aircraft section tomorrow hopefully, it should be done then. The build has a couple problems but painting wasn't one of them. I used DuPont primer, MM enamels, Metalizers, lacquers and Acryll, Future and Alclad from as low as 5-6psi to 13-15psi. Although I had to go to about 20psi for Burnt Iron Metalizer. I have to do things a little differently than with my 360U(as in thinning) but once I got that in my head all was well.

It isn't a brush I'd choose to shoot a basecoat or prime a large kit but for smaller subjects it can be a *general purpose* brush. I haven't quite got the hang of those *rediculously fine* white lines yet but haven't really been trying either. When I need it I'll find a combination that works. Even if it means uros...

Tony

Hello
I bought a 2020's freakflexpaint.com, just not yet got a hose to it. Hence, when able I'll do some tests here and put to galera.ok
The mine is also missing the part 20-113!
A big hug for everyone
jr (Brazil)

I don't remember the brand and it's down in the basement. Got it at Walmart but I imagine most any pharmacy would have it. Probably a 2 - 3 ounce bottle for $2.95. I believe it says 99.5% pure. I just started using it, haven't had any problems and it does help with flow and tipdry. The only negative I've read is that if you use too much then you may have adhesion problems so if you use it and are going to be taping/masking over experiment first. Not sure where the too much line is. Yet.

Tony

Wingman_kz

I found that some people use glycerin as a retarder/flow enhancer so I gave that a try with Tamiya flat black. I use denatured alcohol in Tamiya flats so I added 4 - 5 drops glycerin to an ounce of alcohol and thinned with that. Worked pretty well. I added a few more drops and was able to shoot at 12 - 15psi continuously for 30 minutes or so with no tipdry and with a nice black line.

Tony,

what brand/type of glycerin are you using ?  I have heard of folks doing this, but haven't tried it.

Thanks!

Chris

Have you tried shooting any white yet? That's fun.

I've mainly been using different blacks. Whites are going to have the highest concentration of pigments with black not far behind. But far enough that white's a different ballgame. At least it has been for me. I found that some people use glycerin as a retarder/flow enhancer so I gave that a try with Tamiya flat black. I use denatured alcohol in Tamiya flats so I added 4 - 5 drops glycerin to an ounce of alcohol and thinned with that. Worked pretty well. I added a few more drops and was able to shoot at 12 - 15psi continuously for 30 minutes or so with no tipdry and with a nice black line. Also tried some Createx thinned with water and a drop or two of Liquitex retarder and it did ok too.

Then I tried white. Tamiya gloss and flat, MM enamel, PlastiKote Touch Up lacquer, Createx and finally Golden Fluid acryl. Tamiya would spray for a few minutes and then you'd have to wipe the needle and give a little heavier shot for a second. MM and PK didn't want to spray at all. Createx reacted about the same as Tamiya but the color was very faint. Golden worked pretty well but I had to settle for thinning with water instead of getting their extender(clear) and medium. That's something I found worked with Tamiya too, add a little clear.

As I was digging through my paints over the weekend I found a bottle of Kustom Kolors black. It's a hobby enamel from Valspar or HoK. It shot really well. Even at around 5psi and with the needle almost closed. So, today I rode over to the hobby shop that came from and got a bottle of white but that didn't work out so well. The problem with it and the other whites seems to be that there is so much pigment in them that it falls out of suspension so quickly the pigment settles to the bottom of the cup and clogs the nozzle. I didn't have time to tonite but I'm gonna try mixing the KK paint with clear and then reducing to see if it helps.

So yeh, it's a finicky little brush with these paints and a fine tip/nozzle. Even a slightly larger tip/nozzle would probably help a good bit. That's why I asked if possibly the Velocity parts would physically fit. And if they do, parts from the Rage would also. That would give you an even larger tip/nozzle. And needle if you need it. There's always the possibility that these tips would work with the Sotar needle. Not to mention cost...

But all that aside, I'm happy with the brush and glad I got it. I will say that if anyone reading this is considering getting one then you might want to go with the medium tip/needle combo. As I've found out over the last couple weeks, pulling a fine line is as much about the operator as anything although a quality tool doesn't hurt either. I don't need to be able to pull a *hair line* but with the right medium this brush will do it. One other thing, all the experimenting I've been doing was to find what I needed to shoot a very fine line so that meant the smallest needle openings and whatever pressure necessary. The brush handled up to 50psi. If you open the brush up a little it sprays anything I've run through it very nicely.  Light shading or small background coverage. And it's very precise.

brickshooter, I'd appreciate it very much if you'd let me know about the parts swapping.

