Aztek 4709 rant

I've never used an Aztek. Some people swear by them, but is seems to me that most swear at them. I certainly hear more howls of frustration from owners of Azteks!

I use a Badger 100LG and Tamiya Acrylics. I can state with confidence that any issues and bad results are solely the fault of me, and not the tools I use.

i also use a badger, the 150, though i am planning on getting a 100LG. I have used it for years and like Bgrigg any problems are usually down to me. I did have a cheap loud copressor for year where i couldn't adjust the psi. last year i bought  a new one with all the trimmings, and my badger has really come to life. I use Tamiya Acrylics and Xtracolour enamels and as long as my brush is clean, my needle straight and my paint thinned right, it works a treat.

I'm not an a/b expert, by a long mile, but I have used one for a long time. I started with a Paasche, but it was probably "too much brush" for a beginner, what with all the adjustments needed to get it set up right. It seemed to me that if one was consistently using one medium it was great, but switching from color to color even with the same type of paint gave me fits.

I have used an Aztek for about ten years. New out of the case it was great for me. No strip down, easy tip change, light. Seems to handle all kinds of paint. Over time though, it's fallen apart. Now it's down to two tips out of a set of ten, and the grips have fallen off, I suspect one of the needles is bent, and the nozzle of one is missing an ear which makes the pattern uneven shaped.

I've just bought a Badger and aim to set it up and get going this weekend. It looks to be a simple, easy to use brush.

Here's my Aztek tips, from a lot of experience.

Strip it down to clean it, every time. This includes pulling the tip out of the nozzle, the needle and spring out of the tip. Soak every thing in lacquer thinner every time. Just running thinner through doesn't clean the spring, which is the big flaw in the design, because it is downstream of the paint/air mix and is a marvelous collector of paint, as only a coil spring could do. DOH!

The body has all of the double action valves in it, and can't be taken apart, including access to the mixing chamber. So the only way to clean it is to run it immersed in about 8 oz. of lacquer thinner. Goodbye liver! And that's why the grips have come unglued.

Run at higher than usual pressure. The double action has pretty limited travel and otherwise you'll end up at full open all the time, which isn't much control.

I was never able to do any fine work or effects with it. That however may just be me. I'll see how the new a/b goes.

It works for both kinds of paint, though it does tend to spit acrylics a little.

I bought my Badger for $ 70 using a coupon at another site. I'm cheap, but that worked for me. Add hose, fittings and no doubt stuff I haven't bought yet, but it's still a reasonable price. I'm glad I'm switching because the trusty old Aztek actually fell apart.

Actually that's probably my biggest complaint. The Aztek cleaning protocol consumes large amounts of solvent, which then have to be disposed of. I have a whole setup with a spoils can, tight fitting lids on storage containers, a steel scraps can with a tight lid, and a mask. I'm hoping to cut way down on that nonsense.

One truism I suppose, is that whether one chooses to admit it or not, our tools do define our expression. Looking at my collection of aircraft, I have a real love for airliner type paint schemes. Lots of colors, crisp masked lines, clean looking aircraft. Hardly any weathered, camouflaged, faded birds in the bunch. Maybe that will change.

Just my

Under most circumstances, I'd say it's not the airbrush, it's the person holding it. HOWEVER, a decent airbrush, in your case, will almost certainly help. Like Bill, I've heard far more people swearing at Aztek airbrushes than by them. Based on that, I think they may fall into the "inadequate but marketable" category.

And acrylics are the future. They are very different from enamels.

But the variables will never go away, you'll just get used to them. That's why airbrushing is 70% science, 20% technology, and 60% art.…Just do the math………

Thanks for the replies, everyone!   I think down the line a Badger 100LG and acrylics may be in my future.  I've got a Iwata air compressor that works well, and it has attachments for several different models. 

I'm also looking at the Iwata Revolution family, specifically the HP-CR or -C.

IMHO the Aztek airbrushes are only good for holding parts while you airbrush them with a real airbrush.

I really never understood the gripes with the Aztec airbrushes; and as a beginner brush, I'd suggest them over anything else; simply that if you mess it up, break the tip, damage the needle, you buy a whole new tip for $5-10 and you're good to go. I never bothered spraying enamels through it, just too messy to clean up; I always stuck to acrylics only, and that was it. The key, as pointed out above, is to really just take the tip off, and leave it soaked in paint thinner (for acrylics I just use Windex) for several hours, rinse complete, and that's it.