Tony

One warning I forgot for those interested in buying a Sotar.

They ship the brush without pulling the needle.  So be careful when taking the protective cap off for the first time to not bend the needle.

Bummer about the parts! Or maybe not. Some people like them and some don't.

You should be able to swap the needle and tip between the airbrushes, but I don't know if I would bother. As you say, the Sotar is a detail brush, and the Velocity, while capable of detail, is also more universally capable.

Update.

I emailed Badger and they responded that both the rubber pad and rubber finger guard were discontinued.  So I'm not getting them. 

Regarding the compatibility of the parts, the Velocity and Sotar share the same trigger and double prong needle guard.     They do not share the same needle and tip.  The Sotar uses a .19mm needle and tip.  The Velocity uses a .21mm needle and tip.   I was tempted to put the Velocity needle and tip intp the Sotar. but I was too busy experimenting with the first spray.

Regarding spray, the Sotar do need a higher PSI.  But what was weird was that it depended on the mix.   I sprayed Tamiya Dark Green on 12 PSI.  But had to up it to 25 PSI when spraying Tamiya Red Brown.  I suspect that they had different thinning.  Only conclusion here is that one has to be more precise when thinning paint for the Sotar than the Velocity.   On the other hand, the trigger is more precise.  So I am able to cure "spiders" by easing up on the trigger pull with the Sotar much easier than the Velocity.

Regarding balance.  The Velocity is a longer brush with weight distributed to the ends.  So if you spray a larger pattern, it's more stable.  You have to move your arm a little.    The Sotar's weight is in the center of the brush.   Add that to a shorter design, and the Sotar is more of a wrist brush.   In other words, the Velocity is better for larger coverage.  If you need to write letters, the Sotar is easier to control.

One thing that I wish the Sotar had was a cap for its small cup.   In theory, it's rougly about 1/4 the size of the Velocity.  But in reality, it's so easy to slosh the Sotar cup that I generally only fill it 1/2 way. 

Later in the week when I've more time, I'll try to use the Velocity needle and tip in the Sotar and see how that works out.

Until then...

James

brickshooter, mine didn't come with those parts in the box either. I have a couple of the trigger pads and don't like them so that was no great loss to me. Don't know that I'd use the other finger rest so I just let it go and didn't email them. Did you get fine, medium?  I've been practicing with mine(when I should have been finishing other things) but figure no one's interested in seeing more of me writing and painting on paper. Looking forward to seeing you compare the two. And since you have both, if you wouldn't mind, would you see if by chance the tips, regulators and needles can interchange? Just curious.

Tony

Brick, sorry to hear you didn't get all the parts in the box. I'm positive Badger will pony up the pieces, they are a great company to work with.

Don Wheeler

I was curious about the Badger Sotar 2020.  It looks so different from other Badger models that I suspected it might have been a purchased design rather than being done in-house.  So I e-mailed Ken Schlotfeldt.  Ken answered my questions and said I could share the information.  So I will.

The Sotar was completely designed by Badger.  It incorporates two Badger patents; the easy-access needle removal and the drop-in micro tip.  The patents were issued in 1995.  It was created to compete with the Iwata Micron.  When it was introduced in 1996, it was sold as a product of the Sotar Airbrush Company.  Badger hid their ownership because they thought people might not try it due to the fact that many considered Badger a maker of  "hobby" airbrushes.  They wanted it to be similar to the relationship of Acura to Honda.  They have since decided to market it as a Badger product, which it is.

The drop-in tip is now used in the Renegade series of airbrushes.

Has anyone here used one?  If so, what did you think of it?

Don

Don,

Well Don, I used my tax refund to become the lastest owner of a new bouncing Sotar.   I normally spray with the Velocity. So I'll add something by next week after spraying them side-by-side for a couple of days.

But out of the box is a mix experience.  The box is missing part #10 (trigger pad) and part #29 rubber finger pad.   I'm unsure whether I'll use them in normal spraying because I want my detail brush (Sotar) to be as close in feel as my general purpose brush (Velocity).    But it would be nice to get all the parts I paid for.

On the other hand, I took the brush apart and it feels like the Sotar was manufactured to finer specs.  All the parts just fits better than the Velocity from the needle to the cup.   As much as I love my Velocity, it is starting to feel as though the Velocity is a de-tuned version of the Sotar.   The Sotar trigger is smoother even after countless polishing the Velocity needle.   The inside of the Sotar cup is chromed up to 1/2 way up.  This allows one to easier identify any paint residue during cleaning.  

BTW,  one immediate difference before I even spray for the 1st time is that the Sotar feels shorter than the Velocity because the distance from the trigger to the nose is considerably shorter.  So the Sotar feels "small" in the average hand.   More delicate. Easier to handle for detailed work.   But I'm unsure how it'll feel for folks with bear paws.

Anyways, will update next week. And hopefully Badger will send the missing parts instead of stiffing me.

In my humble opinion... screw the milk carton.   All of us modelers have a gigantic stash of models hidden somewhere.   

I say to it's time to take one of these relics out and make it a sacrificial lamb to the modeling gods.

Killjoy

I'd recommend an empty milk jug, or other plastic container.  I use coffee mate flavored creamers, they have great plastic containers with lots of curves and shapes.  Spray a little rattle can primer on them, makes a great practice surface, and I use them for color testing as well. 

Chris

That is a brilliant idea... And OH, wait!  What's this??  I just happen to have put the last of my Vanilla creamer into my cup of coffee, and now have an empty container....  looks like the recycle bin will be a little bit lighter tonight...

Bgrigg

The re-brands are probably a mix and match of various parts, so that each one is "unique".

We have discovered 'Frankenbrush!"

It's Alive!  Alive!

LOL!

Considering that the Vega 1000 and Omni 5000 body share the same casting, we'll never know. The Omni is famous for the reverse-a-guard spray regulator, and the Airbrush Academy doesn't have that, so I'm still leaning towards the Vega. You're right about the 155 handle!

Vega and Omni share many parts, the o-ring that goes between the head and the body, and the air-valve are the same, so is the trigger and needle chuck.

In fact, there are many similarities between Vega/Omni and Badger. For a long time Badger was selling Vega body/Badger 155 head hybrids on their Garage Sale page. I suspect that while there are differences in nozzle size and taper, they use the same tap and dies for the mechanical assemblies, so you could screw the handle from 100LG onto a Omni 5000, 155 Anthem or Vega 1000.

The re-brands are probably a mix and match of various parts, so that each one is "unique".

Bgrigg

No, that looks like a Vega 1000 with the same coating the Sotar and Renegade line comes with, packed into the case the Renegades get shipped in.

I think it's an Omni 5000 with a different coating and the cut-out handle from a 155 anthem.

http://www.badgerairbrush.com/Omni_Airbrushes.asp

Chris

"And remember, this is paper so the paint doesn't react quite the same."

Yeh I know there's a big difference between paper and plastic, flat and shaped but I have to start somewhere and a nice flat pad propped comfortably in front of me is where I'm starting. On the sheets with the plane outline I shot several coats of Krylon Crystal Clear and let it dry completely before any airbrushing. I didn't on the other and you could tell a difference with bleed and jagged edges. On the right side of that sheet take a look at the boxes with numbers under them. Up to the box marked 1.1 I was touching the paper with the arms on the regulator. Larger openings I had to lift off the paper a half inch or so to avoid runs. Almost no noticeable overspray either on the paper or close to the paper with smaller needle openings. By the time I got to the labeled boxes I was getting some tip dry and until I opened the needle a bit I was getting some splatter. That wasn't really overspray. Once I opened the needle a bit and was still on the paper the lines were getting jagged edges but that was mostly from the paint bleeding on the paper. At that point I could have turned the pressure down but I wanted to see what happened. If you look down to the bottom of that sheet at the box with much heavier sides you can see the overspray around it. That was shot with the needle stop set at 4 or 4/5 of one revolution and 30 psi. One pass per side.

When I say I have to have one coat coverage I'm talking about lines and not spraying color coats on the body of a car or fuselage of a plane. It has to be in one coat and it can be done in one. None of the lines on any of those pictures are multiple passes, it's one pass. And yeh, it's on paper and not plastic but it's still a dark black line.

Hey, this is only spring training, opening day is a long ways off.