Messing with so many variables? The brush just doesn't give you THAT much control, so I don't know what it has to do with your inconsistency. Practice with the paint ratio; it took me a while to see what general consistency worked with the brush, and which tip I was using. Now, I have to go through that again with new ABs, but hey, that's just part of the learning curve of ANY airbrush I think.

I used an Aztek for a many years...it was my first airbrush as well. I thought I got good results with it but it was very inconsistent and troublesome to use. I got to where I would strip down the tips to make sure they were completely clean before I would use it again. I got really good at taking those things apart and putting them back together. I normally used enamels with it but made the switch to acrylics while I had this brush. Then one day it just stop working so instead of sending it in for a free replacement...back when they had the life time guarantee....I brought a Iwata HP-CS and boy what a difference! Easier to use...more consistent… smoother coats of paints....and I find it easier to take care of than the old Aztek. When I look back at the old builds where I used the Aztek you can see the difference.

I don't have any experience with the Badger models but definitly recommend the Iwata series.

Now that I'm using a modern top feed airbrush, cleaning my old Aztek was a bit of a pain in the neck.

The Aztek design was probably great when it first came out 15-20 years ago. 

But airbrush companies have really made an effort to simplify the cleaning process which was a major reason people went with the Aztek in the first place.  For me at least.

I tried 10 yrs with Azteks then bought a couple of good (Olympos & Grex) 'metal' airbrushes. THE VERY FIRST time I used the first one it worked perfectly, as did the other one.  thinking this was because they were quite expensive I bought a VERY cheap (£20 British pounds) Chinese job from Ebay and it is, for what we modellers put through them, just as good so I recommend trying one.  you will hopefully be converted.  regards JD

I know some folks that have had very good luck with the Aztec. But for me, trying to learn how to airbrush with an Aztec was about the most aggravating thing I've ever done by choice.

Tony

I set up my Badger Thursday night and have been painting ever since. Loyalty aside, I now realize that my Aztek was a total POS. So worth the change!

I use quite a few airbrushes depending on what I'm doing. I use an Aztek A7778 as well as a Model Master and my most favorite every, the Sotar 20 20. Nothing beats the 20 20 for fine detail work. I dont have any problem with the Aztek. Try not to over think it and I think you will do just fine. What type compressor do you use?

I use a Iwata Silver Jet.  It hasn't given me any problems, but it doesn't have a line filter that fits the Aztek. 

Last night I nearly destroyed a weeks worth of effort.  After a so-so effort on the shell in one color, I cleaned the brush (thoroughly) and switched to a narrower nozzle for some detail work.  I tightened it the correct amount, used the same paint and...disaster.  Thin runs everywhere.  Efforts to change the compressor psi and distance to model all proved ineffective.

Now I have to wait for it to dry and start sanding...grrr.

This is what started my original rant about the variableness of the product. A change of nozzle and suddenly everything is garbage.  It just shouldn't be.

That was one of the problems I found. Those tips do vary a bit and you need to back off that little finger dial before changing tips and readjust to the new one. On any other airbrush the needle is normally closed. The tips on an Aztec are normally open and you adjust them closed with the dial on top of the brush. The dial adjusts the plunger in the body of the brush that touches the back of the needle, needle extension, whatever.  If that extension sticks out a little further on the new tip then it can jam the needle in the plastic tip when you tighten it. Then it won't spray at all. It may pop loose when you pull the trigger but once you get it loose, the hole is bigger than it was before. It may stick every time you release the trigger and you may not know what's going on. If that extension is shorter on the new tip then the needle is closer to open and for the same trigger position you end up with more paint flow.

And when I say you, I'm not directing that at you personally stcat.