Tony

No, that looks like a Vega 1000 with the same coating the Sotar and Renegade line comes with, packed into the case the Renegades get shipped in.

Sotar:

http://www.badgerairbrush.com/Sotar_20-20.asp

Vega 1000 (2nd from top):

http://www.badgerairbrush.com/Vega_Airbrushes.asp

Badger makes re-branded airbrushes for a lot of different people.

Does this look like the Sotar 2020?

Airbrush ACADEMY C-FLOW cosmetic airbrush at artsupply.com.

I'd recommend an empty milk jug, or other plastic container.  I use coffee mate flavored creamers, they have great plastic containers with lots of curves and shapes.  Spray a little rattle can primer on them, makes a great practice surface, and I use them for color testing as well. 

Chris

Tony:  Do you have a spare plastic model that you can test spray on?   Paper is nice, but different from a 3-D plastic surface.   And from what distance are you spraying pencil line?  Any overspray?

Phil:  I don't think you can get one pass coverage on these type of detailed brushes.   Working with the Velocity, I don't do single passes.    The Sotar is a more detailed brush so it's probably spraying a thinner coat.

Sounds good. Yep, with the gloss Tamiya's the X-20A is the way to go. I find that when you use denatured alcohol, it tends to dull the gloss, but you have no loss with the X-20A.

Yeh Phil, wasn't going to try metallics. Acrylics are still pretty new to me but I've been experimenting. Using denatured alcohol is how I got the black to spray today. At the first mark on the collar the needle is barely even moving from closed but it still came through. Had to use higher pressure but it works. I have noticed what you say about beading with X20A and 70% iso. Haven't really used 90% that much. But with denatured you can really thin the heck out of it. I've been using X20A with the gloss paints I'm using on a car kit and not over reducing. Seems to work OK.

Tony

Hey Tony,

I find that when using Tamiya acrylics, if you thin with denatured alcohol, you can mix it pretty lean and still get it to stick. With Tamiya X-20A or Iso  pass about 60% thinner and it will start to bead and blob. I don't mix very accurately at all, but if I were to count drops, I routinely use three to four drops of thinner (denatured alcohol) to one drop of paint. I find that the denatured alcohol seems to help it "wet" better than X-20A. However, as you noted above, this often means that you don't get "one pass" coverage.

Anyway, I guess what I'm saying is that Tamiya acrylics can take a hell of a lot of thinning and still be workable. Just offering you this to see if it helps get your air pressure down a bit.

PS: Sounds like it may not be a good idea to put Tamiya metallics through your AB I suspect you'd see an instant clog. (The metallic particles in Tamiya's paints are pretty chunky.)

No problem Bill. How about a few more pictures?

Like I said, obviously I need practice. Attempting to lean a board up in my paint booth with a sheet of paper taped to it just wasn't cutting it. So, I drove over to WallyWorld and bought an inexpensive little easel and a pad of watercolor paper. Not perfect but an improvement. And it's adjustable so I can set it on a bench or table and get comfy.

It could stand to be a little heavier but helped a lot. Here's some pics of the front of the Sotar torn down. Now you can see just how small the tip is. And how sharp the needle is.

Here's the tip setting in the head.

Head installed on the brush.

Starting the hold down ring.

Hold down ring tight.

Needle inserted.

Regulator on.

And here's a couple pics of what I got done today. I scanned them in full size and reduced the quality. If you look at the full size image it's gonna be big but it's about 300k. I meant to go back with pen or pencil and draw arrows pointing from the text to whatever it's talking about but, oh well. Mostly, the words are under what it's talking about. No big deal, just trying to give a little idea of what's going on.The boxes with numbers under them represent the collar setting I shot them at. They aren't actually .1 or .2, there are 4 graduations between each whole number so that's what they represent. You can see a little splatter and some bleed or runs. Tip dry hasn't been much of a problem with Tamiya black. With very small openings occasionally I'd have to open it up and blow it out. And remember, this is paper so the paint doesn't react quite the same.

On the second drawing I played around a little with the 360 and the lines I pulled with it are in the box above *360*. Heck, I even pulled out the old Aztec and played with it a little. It's been years. Trigger didn't function all that well, most of the time you had to push it home. One tip was beyond use and I don't remember what the beige and blue tips are supposed to be but it sprayed OK. I didn't mark them but there's a few lines scattered around the top from the Aztec. Anyway, here they are, hope it isn't overload...