Tony

Thanks for the info, wingman.  I'll play a little bit.  The way it's going, I'm accumulating practice plastic at an amazing rate! 

exactly my experience

I drove a Badger for years until it just needed more parts than I was willing to buy when my better half gave me a shiny new Aztek for Xmas. After all I had heard about them (built by modelers for modelers) I was pretty excited. Well, after painting, stripping, re-painting, re-stripping, re-painting again, re-stripping again, -- I just gave up and went out looking for another Badger. As it turnd out I got a sweet deal on a Paasche and havn't looked back. Ya, some folks swear by them but most swear at them. I reckon it's one of those things where you either do great with it, or fail miserably. btw, I have a hardly used Aztec with a handfull of tips for sale if anyone else wants to try it lol.

rrmmodeler

I used an Aztek for a many years...it was my first airbrush as well. I thought I got good results with it but it was very inconsistent and troublesome to use. I got to where I would strip down the tips to make sure they were completely clean before I would use it again. I got really good at taking those things apart and putting them back together. I normally used enamels with it but made the switch to acrylics while I had this brush. Then one day it just stop working so instead of sending it in for a free replacement...back when they had the life time guarantee....I brought a Iwata HP-CS and boy what a difference! Easier to use...more consistent… smoother coats of paints....and I find it easier to take care of than the old Aztek. When I look back at the old builds where I used the Aztek you can see the difference.

I don't have any experience with the Badger models but definitly recommend the Iwata series.  

This is the same route that I took.  When I first got the Aztek - I was pleased at finally being able to airbrush  my models.  I painted many of them with it and was pleased with the results.  Then I started having problems with it and got tired of buying new tips for it.  Bought an Iwata HP-CS and have never regretted it.  For me it just seems easier to use.  The only drawback with it that I have found concerns the price for rplacement parts.  After seeing that a replacement nozzle runs about $24.00 at the local Hobby Lobby, I am VERY careful when cleaning it.

jschlechty

rrmmodeler:

I used an Aztek for a many years...it was my first airbrush as well. I thought I got good results with it but it was very inconsistent and troublesome to use. I got to where I would strip down the tips to make sure they were completely clean before I would use it again. I got really good at taking those things apart and putting them back together. I normally used enamels with it but made the switch to acrylics while I had this brush. Then one day it just stop working so instead of sending it in for a free replacement...back when they had the life time guarantee....I brought a Iwata HP-CS and boy what a difference! Easier to use...more consistent… smoother coats of paints....and I find it easier to take care of than the old Aztek. When I look back at the old builds where I used the Aztek you can see the difference.

I don't have any experience with the Badger models but definitly recommend the Iwata series.  

 

This is the same route that I took.  ............The only drawback with it that I have found concerns the price for rplacement parts.  After seeing that a replacement nozzle runs about $24.00 at the local Hobby Lobby, I am VERY careful when cleaning it.

That $24 is before the 40% off coupon. They have one this week if you want a backup nozzle.

I got a set of 0.5 mm nozzle/needel/cap set from Hobby Lobby. It cost less than $20 total. I found the Iwata parts is cheaper to me than most other brands because I can get the Iwata Eclipse parts locally at HL. The saving from the 40% coupon and no shipping make the difference.

Keilau,

THanks for the idea!  So far, I've been very careful when cleaning and handling my AB, but if and when the time comes to replace any of the parts, you can bet I'll use that 40% off coupon!  Of course, the way my luck runs, when I bend the needle or something, they won't print any coupons for acouple of months or so....

Have you had to replace any parts on your IWATA yet?  Do they just naturally wear out over time?  If so, maybe I should start buying those parts in advance while I have access to the coupons.

jschlechty

Keilau,

THanks for the idea!  So far, I've been very careful when cleaning and handling my AB, but if and when the time comes to replace any of the parts, you can bet I'll use that 40% off coupon!  Of course, the way my luck runs, when I bend the needle or something, they won't print any coupons for acouple of months or so....

Have you had to replace any parts on your IWATA yet?  Do they just naturally wear out over time?  If so, maybe I should start buying those parts in advance while I have access to the coupons.

I have had the HP-CS less than 2 years and did not use it enough to wear anything out yet. Please, see my post on how I do the cleaning of the CS. If you feel (slightly bend) the Iwata needle, you will find it more springy than many others.

From other posts at the ARC and Airbrushtech forums, the Iwata nozzle and needle are less prone to damage than some other brands despite the very slender needle design. The HL coupon appears every other week most of the time, so I am not too concerned about it. The Iwata airbrush does not need extra care. But all airbrushes are delicate instruments that should be treated with respect. You will do fine.

I got the Eclipse 0.5 mm nozzle set for painting larger scale models. It still has more detailing than many other nozzle of similar size. It can serve as the backup if an accidental damage should happen.