Tony

Tony,

True enough and I should have said "finely pigmented inks" like they do on the Badger site. My point (and I'm not trying to start an argument) is that the Sotar is designed for the professional illustrator. That we can use such a beast on models is remarkable.

High quality paint that is properly thinned, and this is one time I would recommend straining the paint, should spray with no problems. Though I can understand that a higher pressure may be required.

You are the owner of a very high end airbrush, the equal of any out there, and I know you'll do proud by it!

Bill

brickshooter, yes, two needles. One in the brush and one in a tube. And be aware, it is a very *pointy* thing. lol My old camera can't begin to capture how thin it is. And I bent it today. But it was easy to straighten. I decided to try the regulator without the protective arms/legs/wings whatever you want to call them, got a little too close and caught the needle. I had an issue with spattering/splattering earlier and couldn't understand why. I looked at the brush under the magnifying lamp and there was a single fiber sticking out the tip. I wiped out the cup with a Q TIp yesterday and figure that's where it came from. Put it back together with the unguarded tip and was spraying fine but then I got a little too close. Oh well, took the needle out and rolled it on a piece of glass under my fingernail and all was right with the world again...

Thanks for your comments guys(and for not ridiculing lol). I'm the type that generally holds back but I figure what the heck, what's it gonna hurt. But you're still not getting my social.

keilau, I had the enamel left over from shooting on some decal paper last weekend and for that reason I did thin it with MM's thinner. Normally I'd use lacquer thinner with MM enamels 'cause it works for me. Kinda ensures that they actually dry and do it quicker. Sometimes it may flatten the finish a little but that's ok with me. The Tamiya yellow was thinned with Tamiya thinner for the same reason as the MM, I didn't want to have too many variables when trying to find how paint would react on decal paper. It worked OK btw. But I also use denatured alcohol, 70% iso and 90% iso. I can't give you ratios because I don't measure, just mix till it looks right and see how it sprays. I normally make it fairly thin though. But you're kinda walking a fine line(pun intended) with thinning. Sure, there's a point you need to get to to avoid spiderwebs or orange peel or runs and sags but it also has to be thick enough for the coverage you're looking for.

In this case, one coat coverage because it's hard to enough to draw that line the first time so multiple coats are out of the question. So, there's how thin your paint is, how fast you move, distance from the target, neelde/tip opening and air pressure.

With the pressure turned down low you, I, get soft fuzzy lines because you need a larger opening/needle retracted further to get paint flow.  With this brush we're putting out a small amount of paint so to get a semi-dark line you have to move slower and the thinner your paint is the slower you have to go. But the slower you go the wider it gets and the more chance you have to wander. 

Turn up the pressure and you get paint flow sooner so you can use a smaller needle/tip opening. Smaller opening equals finer line. It also allows you to move a little faster because the amount of paint you're spraying is concentrated in a smaller area and your line is getting darker.

Turn up the pressure even more and it's all magnified. Narrower line that's darker and the ability to move a little quicker. We're getting there...

But you still have to control the airbrush. You have to be consistent and smooth. That only comes from practice. And obviously that's something I need a lot of. lol Thanks again for not laughing. At least out loud...

Bill, not to argue but I think the Sotar is designed for paints also. Just depends on how fine the pigment is. Evidently the Acryll is a little too coarse. The MM enamel shot very well and after thinning the Tamiya a little more today I was really happy with it. I was using denatured alcohol and gloss black and was able to dial the needle way down. I have a bottle of black ink I was going to try but it's been sitting for years and was starting to dry out. I misspoke last nite about the needle opening. I wasn't using 1, 1.5 or 2.5 turns out, I used less than one revolution on all of them. What I should have said was, from completely closed I was turning the needle to 1, 1.5 or 2.5 on the dial so the largest opening was about a half turn. Today I was able to shoot the Tamiya black at about .5 but I did turn the pressure up even higher. I turned the pressure up to 50psi and while spraying that was giving me about 40. It worked. But you can only go so fine...

Don't have any pictures now, not really much to show, but I'll try to post a couple later. And think I'll try Firefox, IE won't let me post media now unless I use the HTML editor.

Tony

Tony,

Did you get 2 fine needles (One in the brush, one in the tube) ?